H has started an affair

[Starsky309]

mvgfwd2,

I was thinking about "no contact in front of us/in our family house with OA" boundaries because I feel very disrespected when he does that around me or kids. But how can I enforce that without being controlling? Any suggestions?

By not worrying one whit whether or not the cheater perceives it as being "controlling." This boundary is for YOU.

Think of it this way. I saved this post from another poster here named Jayne, who summed up boundaries just about the best and clearest way I've ever read:


Jayne, on “boundaries”:

Think about boundaries like this:

Boundaries are not about controlling the other person, because boundaries are about drawing "circles" around *you* and determining what you will and won't allow inside that circle.

Your WxH can do whatever he wants OUTSIDE that circle. You are not telling him what to do.

But you will only let into that circle people who treat you with respect.

He's free to go on treating you with disrespect, but you won't know about it because he'll be outside your circle. He's free to go on and draw his own boundaries of no expectations and no responsibilities, outside your circle.

He can do WHATEVER he wants. He's a free person, free to make WHATEVER choices he wants.

BUT SO ARE YOU, and you are free to choose who to allow within your circle.

That's all. Not about trying to control him at all. Tell him he's totally free. He has the WHOLE WORLD, outside your circle, to go and do whatever he wants.

If he's saying you have to let him into your circle no matter what, then THAT is about HIM controlling YOU.

[Anna25]

Hi Sotto,

This morning he seemed in a bad mood again. We talked something about kids' babysitter, but his tone was not friendly at all. I know I should not let his mood affect me, but it is very difficult **sigh**

Yes, I am ready for this weekend! I have pretty outfits picked up for myself and kids for the wedding and I even ordered more new clothes for the rest of the trip I am going to mani and facial tomorrow too.

Also people invited me to dinner on Friday, which I would have declined before since H will be working and I have to have babysitter watch the kids at night (that I am not too comfortable with) But this time I am going and I am looking forward to it.

Thanks for your encouragement always.

[Painter]

Hi Anna,

I'm sorry to see you here - but it sounds like you are a strong person with a lot of self-control, and that will serve you well through this trial!

My situation was that I knew about an EA, then suspected a PA, but only got proof of the PA after H said he ended it. However, there were a lot of lies and uncertainty around it, so not sure of the timelines exactly. (BTW, did you take a screen shot of their chat and e-mail it to yourself? Document evidence of the A whenever you can!)

A couple of factors that I think were important for H's decision to end the A and work on our relationship, was that I didn't give up on our M. I told him early on that I thought it was worth saving and I wanted to get past the A. He also realized there were some very real practical consequences to splitting up after I saw a L (he had seen one without my knowledge but had not presented the facts, so the advice he got was worthless).

It sounds to me like your H is very confused and upset with himself for the mess he has made. I believe that his advances to you - the hug and the kiss - is to test if you are willing to take him back. Perhaps not to see if he can have his cake and eat it, too, but to check if he has burned all bridges.

He may also be thinking about that you will be spending some days away together (at a wedding, no less!) and he's trying to create some kind of connection so the trip will not be awkward (in his mind).

Here's what I would do: I would share brief hugs, I would respond to a kiss *if it felt natural and I wanted to* - but I would not ML until the A is ended and after a clean bill of health from H. The thinking is that I would want to show him that I had feelings for him and wanted to save the M, and to build a connection and distract him from the OW, but also that I had self-respect and cannot ML with my H while he is seeing another woman.

I think this approach is supported by Michele's concept that what you do is what you create. Meaning, if you act lovingly and close and spend time together, loving feelings will grow. If you stay distant and avoid each other, distance will grow and the love will die.

You have the gift of time - he is there, he sees you, he sees his family, and he notices his children's reaction. Personally, I would tell him clearly that I would be willing to try to save the M, that many, many couples get past an A, but that he needs to end it, and there will be no real M until he ends the A.

Then I would do all the things you have mentioned - bring your old self back, become more independent (which will serve you well regardless), find child care solutions (you may have to), etc.

It sounds to me as if one of the issues you may have is that your work schedules don't allow you to spend much time together? He is off during the day and watches the children while you are at work, but he also works? At nights? When did you spend time together, and did you at all without children if you don't have a sitter?

These are things I would work on developing, so that if you reconcile, you can spend time together. You should get a sitter and he should get a day job. He needs to get away from the OW anyway.

