Looking for advice and comfort

[Wonka]

PT,

Why can't I just keep my mouth shut? I was able to do it for the whole month of july until she told me she still wanted a divorce. We met yesterday to split things in the house. Of course after that I couldn't keep my mouth shut. She is still so angry about me not wearing my ring and not introducing her as my wife to my co-workers. No matter how I explain it to her she doesn't understand. I told her it had nothing to do with her or how I feel about her. It was about past traumas (being judged and made fun of for being gay) affecting me now. She said she wanted to feel claimed or that I was proud to have her by my side, I guess a possessiveness. I told her I felt all of those things. Our talk was calm and I felt it had sunk it with her a little bit. I don't know if I should be hopeful, probably not. She said her lease is month to month so we will see what happens

Would you care to elaborate on that bold part a bit more here? In what ways does those past incidents affect you?

I can understand W's position on this issue. We all want to be acknowledged and recognized as the spouse. Straight people do it all the time...why not gay people too. This shows the spouse that they are our #1 priority and our family.

[CaliGuy]

PT

I can not relate to this part of your sitch ... Thankfully Wonka, Diff, Heavy are on this board and can relate and add some insight (I desperately have applied into the club but have yet to get my membership card approved... old joke between a long time friend who is lesbian and myself)

Thing I would like to add though ... feelings are just that....feelings, they are not right nor wrong, she feels how she feels. I can see if someone does not feel like they are #1, how it would make them form resentment/hurts/pain. You can not change the past .... like many of us here. A good response for this might be the go-to validations "I'm sorry you feel this way, I understand how hurtful that must have been. I would do many things differently in retrospect"

[PT33]

Really it was only with work I am out every where else. I have dealt with this in therapy and now I understand why I had such a hard time. I am a physical therapist so I see a lot of people a day and I just didn't feel like being judged. I see my pt.'s a lot and I didn't want things to be awkward or uncomfortable at work because I spend so much time there. My wifes motto is who cares what they think, but thats just not how I was. I should have gone and talked to a counselor when we first got engaged. I guess I should go into why I was like that...wonka I am sure u can relate some. Gay people have not always been as accepted as they have been recently. When I was discovering who I was when I was in college it was back in 2002, obviously not as bad as it was in 50's, 60's, 70s, 80s, but there are still ignorant people out there. I played basketball in college and I lost my starting spot when my coach found out I was gay. Some of my teammates were pretty horrible. One of them told their dad and he told my dad. My dad basically disowned me and told me I needed psychological help. My mom also came out in later life and what I learned from her was dont ask dont tell basically.

Anyways I have overcome this with therapy. She thinks I was hurting her purposely because I didnt do anything about it over the last 3 yrs. I was stuck I just wanted her to understand and for it to go away. Well obviously that was the wrong approach. She has always been the number one priority in my head I just didnt show it like I should have. I think it may not have caused as many problems, but my has had this happen in past relationships. I love her so much and I always felt so proud to have her by my side. I felt like the luckiest person in the world and I always to her that.

[PT33]

Cali
I did validate her feelings yesterday and I have been for a few months. I told her i can see how that would hurt her etc etc. It looked like it sank in more yesterday. I wish I would have validated her feelings when we would argue about it in the past, I just felt attacked in the past. I told I see things very differently now. I think she just holds on to anger and hurt because she doesn't know how to deal any other way. I told her I wish she could forgive me

[CaliGuy]

PT

Yeah .. past pains and hurts take time. I know this all to well, I am still wrestling this ... its not easy.

Thing is, the past .... we can only learn from it, living there will not allow us to grow as a person. Do not get stuck on the shoulda-woulda-coulda- of 2014, its done, now if you learn from it, apply that knowledge to NOW, how beautiful would that be vs sulking in how you might have done this or that and not been 'here' .... no lesson learned EVER with that process right? PT you have to live and make mistakes to LEARN. No one figures out how to play sitting on the bench ... you have to be out there on the field/court to really 'get it' right?

I recall thinking like you are ... and I read a quote ... did not memorize it but it said something to the effect"Without great suffering there is no growth" At the time I though .. "ahhh how nice another quote about my pain". But I am here to tell you... no WAY I would have made the changes in my life I have in the past 18 months without going through all this, being brought to my knees and stripped from all I held dear to my heart.

