Need advice for a WW who left Part 3

[dwh15]

As I think more about my sitch and the long, sorted history of WW, I really wonder if there is any chance we could ever be a complete family again. I mean, the trouble started almost 5 years ago, with what I now know to be the very first OM, in spite of her repeated denials. Since then, it has been a series of affairs, at least 4 OM that I can confirm, and possibly more I don't know about.

Woah! Well it is always possible, it's your choice when you want to quit standing, not hers. You can never have the same relationship you had before and you shouldn't seek that, your goal is a new relationship with a new you and new her. But 4 OM's, wow. It sounds like she has a lot of work to do to sort through why that is going on.

Umm...yeah. When I say 4, it includes the current OM who she is living with. There were 2 others in the past 5 years who I know about for sure, and another which I can't confirm but have strong suspicions based on what I have heard from friends who know both me and WW.

It's definitely a messed up situation. I mean, who does that? My W clearly has issues and is looking for something to make herself happy. I really don't think she was totally convinced on moving out this time, but she was getting pressure from OM to do it, and she finally caved. Funny enough, she was on the verge of leaving him just a few weeks ago, because she didn't feel he was giving her enough attention. Then he gave her the ILYBNILWY speech. So it's not looking like a sturdy foundation for anything long term, but who knows. She's sort of stuck now, since I made it very clear I wouldn't be letting her just march back into my house every time she hit a rough patch.

It's all so sad, since my W was NOTHING like this when we met. Even her own sisters say that. Nobody recognizes her. I hope and pray for her, that something hits her hard enough to recognize the issues in herself and seek help. But at this point, I think it's just as likely she moves onto yet another OM as it is she would want to work on things with me. I've made that a personal line of mine that I will not cross - if she moves to another OM after this, I will be immediately filing and no looking back. Sometimes I feel crazy even hanging on now, knowing the history. My family and friends keep pushing, telling me to get over it, I'm so much better off w/o her, etc. The same drill everyone prob gets in these situations. I don't think anyone realizes the amount of hurt and pain you go through.

So, in spite of the nasty history, I'm hanging in for now. I know that the outlook is bleak, but I'm doing it for me, my kids, and even my poor W, who I feel has a very rough life ahead if she continues down this path. I trust in God's plan and know that things will work out how they are met to be.

[CaliGuy]

dwh

Reading along ... I just wanted to chime in a bit here.

The 4OM thing, and the questions you have about " I really wonder if there is any chance we could ever be a complete family again" ... honestly no way do you have a chance at that until your W takes a step back and really decides to do some serious work. She is looking for a fix to her pain, not finding it with the OM's so she continues to cycle on to the 'next guy' and the rush a new A brings.... once she figures out this is an internal struggle is futile, only then will she have a chance to break out of this. YOU can do little to help her with this .. her journey and she has to figure it out on her own ... what you can do is become a better stronger man and set your personal boundaries on what you will/will not accept ... not only from her, but from anyone, Not to punish ... but something you most likely should have done YEARS ago. Keep in mind, when you do get to this point, set the boundary once and hold to it .. she will test it and you .. you must hold firm here and show her you are not going to give an inch. Remember Strength is attractive... Push-overs are not.

Second point ... you said:

I go back and forth every day lately about how long I need to hold out before filing. I had initially set a deadline of next April but I don't know if I can wait that long. Right now, think I'm leaning more towards late January, and see if there are any indications of regret or change.

You are basing your decisions on her actions ... you are not living YOUR life here with this mindset. Do you think W thought about what you might/might not do when she moved in with OM? Nope .... she fired you ... if you are waiting around and holding your breathe for her to show remorse .. you will turn purple and die. As far as filing for D .... dating .... all that stuff. I was there too, decided I was going to date just to get some mojo back, put myself out there. Went out a couple times, had a blast and could have easily pursued a relationship with a couple gals .... thing was, my heart was not in it ... was fun but not what I wanted. So I decided ... my life really was no different with or without W, I was not ready and till I felt I was .. no reason to file D for me. I gave her the $$ I felt was fair (Far more than what the state would ask) and I continued to work on myself. I got to a place where I did not want W back, not the W who was making my life hell .... nor did I really want the W who I had pre BD ... I deserved better. But I had to really change, become more secure and sit down and decide what I wanted for this next chapter of my life. I really dove into working on me and detached from W, she felt this in a big way.

