Total newbie - thanks for reading/advising

[rambler]

Wow thanks again Azzork! so helpful!
Based on your suggestions I am going to:
1) Go back and re-read all of the detachment info / threads
2) Be friendly, upbeat, etc. Engage her in light conversation only, be empathetic to any emotional topics SHE raises, and do my part to help w/ domestic stuff but not ramp it up to a higher level.
3) Go to the MC session and LISTEN like crazy

I'm felling a lot clearer on this now!
One more thing....PHYSICAL AFFECTION....

I normally give her a hug and kiss when I leave/get home from work, kiss goodnight, and playful stuff (butt smack) periodically, hold hands/touch hands or feet in bed, and 'make a move' a couple times a week (historically gets positive response about 75% of the time, leading to sex).

Since the conversation last Saturday, I've not initiated ANY physical contact whatsoever - I've basically 'gone dark' on the physical front (which is a 180 for me - testing it out). SHE gave me a butt smack on Sunday, but I didn't acknowledge it.

Should I continue to forego initiating physical contact of any kind, or should I treat this the same as the detaching we're discussing, i.e. maybe a kiss / hug goodbye/goodnight but not making any moves for sex or flirting other than responding to any that SHE initiates?

Kind of feel ridiculous asking this question but it's a real blurry area for me.

[rambler]

THANKS Cadet !!!!! will do!

[sandi2]

Welcome to the community. Don't worry about long posts, I broke protocol a long time ago. Also, don't worry about learning so much jargon, etc. Nobody comes any greener than I was.

Does your W know that you suspect her A? If not, don't say anything about it, yet. Confrontation, alone, solves nothing. If you do get proof, do not reveal your sources, no matter what she says. Most WW's look right at the proof and deny the truth.

Without confronting her about the message itself, I told her I just wanted to check in, since we hadn’t talked about our relationship in depth since stopping couples therapy, and see how she was feeling now, a year later, about our marriage.

It will be tempting to check her about how she feels, but don't ask anything regarding the relationship. The wider the opening you give her, the more bashing and blaming you'll get.

What she told me turned my world upside down! She said ILYBNILWY. When asked why she was still with me, she replied b/c she’s not so unhappy as to warrant disrupting our family unit. When I told her I thought she was happier, etc. since we had therapy, she stated she is happier now than she was a year ago, and the reason is that she cares less now about me and what I think of her. She then said that I have been awesome and she has been very happy with the changes I’ve made since our therapy a year ago, and that I’m a really great husband “on paper” but she’s just not feeling 100% connected, and not any more connected since the changes were made.

I cannot imagine how that must have made you feel. I have several questions for you. Did you make any decisions based on what she had to say? Have you done anything differently, since she told you? Do you understand "why" or "how" she could say you were a great H on paper, but that she's not feeling any more connected? Who is to blame for her not feeling any more connected after all your hard work to make the changes you thought she wanted?

Monday, my DB coach advised me that it sounded like a WAW situation with perhaps a little MLC (on her end – i.e. new career), and that I should act lovingly detached, upbeat, and friendly, and not say ILY. I did this when I got home and admittedly it did seem to confuse her b/c I think she was expecting me to be acting sullen or depressed. She said she had called our therapist from a year ago, and had scheduled a session. I, somewhat dismissivly replied, “OK, but do you think that really helped us last time?” She didn’t really respond. I had pleasant conversation w/ her (light) and was upbeat and detached the rest of the evening.

How would you describe detaching?

This weekend is her birthday, and prior to this latest development I had ordered her a custom gold & diamond necklace which was rather expensive. For her birthday weekend, we are travelling out of town with 2 other couples and have rented a house together. I’m acting as though there is no issue or problem, and keeping a smile on my face.

Again, let me ask how you describe detaching?

If I continue acting detached, I feel that I am going against the change that she’s repeatedly requested – more connection. Will being detached work for me in this instance or against me?

What are you actually doing to give her the impression you are detached and she isn't getting what she wanted? What do you see as detaching?

W is the one who proactively has scheduled a therapy session next Monday. I believe this to be a good sign that she wants to work on the marriage, and perhaps has decided to place some priority on it. Shall I take this as a good sign, or should I respond differently?

It is not a "sign" of anything. She told you how she feels after she told you about the app't. Right? Don't respond at all. Don't bring it up, don't ask anything.

W talks to her friends about our relationship more than she talks to me about it. I almost feel like a total outsider with no insight into my own situation. Do I bring this up, or let it ride for now?

She justifies herself to her friends. Do NOT bring it up. To her, you are not only an outsider, but her enemy. You need to accept something. You won't understand but you need to accept it. This woman is not the girl your married. She has changed. The dynamics of the relationship has changed. You cannot make her love you. You cannot make her change. You cannot control her. So, don't try. I don't say this to discourage you, but to warn you to prepare yourself. This is more serious than a couple who is simply trying to "improve" their MR. Even if she hasn't asked for a divorce, she has no feelings for you. What does that tell you?

Stick around, and we'll help you.

I'm not planning on further investigating or even asking her about her possible affair. Honestly I'm not sure if it would make any difference if I did find out, other than increase her guilt, which I'm not trying to do. Is this the correct view at this time?