PT ... take this .. and GROW

[Zephyr]

Hey PT, you can take the lead with showing her right now. She has not the tools to be able to express her anger or emotions.

First, Show her that you will listen without judgement or criticism. You will really listen and validate (sounds like you are the right track here). You aren't going to argue about how she feels or tell her what to do ...you are listening. You become a safe place for her to voice things, hell you even feel welcoming to her to open up. See the did ffference between that person and the you she had for years. We are learning (Cali is spot on with that point, cannot be hammered enough)

Then, the next part...you Show her how you are able to express yours concisely, without drama, calmly. This will take practice, but you can do this.

[Wonka]

PT,

Yeah, it can be challenging to navigate in the world during times when people's minds and hearts are not open to people's unique characteristics.

Back in the 1980's, I was out as a gay person and yeah...I've had some real mind benders from people who were closed off. I remember that day I was out gay as a freshman in high school and walking down the hall where lockers were with eyes turning to stare at me. Talk about baptism of fire!!

In my mind, I wanted to be authentic with myself. I don't do fake very well. Yeah, I had boyfriends in middle school because that was supposed to be the "right" thing to do. At some point, I just decided that wasn't working for me.

During my freshman year in college, I roomed with another gay woman. On the same floor, there was another wing that housed boys. One day, I came back to my dorm room from classes to find some really ugly graffiti on the door with words like "dyke, lizzie" written all over it. I had my suspicions on who the likely culprits were and I immediately marched over to the other wing to knock on the door.

The guy answered the door tried to play dumb. I simply said, I know it was you who wrote garbage on my door and it must stop now. If you continue with this, I will report you to the Dean. That put a stop to those silly sophomoric antics FOREVER.

I even had guys telling me that I didn't know what I was missing....yep, that's right. They said it to my face.

I don't shout from the rooftops that I am gay, but I don't go out of my way to hide it. It is a part of who I am just as being straight is a part of someone. What's the difference??

It wasn't too long ago that black and white people weren't allowed to marry. It wasn't too long ago that nearsighted people were classified as "dumb" and put in special classes. Not too long ago that left-handed people were considered "deviant" and forced to use their right hand.

Cali, you might want to come out of the closet and tell people that you're actually a lesbian.

[Huddy]

The 70's and 80's were decades that some of us went through, and while we look back at part of it with rose tinted glasses, discrimination was rife and, thankfully, in these more enlightened times, things are different for everybody, especially here in the UK. Being 'gay' etc. just doesn't raise an eyebrow anymore.

[PT33]

Cali- I really do hope that she can heal from the hurt that I caused her by my mistakes. We were so happy and good together. I have learned and grown from all my mistakes. Its too bad she won't give me a chance to show her this. No sulking here, I already did that. I can only control and change myself for the better. I see what your saying is that everything happens for a reason basically. I wouldnt have made these changes if this didnt happen.

Zephyr-I have been showing her the last month when we were still living together and I saw some improvements. but it was like anytime she felt herself softening she closed back up. She has been going to therapy and she has said it has helped with her anger. She is also learning to deal with her severe anxiety better. I think I am doing good with the validating and listening (I used to interrupt and defend myself a lot). I hope that she is starting to see me as welcoming. I dont know how to continue you this because I dont know how often I will see her now that she has moved back to LA (hour away).

Wonka-I admire your courage to stand up for yourself, I wish I would have done the same thing instead of being so passive. Maybe I wouldnt have lost my wife.

Thank you all for your advice and support! I need a plan....do things change now that I have to sign divorce papers? (she has told me a few times when I asked her if we have to do this, she said that maybe this is why CA has a "6 month cooling off period" before its final) Just continue to focus on myself I assume. Kinda the theme I have read in other threads.

[PT33]

Today is going to be a difficult day. My STBXW is coming to take her dog and one of the dogs we share. I love both of our dogs so much. I am heartbroken that I will probably not see him much. It will be hard to see him because that means I have to see her. I am going to try not to cry too much

I know I don't have a crystal ball, but I feel like she will never change her mind even though she has said things like there is a 6 month cooling off period and her lease is month to month. Otherwise why would she still be going through with the divorce and selling the house. I guess I have no choice, but to let her go on her journey and I will go on mine. I know that I am a better person and I have already learned so much from my mistakes.