Hello I am a first time poster to this forum, and admittedly a bit overwhelmed by all of the abbreviations & jargon, so please forgive any misuse of such while I’m still learning!
I have read DR and also watched several of Michelle’s DB videos on YouTube over the last year. Love everything about both!
I’ve spent the last three days searching and reading through 100s of threads and topics on this forum and have been SO impressed by the knowledge, wisdon and assistance offered by many here. I am seeking advice.
Me: 39 W: 37 S6 S4 Married 8 yrs Together 16 yrs
I believe I am the LBS in a WAW situation. My W and I still live together, we are not separated, and W has not asked for a D, nor do I believe she wants one. I do suspect she is having an A, but only have evidence that alludes to it, nothing concrete, nor am I prying or investigating.
My sitch is as follows:
About 5 years ago, W began to disclose unhappiness in our M due to a lack of emotional connection. 3 years ago she suggested we see a couples therapist, which I happily agreed to. After 6 sessions we both agreed to seek a different therapist as the current one did not seem to offer any solutions. We saw a new therapist, specializing in Imago Relationship Therapy (created by Harville Hendrix PhD via the book “Getting The Love You Want”), for 10 sessions.
W was open and participatory during our 10, 1hr sessions, however did not complete any of the homework assignments or practice any of the techniques taught to us, while I emphatically embraced the reading and conversational exercises assigned. Essentially she did not participate outside of the therapy sessions. During the sessions she disclosed her unhappiness being due to 1) she felt I was not as emotionally available as she desired, 2) she desired more help with the child care duties, and 3) she didn’t feel as though I viewed her as an ‘equal’ partner. #1 was rather vague , #2 was fairly easy to pinpoint specifics, and #3 was left vague as well.
I worked hard and made many changes based on the requests of W during our sessions, which she acknowledged both to me directly, and during our later sessions, and she seemed, and verbally acknowledged, she was much happier. She suggested we discontinue our therapy, and only go back as needed. We never returned, and our last session was 1 year ago.
During this period, W was also seeing her own therapist, 1-on-1, who is more of a ‘New Age’ type therapist. Crystals, Oils, Meditation, etc. and not particularly focused on solutions, but rather female independence.
W stopped complaining, however seemed to grow more distant (as described exactly in DR as WAW). Intimacy grew more infrequent, and she placed a priority on being with / talking with / texting her friends, and eventually I grew concerned that I was still initiating the changes sought by W, but feeling more and more like I was in a 1 sided relationship.
Over the past 3 months, as she has been training for and starting a new career (her first, having never worked, and always being supported by me, which I am happy to do BTW!), she has been increasingly mean and seems to snap at me for the most minor things. When asked about it, she explained her behavior away as stress related to her new career and stepping out of her comfort zone for the first time, and her insecurities about it. I offered encouraging words and support, helping her craft a business plan and discussing sales techniques I used to teach as part of a prior job. This calmed her down and she said she was very grateful for that. I have also been proactively doing more around the house to help take some responsibilities off her plate. I even cleaned out and organized her closet while she was out with her girlfriends, something she has wanted to do for weeks but has been putting off.
Last weekend, we watched a movie about a distressed woman who was in an unfulfilling marriage, and was cheating on her H with several OM. I later accidentally found a message meant for her therapist (mistakenly sent to me), saying that she found it very ironic that I picked out the movie (randomly) and that the whole time we were watching it, she was feeling (insert wide eyed blushing, straight-faced emoticon). Whoa! Not sure if that means OM is involved or not, but regardless, not a good thing either way!
Without confronting her about the message itself, I told her I just wanted to check in, since we hadn’t talked about our relationship in depth since stopping couples therapy, and see how she was feeling now, a year later, about our marriage.
What she told me turned my world upside down! She said ILYBNILWY. When asked why she was still with me, she replied b/c she’s not so unhappy as to warrant disrupting our family unit. When I told her I thought she was happier, etc. since we had therapy, she stated she is happier now than she was a year ago, and the reason is that she cares less now about me and what I think of her. She then said that I have been awesome and she has been very happy with the changes I’ve made since our therapy a year ago, and that I’m a really great husband “on paper” but she’s just not feeling 100% connected, and not any more connected since the changes were made.
I was/am crushed. I didn’t know how to react. I was deeply hurt and confused. The next morning (Sunday) I had a tough morning and began to break down a little when recalling the conversation. I told her I needed to get out of the house for a bit b/c I didn’t want the kids to see me so distressed. I went to my office, reflected on what had transpired, and scheduled a DB coaching session for Monday. She texted me asking if I was ok and stating she was worried about me. I replied I was ok just had a rough morning and would be home soon. That evening I was sullen and withdrawn, and didn’t really converse much.
Monday, my DB coach advised me that it sounded like a WAW situation with perhaps a little MLC (on her end – i.e. new career), and that I should act lovingly detached, upbeat, and friendly, and not say ILY. I did this when I got home and admittedly it did seem to confuse her b/c I think she was expecting me to be acting sullen or depressed. She said she had called our therapist from a year ago, and had scheduled a session. I, somewhat dismissivly replied, “OK, but do you think that really helped us last time?” She didn’t really respond. I had pleasant conversation w/ her (light) and was upbeat and detached the rest of the evening.