If you don't want to know, then that's up to you. Asking her accomplishes nothing, except it warns her to go deeper undercover (if she's actually having an A). It won't necessarily cause her more guilt. You are comparing her to the girl you married. She's not that girl anymore. Once the cheater knows that you know, it opens a whole new can of nasty worms. Only you can decide what you want to know and not know.

Don't let my post discourage you. I was once a wayward wife in an A. This board helped save me and my marriage. What I tell you will mostly from the viewpoint of a wife much like yours. The majority here are LBS, just like you, and they will support and offer you comfort. Don't give up hope.

[rambler]

Thanks SO MUCH sandi2 !!! I've read lots of your posts and honored you would take the time to advise me!! Responses to your Qs below...

I have several questions for you. Did you make any decisions based on what she had to say?

Based on what she had to say, I decided I needed to buy and read DR and hire a DB coach to advise me, as I am unsure how to proceed.

Have you done anything differently, since she told you?

Since she told me, what I have done differently is: Not bring up our relationship, act largely unaffected, and act positive and happy around her. I also have stopped initiating all physical contact with her (see my questions about that in my prior post - and please feel free to chime in!). I have also stopped complimenting her, calling her pet names, and saying ILY.

Do you understand "why" or "how" she could say you were a great H on paper, but that she's not feeling any more connected?

I'm not sure I fully understand why she would say "I'm a great H on paper" - but what I believe she meant was that I was doing all of the right things (actions) in responding to her prior requests, but she simply was not feeling in love with me.

Who is to blame for her not feeling any more connected after all your hard work to make the changes you thought she wanted?

Not sure it's a "blame" thing here. who can attribute blame to a feeling? I cannot control her feelings, only she can. I can only control MY feelings (to some extent - getting better at that each day!) and MY actions.

How would you describe detaching?

Originally (2 days ago) I thought detaching was acting distant and not engaging. Now through the help of some responses to this thread, as well as further reading on the topic, I understand it to be detaching from the ability for W to affect my emotions (tough!), and detaching from the concept that I can 'fix' her feelings toward me through pursuit. I'm still not even sure if this is correct so feel free to opine.

What are you actually doing to give her the impression you are detached and she isn't getting what she wanted?

Right now I'm acting 'as if' I am unaffected by her statements - I am not acting sullen or depressed (as she would expect). I am not following her around the house or even paying much attention to her - not being unfriendly, but not initiating anything other than light conversation. I am also not initiating any physical contact (a big 180 for me). I am not trying to alert her of my emotional availability by inquiring about her emotions. Basically, I'm not acting like anything major is going wrong at all.

She told you how she feels after she told you about the app't. Right?

No, actually she only told me how she feels this last Saturday when I inquired. When she saw my original reaction (see 1st post), which also consisted of me saying that I did not want to live out my life in a 1-sided relationship, she took it upon herself to schedule the MC appointment, and told me about it this past Monday evening.

I hope this helps shed some more light on the sitch for you. Again, a million thanks for your thoughtful response!!!

[rambler]

Sandi2, I forgot to answer one of your questions in my last response:

Does your W know that you suspect her A?

I did ask her if there was OM about 6 months ago, she said no, and I haven't said anything since. So, I do not believe she knows I am currently suspicious of an A.

[rambler]

Can anyone offer some insight to this question from one of my earlier posts:

PHYSICAL AFFECTION....

I normally give W a hug and kiss when I leave/get home from work, kiss goodnight, and playful stuff (butt smack) periodically, hold hands/touch hands or feet in bed, and 'make a move' a couple times a week (historically gets positive response about 75% of the time, leading to sex).

Since the conversation last Saturday, I've not initiated ANY physical contact whatsoever - I've basically 'gone dark' on the physical front (which is a 180 for me - testing it out). SHE gave me a butt smack on Sunday, but I didn't acknowledge it.

Should I continue to forego initiating physical contact of any kind, or should I treat this the same as the detaching we're discussing, i.e. maybe a kiss / hug goodbye/goodnight but not making any moves for sex or flirting other than responding to any that SHE initiates?

Kind of feel ridiculous asking this question but it's a real blurry area for me.

[Cadet]

MY general inclination is - NO

It is pursuit.


Does she pursue YOU?

[Azzork]

Sandi2, I forgot to answer one of your questions in my last response:

Does your W know that you suspect her A?

I did ask her if there was OM about 6 months ago, she said no, and I haven't said anything since. So, I do not believe she knows I am currently suspicious of an A.

Do you believe she would say "YES" if there was an OM?

Also, I agree with Cadet...I would stop with most all of the physical stuff unless she starts to pursue you.

[rambler]

Thank you Cadet & Azzork !!!

Azzork, I guess I wouldn't expect her to say "YES" if asked if there was an OM.
But when I asked, it was many many months before discovering the DB strategies, so I'm definitely learning lots now.

I'm going to refrain from any physical affection unless she pursues / initiates it.
thanks for all of the fantastic advise it really helps more than you know!

[Cadet]

If you want to get into more advanced information read the pursuit and distance thread very closely,
(in the homework)
especially the first post and my posts and quotes.