When and if your W ever comes back to 'that table' .. the one where she says she will do anything .. you will have a list of non-negotiables ... not out of punishment .. but from a place of strength. Till then ... its really up to you ... you have some serious work to do for yourself right now regardless if you save the M, or you apply it to the next relationship .. either way you will be better off if you continue the mirror work now.

[dwh15]

dwh

When and if your W ever comes back to 'that table' .. the one where she says she will do anything .. you will have a list of non-negotiables ... not out of punishment .. but from a place of strength. Till then ... its really up to you ... you have some serious work to do for yourself right now regardless if you save the M, or you apply it to the next relationship .. either way you will be better off if you continue the mirror work now.

Great post and again, I agree with everything you say. I wasn't meaning to imply that my deadline for filing is dependent on WW. Right now, I'm not ready. In a few months, maybe I will be, maybe I won't. Guess I shouldn't even bother setting arbitrary deadlines that are months away, since I don't even know how I'll feel in a day or two, let alone next year.

About the dating, I know what you mean. I actually went on a single date with a very nice lady, but I just couldn't enjoy it. I was talking with a 2nd woman, but called that off immediately since I knew I was nowhere near ready. Some days I feel like I want to date, then others I realize I'm not even close. I guess that's as good an indicator as anything. When I reach a point where I consistently feel like I want to date, then it will be time to file. It may be a month, it may be a year. I'll know when I get there.

Also agree about my W needing some serious work on herself. No idea when or if she will reach that conclusion, but as you said, it has to be one of the non-negotiables. I truly don't believe she is capable of maintaining any long term R with anyone in her current mental state.

So point taken. I need to turn the lens back on me, and just keep improving myself. I feel like I've made a lot of good changes, but am sure I have a lot more work to do. Thanks for the encouragement.

[dwh15]

Feeling a little down again today, but not too bad. Been staying busy around the house. Decided one of my goals was going to be get my house in tip top shape. I've had months to do it, but just didn't have the motivation. So already spent 2 hours cleaning kitchen this morning. Gonna start working on each room of the house, one at a time. Start a new job in 2 weeks and my available hours are really going to shrink, so need to focus on it now.

Taking my kids to a minor league baseball game tonight. Should be a lot of fun. None of them have ever been before. I think they even shoot up fireworks at the end of the night. My W and I went last year, so it will probably trigger some memories and be bitter sweet for me, but I want to build positive memories with my boys. WW is supposed to be taking them out on a boat tomor afternoon with a friend of hers, so the kids have a couple of fun days planned.

I'm also seriously committed to getting in the best physical shape of my life. I've been running every other day, plus a lot of physical labor. Gonna start hitting the weights 2-3 times a week as well. It makes me feel good, and I would love to reach a point where I have a 6-pack of abs. I know that's a LOT of work, but would be nice to be in that good of shape for at least once in my life. I suppose it can't hurt with the ladies either.

Still missing WW pretty often, but it's not as crippling as before. I can usually keep working through it and don't get too depressed. I'm sad about the loss of a future between us, and the loss of a whole family for my kids. I don't know what the future holds but I really hope we all turn out happy and at peace.

[dwh15]

Went and filled out all the legal paperwork to start on the new job in 2 weeks. It's all official now, just waiting for the day. Leaving for the ball park in 30 minutes. Taking kids to their very first baseball game. It's minor league but should be fun for them.

No word from WW today at all. She typically goes lights out on days she isn't seeing the kids, which I suppose is good. Have thought about her a little, but find that keeping busy keeps her out of my head. Doing my best to keep active during the day and avoid the sad thoughts.

[MrBond]

Going through all of your posts, I might have missed it but did you ever detail your marital history? You say all the things went downhill after her first A. That's usually not the case. What were the problems and was was your part in the downfall? Not saying you were the reason for her A, but just be brutally honest with your contributions.

[dwh15]

Going through all of your posts, I might have missed it but did you ever detail your marital history? You say all the things went downhill after her first A. That's usually not the case. What were the problems and was was your part in the downfall? Not saying you were the reason for her A, but just be brutally honest with your contributions.

Yes, I've thought about all of that, and detailed some of it in previous posts. I can summarize here, and have been working on all of these issues. Basically, I took her for granted, in many ways.

1) I didn't really "listen". I would hear her but had a bad habit of trying to offer suggestions rather than just hear what she had to say.

2) I didn't help out around the house or with kids nearly as much as I should have. She probably felt like a single mom a lot of the time.

