Hanging in there

[asitis]

I think friendly rather than sweet might be your 180. H is going to read sweet as a ploy. He'll still notice friendly, although I suspect he wants to read you as demeaning & critical.

I also suspect that you are asking him to do things (perhaps pull at least some of his weight around the house?), and these are things he doesn't want to do. While you should not back off on that if he is going to live there, you might think about if you nag him about it or not. If you do, then think of other ways to get the job done. Perhaps a list he can check off. Others may have creative ways.

You have tended to be too accommodating IMHO, so I actually think more boundaries and less actions (not words) that indicate you are tired of this and are moving in another direction might appropriate.

Cancelling the MC may be one of those steps. You've been trying to get him to talk more. He doesn't want to and punishes you when he does. That's not helping either of you. I suspect he is still feeling pursued through your wanting to talk and work on things through talk. Think about whether this is so.

Have a good time w/ all your activities & the weekend w/ the kids. When you get back from that see if you can think of some outside the home activities that are just for you and social in nature maybe.

[gonegrl]

Thanks Asitis. I will think about the MC. It is hard for me because it is the only time we really talk. And I think it is a good outlet for H right now, maybe not for me though. Definitely not for me.

The problem isn't nagging, or helping out around the house, H does a lot around the house and we do well with those types of discussions. It is more anything that is emotional or even just random small talk.

I think the problem, and this is getting deep here, goes back to how he was raised. He views any kind of disagreement as "being set up" or tricked and tends to think there is a hidden agenda. He half- communicates, will give very limited info and then if I ask for more or seem confused he will react as though I am criticizing. He runs from any emotion.

I also think he is lonely and doesn't know how to appropriately reach out and connect, so therefore he withdraws. He seems very happy when I pursue or initiate plans or contact.

I just got back from IC. My IC seems to think I am doing a good job with all of this, and with handling my emotional needs. She said if I didn't have occasional emotional outbursts she would be concerned that I was not in touch with the severity of the problems in my life- my kids and my H. She said she thinks I am strong and that I am holding it together very well. And of course a married person is going to have a strong emotional bond and need for connection with their S, it is not a weakness or something to work to sever.

She did say I should focus on my children and my own happiness and she suggested that H gets better treatment for his depression. I told her I was working on my communication skills- I might not be as pleasant as I think I am. She said that is good, but she thinks I am blaming myself for too much.

[gonegrl]

Me again. I am away with my children for a long weekend and completely distracted by my problems. Going out in a few minutes for a hike, and then dinner with family later- so maybe that will help.

I read Sandi's rules again and realized I need to fine tune my DB skills. I am doing well 90% of the time, maybe 95%, but not taking it all the way.

I've got to do a better job with putting a pleasant expression on my face and not taking the bait and reacting emotionally. Which mostly happens in counseling, because we are talking for no more than a minute or so at a time outside of counseling.

I also need to redefine what is pursuing vs. not pursuing. H wants me to sit with him while he works. I will, in small doses. I will show interest in his work, ask him what he is working on, a few follow up questions, sit quietly and check email and FB with him while he works, and then get up and do my own thing. Maybe give him 20 minutes a day of that "calm and interested" but not emotional attention. I won't look at it as pursuing because he asked me for this.

H interprets every single thing I say as negative, critical or emotional. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I am shocked at what he is perceiving to be those things. I am going to deal with this one in MC. I am going to bring it up instead of waiting on him to start listing all the ways I screwed up. I will say "I want to be more approachable, and I don't always see things the same way. Maybe you (MC) can help us work out a solution? Maybe a code word or something H can use to let me know if he starts to feel attacked? Maybe something I can say to help de-escalate ? " We are paying this MC a ton of $, he should have something useful to contribute to this, I would think this is a fairly common problem. Although maybe not to the extent that H is worked up about it.

I truly do want to be approachable and do not want to be a negative person.

The last thing bouncing around my head right now is texting vs calling. H texts me. I think texting is fine for "landed at the airport" or "picked up the kids" type conversations, but he will text me things like "How was your trip?" Now, I am VERY happy that he is texting me at all, a month ago I wasn't even getting texts, but I started responding with "good, call me if you'd like to talk about it" and he usually calls. The advantage to this is that I can take a deep breath before he calls and get a better PMA. And I always "end the conversation" first.

Those are my thoughts right now. Going out for a hike. Hoping to get all of this out of my head for a few hours. I was doing so well for about 2 weeks, but now I am obsessing too much again. I guess that is normal. And although I am backsliding, still nowhere near as bad as I was this time a month ago. So I will not beat myself up. Thanks to anyone who is reading this. Please let me know what you think- am I on the right track, am I just plain nuts, whatever.

[ILYNOT]

Texting is perfectly normal in my opinion keeps it short and simple, sometimes men rather text than talk, he is showing you he cares by thinking about you and asking but doesn't want to hear an hour of how your day went. baby steps is good! youre on the right track it seems! =)

[asitis]

Thanks Asitis. I will think about the MC. It is hard for me because it is the only time we really talk. And I think it is a good outlet for H right now, maybe not for me though. Definitely not for me.