Best wishes!!!

[Anna25]

Starsky,

Thank you so much for this post.
This is very empowering and yes, it is very clear now.

Honestly, this whole thing is a new world for me. I have always been the accomodator in the relationship. I always put my kids and H first even if it means inconvenient or uncomfortable for me.
"How do I feel whole and happy without a partner?" is a big question to myself.....

[Starsky309]

A really good book on boundaries is called -- simply -- "Boundaries," by Cloud and Townsend. It's considered the definitive primer on the subject, and it may help you. I personally SUKKED at boundaries, and have had to really work at it -- still do.


Starsky

[HeavyD]

So Starksy

Just have to ask. I don't know if you follow my situation or not.

I have given my W boundries maybe she saw them as ulitmatiums. Basically, no marriage with me as long as you have AP. You will have to leave the house if you are engaged with AP which she did.

So, boundries ignored, she files for D.

So, in this situation, what other boundry can I exert? My answer I suspect is nothing, just accept what it is and move on.

Correct?

[Anna25]

Hi Painter,

Thank you for checking in and very interesting view...

At BD, I told H that I am not willing to just give up on M and family we have. H's response was, that honestly he does not feel like it right now (bc he mentioned that even if not with this OW, he might mess up in the future with someone else) So I think H knows where I stand, even though we haven't had any R talk since (one week now)

You are right, H is very confused and upset. He looks miserable. He said with the guilt he feels, he can't continue life this way (double life) thus the confession. Even though I don't believe everything H says right now, I felt that part is genuine. So I am on the fence if he is trying to take advantage of both worlds, but unconsciously so maybe.

Because right now, the best to describe H is avoidance. He does not want to think about it. He seems to be drinking everyday too.
I don't think he has really thought about the reality of splitting up. Even though he said he wants me and kids to stay at home bc we deserve it, we can't afford it financially if we really split.
Is he going to get another job? then we need care for the kids during the day, how will he come up with the money to cover that expense on top of separate living expenses?
H also said he will never do anything to hurt the kids, but how tearing apart this family would not hurt the kids?

So while he is avoiding everything, is it a good idea for me to bring up R talk?

Yes we have a difficult schedule. The time we have together just for us is after he gets off work, maybe 10 or 11pm half of the week, other half we usually spends all evenings together. He does what he loves to do, so as long as he makes most of the time we have together, I have learnt to live with it. H does ask his mom to babysit for us so that we can go out, maybe once a month or so.

During this weekend if he comes along, I am planning to be pleasant and friendly. I hope I can pull it off, being loving but not pursuing.

[Anna25]

Starsky,

I got that book on my list, thank you!

[25yearsmlc]

So Starksy

Just have to ask. I don't know if you follow my situation or not.

I have given my W boundries maybe she saw them as ulitmatiums.


While I support Boundaries (and the book Starsky suggested, really is a good one)

the risk is always that it comes off as an ultimatum to the WAS. The risk is also, that it's how you intended it to be seen, meaning, YOU must watch yourself when you call something a "Boundary", when it really might just be an attempt to control your spouse.

Similarly, the line between "teaching them a lesson/punishing them" and truly just having self respect, can be a blurry shifting line. We always have to watch ourselves for that.

Personally, I had trouble with confusing my version of "Justice" with just me rationalizing being angry and trying to make my h pay for being "selfish and wrong".

For a minute, forget what's right and wrong. Instead, ask yourself what your GOAL is and whether the behavior or comment you want to do or make, will be effective in achieving that goal.

DB 101----Div Busting really is about doing what works, and Doing None or Less of what doesn't work.




Basically, no marriage with me as long as you have AP. You will have to leave the house if you are engaged with AP which she did.

So, boundries ignored, she files for D.


Clearly it's not an effective strategy to simply assert a boundary AND then show zero change on your end, IF that is what can be said.

Plus, most WAS's will NOT return to a marriage they left - unless they believe the marriage can be different/better than before.

It's the job of the LBS to demonstrate that it can be better/different than before, which is shown by the changes seen in you.

Needless to say, not easy. But it's also not complicated.

In her mind, Why should she stop the A, if the only "cost" to it, is the loss of a marriage she already wants out of?

What is it that you would withdraw that she's not already giving up to see the OM?