3) I didn't respect her time. We would make plans, and she would be sitting on me waiting to leave, sometimes for up to an hour, while I finished up something else I was doing. Usually something not very important, such as watching a show.

4) We slept in separate bedroom for the past 7-8 years. This wasn't malicious on my part. She had a snoring problem, and as hard as I tried, I just couldn't sleep next to her with that going on. It started out as me moving to the couch most of the time, but then got to the point she just slept in another room. I think this was a BIG issue for her. How badly I wish I had just bought ear muffs or tried to adjust to it.

5) She felt like I didn't respect her. Now, that isn't true but I know it's how she felt. Like I didn't think she was smart or capable, at least compared to myself. Part of that is low self-esteem I believe, but I should have done more to make her feel better about herself.

I think those are the big issues that I can identify. There may be more in her mind, but since she has refused to talk about it, hard to say. I have tried to correct every one of those issues in other relationships in my life, and feel that I am doing pretty well.

Sometimes I'll catch myself about to say something negative or snarky, and quickly eat a STFU smoothy. I respect everyone's time now and make sure to be early any time I've made a commitment to be somewhere. I make a concerted effort to really listen to people and hear what they are saying, all without passing judgement or offering advice, unless they specifically ask for it. I'm completely taking care of all the housework now, doing dishes, laundry, making meals, etc. I make an effort to talk with each of my kids every day and comfort them, boost their self-esteem, make them feel good about themselves.

There isn't much I can really do about the history with separate bedrooms, other than commit to myself that I will never allow that to happen again when I am in a committed relationship, whether it be with my current W or another woman. It was mean, disrespectful, and one of my biggest regrets.

Other than what I listed above, of course I'm working hard on GAL activities, hitting the gym regularly, trying to get the house in tip top shape, spending time with my kids, etc. I feel like I've come a long way in the past few months, but need to keep working on it so that this all becomes part of who I am. I never plan to be the man I was again; I don't like that person and can understand in many ways why my W didn't like him either.

[dwh15]

Still having a hard time with missing WW. Don't really feel depressed as much, but having a lot of regrets about my contributions to the breakdown of our M. I really had to restrain myself from sending her a TM this morning just to check in. I am doing a lot better when out and busy, and starting to actually enjoy life in those moments again. But I can't help but feel sad that WW is not getting a chance to enjoy the activities that we should have both been doing all along. I still hope that some day I get a chance to show her what it could, and should, be like in a healthy M.

[dwh15]

Went from missing WW to being angry in just a few minutes. She made plans for the kids at 1pm today w/o saying a word to me. Typically she doesn't pick them up til nearly 7pm. And as a bonus, she wanted to know if I could send them some money for lunch. This all with less than an hour's notice. Apparently she had told S18 and expected him to relay the message. I sent a TM that from now on, she needed to communicate directly with me regarding changes in the normal schedule. That lead to a bunch of TMs back and forth, and we finally agreed to just sit down and come up with a different schedule. We're going to formalize it in writing and both sign it. Was her idea but I immediately agreed, which I think surprised her. All along, I've been going by what she asked for, but then it's always my fault when she makes unexpected plans and the kids choose to stay with me because I'm doing something they prefer.

I think it's time to just formalize the plan for time with kids. Need to have set pick-up and drop-off times. Getting sick of her thinking I have some elaborate plot to keep the kids away from her, just because I'm trying to do fun things with them.

[dwh15]

After thinking about the custody arrangement some more, think I'm going to start enforcing the overnights at WW's house. She keeps saying how she wants and expects 50% custody, but hasn't spent more than a few hours/week with the boys in months. She's been living the fantasy kid-free party girl lifestyle. Honestly, I don't think she really wants the kids there, just the support money that goes along with 50% custody. So I'm gonna give it to her. Up to now, we've been giving the kids the option of whether to stay or not, and they almost always choose to be here with me.

Going forward, I'm not letting that be an option. I actually prefer that they be home with me, but I'm sick of being the excuse that they don't spend time with mom. She needs to get a fresh taste of dealing with what it's like to have boys fighting with each other every few minutes, making all the meals over a 24-hour period, getting them baths, washing clothes, etc. Right now, I'm doing 95% of the work. My gut feeling is that it's going to overwhelm her and she'll be asking to go back to what we had. But at least then it will be her choice, and she can quit whining about how I'm in a competition to make myself look better than her to the kids, and that's why they always choose to be with me.