This weekend is her birthday, and prior to this latest development I had ordered her a custom gold & diamond necklace which was rather expensive. For her birthday weekend, we are travelling out of town with 2 other couples and have rented a house together. I’m acting as though there is no issue or problem, and keeping a smile on my face. However, I’d love some advice since I have some questions prior to my next DB coaching session:
1) Do I give her the birthday gift? I’ve seen similar questions posted in multiple threads here, and the answer is usually “as long as your not expecting anything or hoping to gain brownie points” – which I’m not. 2) If I continue acting detached, I feel that I am going against the change that she’s repeatedly requested – more connection. Will being detached work for me in this instance or against me? 3) W is the one who proactively has scheduled a therapy session next Monday. I believe this to be a good sign that she wants to work on the marriage, and perhaps has decided to place some priority on it. Shall I take this as a good sign, or should I respond differently? 4) W talks to her friends about our relationship more than she talks to me about it. I almost feel like a total outsider with no insight into my own situation. Do I bring this up, or let it ride for now? 5) I'm not planning on further investigating or even asking her about her possible affair. Honestly I'm not sure if it would make any difference if I did find out, other than increase her guilt, which I'm not trying to do. Is this the correct view at this time?
I hope I did not breach protocol here with this very long post. I really appreciate any insight from the esteemed members here. I love my W deeply, she is the center of my universe and I want to fight to win her love back. I wish I felt the love from her that I used to. I haven’t seen that smile and look in her eye, or any affection, for ages. We still sleep in the same bed, and have a relatively good sex life, but the love just isn’t there anymore. Am I on the right track to revival? Thanks a million for any feedback!!!
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
don't sweat the length of the posts, electrons are cheap. people will read. first thing is read all the homework and read others threads to get moving.
I am sorry you are here, but glad you found this place.
Thank you Cadet & Zephyr for your responses. I have read DR as well as the homework threads provided by Cadet. Some awesome stuff there! actually I had read them prior to posting as I'd seen Cadet's similar reply to other newcomers. It's remarkable how many people struggle with the same common themes. Any feedback on my numbered questions from my original post would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks to all!
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thank you Cadet & Zephyr for your responses. I have read DR as well as the homework threads provided by Cadet. Some awesome stuff there! actually I had read them prior to posting as I'd seen Cadet's similar reply to other newcomers. It's remarkable how many people struggle with the same common themes. Any feedback on my numbered questions from my original post would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks to all!
Here are my thoughts...but I'm certainly no vet.
1) Do I give her the birthday gift? I’ve seen similar questions posted in multiple threads here, and the answer is usually “as long as your not expecting anything or hoping to gain brownie points” – which I’m not. you CAN give it to her. I wouldn't expect much. I probably wouldn't get much as your already going on a trip. Not sure if you can return this gift. But I wouldn't think you will get much thanks for it.
2) If I continue acting detached, I feel that I am going against the change that she’s repeatedly requested – more connection. Will being detached work for me in this instance or against me? read the homework again! Being detached does NOT mean to ignore her, to be unloving, to be distant. None of that. It means yo separate YOUR emotional well being from HER actions, words, emotions, etc. so no, I don't view being detached as "more of the same"
3) W is the one who proactively has scheduled a therapy session next Monday. I believe this to be a good sign that she wants to work on the marriage, and perhaps has decided to place some priority on it. Shall I take this as a good sign, or should I respond differently? you can go. You may learn something(s). But a lot of WASs use MC as a way to say "I tried." I wouldn't squint to look for signs. If she wants to rebuild your M, you'll know
4) W talks to her friends about our relationship more than she talks to me about it. I almost feel like a total outsider with no insight into my own situation. Do I bring this up, or let it ride for now? what EXACTLY would you say? You can't control who she talks to or what she talks about. I don't see any outcome where doing this benefits you.
5) I'm not planning on further investigating or even asking her about her possible affair. Honestly I'm not sure if it would make any difference if I did find out, other than increase her guilt, which I'm not trying to do. Is this the correct view at this time? theres mixed views on this. On the one hand, knowledge is powerful. Knowing that she's in an affair may change some of the ways you may want to act. There's definitely a difference in the WAS who is "done" from the WS that is high on an A drug. On the other hand, the constant fact checking and snooping will drive you crazy, drive her away, and may in fact CAUSE an A. In my opinion, I'd back off, but that's just my opinion.
This was such a helpful post!! So glad I found this site. I want to call my WAH and yell and swear at him because I am so hurt and so mad. But instead, I'm reading some of these post, and figured I might as well do something with the rest of my evening, like call my best girlfriend over. It's safe to cry and rant in front of her. H doesn't need to hear from me at all tonight. The site is a lifesaver! I hope it will also be a marriage saver, but whatever happens in that situation, I myself can still all right
M: 48 H: 44 M: 2 / T: 7 My kids: S22, S18, S17, D12 H no kids of his own BD: 7/12/2015 / moved out same day Piecing 9/6/2015 Moved back in 10/2015
Thank you Cadet for sharing Wonka's post about sharing the DR book or this website. My DB Coach said not to offer up to share it, however if W inquired, I should share it. For now, I'll keep it to myself.