I don't mean this to offend, but to demonstrate that boundaries (AND OR ultimatums) are just words - unless there's a new different re/action or behavior that comes with a violation.

And if you come across as harsh or judgmental, it's easily interpreted as meaning she has burned too many bridges so there's no turning back for her. You cannot behave as if forgiveness is impossible YET you must also GAL

Ultimatums are frowned upon in DBing mostly b/c they usually fail

AND OR b/c they come off as controlling.

So if you were to say to your wife, "Do not have an affair or else..." And then she did have an affair, what then? Or else what?

Are you going to leave her, or file for divorce or fight custody or what? (I'm not suggesting those, just asking as examples). I oppose ultimatums in general b/c they tend to put the person who issued it, in a corner.

Don't issue an ultimatum for something you are not totally comfortable enforcing.

So, in this situation, what other boundry can I exert? My answer I suspect is nothing, just accept what it is and move on.

Correct?

^^ hence the difficulty of this situation and the risk of ultimatums.

I'd say this:

you want a "game plan", correct? That means you need a GOAL, and a plan to achieve that goal. But the goal cannot simply be to reconcile with your wife.

Sounds sad and harsh, I know. But this^^ is ALL about you wanting something you cannot necessarily ever have. For now, I think you must forget her. Assume she's in the Australian back country and cannot be reached.

The goal FOR NOW must be exclusively about your own growth as a man. Becoming the best man you can become. DEFINE that in specific terms you understand. COUNTER her negatives of you, with the new positives. So if you were once perpetually late, you become MR PUNCTUAL and arrive on time or early for everything.

Sure, there are tougher traits and flaws you have and must work on, but my point is the same. She has negative images of you, (which may be valid!) But valid or not, they can be changed. The change has to come from you and that's why your plans must be - for lack of a better term, "Self centered". Dig deep.

This may mean taking better care of your body to look better, or to get some anger management or it may mean being a better listener, all of which can still be done without pursuit!

Get some "mantras" or inspiring quotes for yourself, and SAY them out loud to yourself several times a day.

Turn your marriage over to God, (or the universe or Life force, etc) to free yourself to just work on YOU.

Behave in healthy confident ways and eventually, you will FEEL healthier and more confident. In TIME, your life will improve.

The improved life you create for yourself must and will be enough for you.

What your wife does or believed about the new wonderful you, is far beyond your control.
Any efforts on your end to affect that, are for nothing. They are wasted energy.

That energy (the energy spent on worrying about her OR in trying to convince her of anything about you) is a waste of energy.

Spend ALL of your energy on becoming the best man you can become. The reality of who you become, will suffice. It MUST suffice. Her opinions will be out of your control and thus must be released.

If she believes you are a purple lesbian from Mars, you may not be able to change that belief - but you cannot let it change the reality that - you are a man with great qualities.

In time, Her beliefs will NOT be based on reality, her "data" about you will be false.

That fact that you become a better man and great husband (for someone) has to be enough for you. Because it is real.

If you keep in touch with her family or other mutual friends, word will get back to her. NO need to spend any energy on wondering what she might hear/think or feel.

THAT^^ is all you ought to "do", b/c it happens to align with your goal of becoming the best man you can become. NOT to win her back but b/c you want to self actualize.


The effort to change HER behavior, and to understand her and to make her understand (anything) that you love her, is ALL for nothing at this time.

Worse, it's actually counter productive.

It means your energy is "outward bound" instead of being about YOUR own growth and YOUR Changes.

You'll keep checking in with her to "See if she knows that I feel X" and you'll keep on checking her temperature to see if "she knows Y and Z" and you'll strategize about what to wear or how to word a sentence and your energy will continue to hone in only on HER reactions to your behavior.

That is no way to live, and it sure won't re-attract her to you. If it worked, it would have by now.

Go inward for the changes you need to make, and outward to GAL.

Get her off your radar screen...for now and the foreseeable future.

Turn the marriage over to God, & simply completely take charge of your own life.

When you become the best man you truly can be, and you know it,

then you can turn ALL of this over to God, let the cards fall where they will,

and be at peace.

From this day forward, Hold your head high and live your life well.

[25yearsmlc]

Anna25

though I just posted to Heavy, I think for the most part that specific post can apply to your situation.

Hang in there, we are all rooting for you.

((( )))