The problem isn't nagging, or helping out around the house, H does a lot around the house and we do well with those types of discussions. It is more anything that is emotional or even just random small talk.

I think the problem, and this is getting deep here, goes back to how he was raised. He views any kind of disagreement as "being set up" or tricked and tends to think there is a hidden agenda. He half- communicates, will give very limited info and then if I ask for more or seem confused he will react as though I am criticizing. He runs from any emotion.

I also think he is lonely and doesn't know how to appropriately reach out and connect, so therefore he withdraws. He seems very happy when I pursue or initiate plans or contact.

I just got back from IC. My IC seems to think I am doing a good job with all of this, and with handling my emotional needs. She said if I didn't have occasional emotional outbursts she would be concerned that I was not in touch with the severity of the problems in my life- my kids and my H. She said she thinks I am strong and that I am holding it together very well. And of course a married person is going to have a strong emotional bond and need for connection with their S, it is not a weakness or something to work to sever.

She did say I should focus on my children and my own happiness and she suggested that H gets better treatment for his depression. I told her I was working on my communication skills- I might not be as pleasant as I think I am. She said that is good, but she thinks I am blaming myself for too much.

Your IC is right that we'd be worried if you were able to do this stuff perfectly, and she is right that you are doing well and all our suggestions are just to help improve on your doing well.

I also agree w/ her that you are blaming yourself too much, and that H needs to go to an IC if he is not.

[asitis]

On the texting, I agree. To the "How was your trip?" I'd just reply "Great!". Don't tell him to call. You are focused on your life. If he wants to know more, he will initiate. Although he doesn't act like it often from what you've said, he is a big boy and knows how to use the phone.

Why would you want to sit w/ him while he works and show interest in something you really have no interest in? Do you really think that will help? Do you really think that is what he really wants? Or do you think he is throwing you a bone wo/ having to do anything to meet your needs? Will each of you focusing on your own lives but in close proximity really make you attractive or build any real bond?

I still think that if his heart isn't into investing in the M, then the MC should either be dropped or used as a neutral party to work out a healthier S arrangement between the two of you. He shows no interest in working on his own relationship problems & social dysfunction, just spew at you. It is not giving up on your M to stop MC. It is often the best thing you can do for your M.

Don't make this about him, but about you. I need some time & space to think about how I feel about all this, and I need a break from the MC while I do that. I don't feel like it is doing either of us any good, but I know it certainly doesn't feel like it is doing me any good.

And 90--95% is an A. Of course, look for opportunities to improve & fine tune, but start looking at the positives instead of being so quick to see yourself as falling short and blaming yourself (see my last response where I agree w/ your IC that you blame yourself too much). Show yourself some compassion. None of us is hitting 100%. None of us. And we all have had to go through a learning process, and those of us who haven't written the M off and started to move on are still in a learning process even if we seem to have our sh*t together. We all struggle. And it is a very difficult and stressful time. What would you say to yourself if you were a dear friend going through what you are going through w/ a very unpleasant H and doing the things you are doing? Would it be critical or supportive and nurturing. You are the person who cares most about your life and happiness, as you are the one living it. Be your best friend.

And, you are doing well. Really.

[gonegrl]

Thank you Asitis. H has always complained that I don't show any interest in his work. Always. TBH, I am not interested in his work. Add to that, he changes jobs every 2 years or so, he does a lot of project management and analytical stuff, so its pretty dry. But he has always said that he wanted me to take an interest in his work. I think I can honestly muster enough genuine interest to ask a few questions and get a "snapshot" of what he is doing at work. I do think more than that will really be insincere.

He has also always asked me to sit quietly with him while doing our own things. I never "got it" either. But this is not a new request.

What do other couples do? Are they interested in each other's jobs? When I was working pre-kids I don't really remember H taking much of an interest in my job, but it wasn't an issue for me.

He did text tonight, said he had a good day out fishing and "Hope you are having a good day." I responded, "glad to hear you had a good trip. Tell A and B I said hello" (mutual friends) and that is all.

Thank you for your kind words of support. I feel like I am doing well overall, or "faking" doing well most of the time, but I lose perspective and feel like I am failing because those are the moments H focuses on. And I am still just so sad a lot of the time. Not depressed and crying, but just sad. This is so hard.

And my son is not doing well, he just cries all the time. He interprets EVERY thing as an insult and I am wondering if he is taking after my H with extreme hypersensitivity. Either that or I really am the biggest jerk and I just insult people carelessly with my every word. I *know* it isn't me, but this is so hard.

[gonegrl]

thank you ILYNOT . I hope you are right. A month ago I went away for a week and he only texted me maybe 3 or 4 times the whole week, and each text was 3-4 words. This trip he is at least sending friendly texts. So that is progress. If only he didn't still hate me so much.

[Azzork]

Hate, just like love, is a feeling that needs to be fed in order to survive. As long as you don't give him reasons to keep hating you, it will become too difficult for him to keep on doing it.

[asitis]

^^^^^^ This!