Thanks Azzork for your awesome feedback!!!! I guess I needed a little help on understanding what being "lovingly detached" means for my situation. My DB Coach said to be 'lovingly detached, friendly, and upbeat'. I'm struggling a little with understanding the correct way to act as in my mind there are some conflicting terms.
W desires more emotional connection, help w/ domestic tasks (kids, home, etc), and feeling like she's treated as an 'equal partner'. I've made real strides in this over the last year, as mentioned in my original post, and she's acknowledged, and a few days ago said that "I've been awesome" about those things.
Still, the situation seems to have worsened. SO....would continuing to do those things be 'more of the same', and therefor not what I should be doing?
Should I continue to engage her asking about her thoughts & feelings about her new job, friends, family, etc (but not asking about our M or relationship, obviously), as well as being attentive and affectionate toward her (hugs, greetings, kisses, flirting, etc - which is my usual behavior), and continuing to give extra effort trying to be super-husband / super-dad (which I've been doing for several months)?
OR..... should I simply be a happy guy, working on myself, being fun to be around, helpful, available to talk but not initiating deep conversations, and generally not trying too hard to be proactive in delivering these requested, and normally exhibited behaviors?
OR....some other way of acting day to day which I'm not thinking of?
Regarding #3) I've accepted her invitation for a MC session w/ our last therapist, which will be on Monday. Hopefully this will be helpful as she should disclose additional needs/wants/issues, so I can be more clued in and assist in my next DB Coaching session next week.
4)... you're completely right Azzork, I'll not intervene w/ her friends/family discussions, or even bring it up. Don't think there's any benefit to that currently.
5) I've decided to ignore the possible A for now. Azzork thanks for verifying my gut feel on this part, re: what to do.
I guess I needed a little help on understanding what being "lovingly detached" means for my situation. My DB Coach said to be 'lovingly detached, friendly, and upbeat'. I'm struggling a little with understanding the correct way to act as in my mind there are some conflicting terms. Read the detachment thread. A couple times. But in general, if she talks to you about problems or something, then you show empathy, you validate her feelings. Dont try to SOLVE them. Dont try to EXPLAIN them. Just let her know that you are "on her side."
W desires more emotional connection, help w/ domestic tasks (kids, home, etc), and feeling like she's treated as an 'equal partner'. I've made real strides in this over the last year, as mentioned in my original post, and she's acknowledged, and a few days ago said that "I've been awesome" about those things.
Still, the situation seems to have worsened. SO....would continuing to do those things be 'more of the same', and therefor not what I should be doing?
Should I continue to engage her asking about her thoughts & feelings about her new job, friends, family, etc (but not asking about our M or relationship, obviously), as well as being attentive and affectionate toward her (hugs, greetings, kisses, flirting, etc - which is my usual behavior), and continuing to give extra effort trying to be super-husband / super-dad (which I've been doing for several months)?
OR..... should I simply be a happy guy, working on myself, being fun to be around, helpful, available to talk but not initiating deep conversations, and generally not trying too hard to be proactive in delivering these requested, and normally exhibited behaviors?
OK...several questions in one here. She will not respect you any more if you suddenly become a housekeeper. You wont "win" her back by doing all of the household chores. Clean up after yourself. Clean common areas sometimes. But if youre scrubbing the toilet every other day, it isnt going to earn her respect or make her love you more.
As for emotional connection, you have to let her drive. You want to master being empathetic and validating as I said above. This is what BUILDS the emotional connection. Firing tons of questions at her is going to be seen as "trying too hard" or "too little too late". By the same token, trying to fix her problems is going to be seen as controlling. On the other hand, you are still living together and married. SO still be pleasant. Be upbeat. You can ask some general questions - how was your day? think it's going to rain? Pizza or pasta for dinner? etc. But you dont want to be asking her about emotional topics. Let her drive that bus.
OR....some other way of acting day to day which I'm not thinking of?
Regarding #3) I've accepted her invitation for a MC session w/ our last therapist, which will be on Monday. Hopefully this will be helpful as she should disclose additional needs/wants/issues, so I can be more clued in and assist in my next DB Coaching session next week. It's OK to go if she wants. You are still married, and as far as you know, shes not UNinterested in staying marriage. Just be prepared that it may not go as you think. Try to let her do most of the talking. STFU as much as humanly possible.
4)... you're completely right Azzork, I'll not intervene w/ her friends/family discussions, or even bring it up. Don't think there's any benefit to that currently. Im not sure theres any benefit EVER. Even IF they take "your side", she will just ditch them as friends.
5) I've decided to ignore the possible A for now. Azzork thanks for verifying my gut feel on this part, re: what to do.
I am really sorry youre here. I went through exactly same things youre doing and did every single possible thing opposite of what Im advising you to do. Im going to let you know that it didnt work out so well.
