Oof - Cali, that is some tough stuff and as others have said - you are doing really well and I think your interaction with W was productive. This stuff is 'flashback', and there are elements of PSTD and re-living the nightmare. Brings it all rushing back I'm sure..
You re-experience the feelings of violation. Of having OM in that space and so on. Painful stuff. It is good that you talked out assumptions that were happening on your W's part too. Stuff like this is why piecing is so hard I think. With DBing you can detach and not have to re-experience these horrible things. In piecing you do. But I guess it is only by facing them, talking them through and moving forward lovingly - slowly re-establishing that trust - that you can heal together.
I too found the box of condoms - before BD, but mine only had one missing LOL!!
Just keep taking it slow and be authentic. Take the good moments when they come. Deal with the painful ones. Keep knowing that you will truly be fine, whichever way....
I'm so glad to know you on these boards Cali - you're a great guy - and I do think your W truly realises what she almost lost.
Take care xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Luke, when we db,, we need to look deeply inside, often to places we don't want to go to try to get to our best selves. We put some stuff into place regarding our spouses while we do that, like detaching, etc. We learn to concentrate on ourselves and what we need to do.
With piecing you need to dig deeper into all of that and when you do, it exposes more stuff about yourself. Deeper feelings that need dealing with, but, you are adding in the dynamic between the two of you and all that brings.
You are looking at some deep seated things here. Things that make you question.
That's good, though. This is stuff that needs dealing with no matter what happens with your wife.
Communication is key. So is not letting things fester. Deal with it as it comes and then put it to rest.
I do want to say that I feel as if you are both speeding this up a bit more than you should be. That's just my opinion.
Nothing has to be decided today. I think its important that you let this play out and that you address what you need to.
There will be triggers. There will be tests. No way around it. The only way is through it.
Hey Cali. I have no advice, but see you are getting good stuff from others. I read your posts and really commend you for how you are handling things. The A, the condoms, the shirt....I really don't think I could handle it as well as you.
I think you are being a little hard on yourself. I believe your feelings of frustration, anger and doubt are absolutely normal and justified. I worry with some of your wife's reactions that she really still is not aware of just how much damage she has done. She seems to downplay a lot, which puts you in an even tougher position.
I relate to your questioning if returning to life with W is even what you want. Must be something in the air, I have had the same kind of week. Seems you guys are moving quickly in the R area, and there is still so much to work through. I just say, take it slow, do what feels right to you.
The way I see it, you have earned the right to take things at your pace, to call the shots and set the path. I am not feeling very MLC tolerant right now....she called the shots for 2 years and left a mess for you and S to deal with...take things as they come and do what feels right. I have no doubt you will handle each bump in an admirable way. You are a real catch Cali.
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Cali, It takes about 8-9 months after the "reconciliation" for the MLCer to feel comfortable in their own skin. Until they do, they are fragile and will appear to skirt issues, etc. As they test us to see how we feel about them, the reconciliation and making the marriage a new one. Yes, they do test us in many ways, so don't be surprised about this. It's just the way of the land for them until they know that they are truly "home" for good.
I have advised others during this particular process that this is the hardest part for the lbs to work on because we want everything out in the open pronto and it doesn't work. We want the marriage back and we want them to be fully committed, etc. It doesn't happen that way. You have to remember that when the crisis ends, they will exit the same way that they went in, i.e., gradually. Gradual re-entry takes months and you have to dig deeper for patience. There will come a time when you and your wife will be able to sit down and have those much needed conversations. Trust me, the time will come.
For now, dig deeper for patience and allow her to continue to come to you. Come here to vent or to talk. You've come so far and I would hate to see you take several giant steps back when they could be avoided.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Oof - Cali, that is some tough stuff and as others have said - you are doing really well and I think your interaction with W was productive. This stuff is 'flashback', and there are elements of PSTD and re-living the nightmare. Brings it all rushing back I'm sure..
You re-experience the feelings of violation. Of having OM in that space and so on. Painful stuff. It is good that you talked out assumptions that were happening on your W's part too. Stuff like this is why piecing is so hard I think. With DBing you can detach and not have to re-experience these horrible things. In piecing you do. But I guess it is only by facing them, talking them through and moving forward lovingly - slowly re-establishing that trust - that you can heal together.
I too found the box of condoms - before BD, but mine only had one missing LOL!!
Just keep taking it slow and be authentic. Take the good moments when they come. Deal with the painful ones. Keep knowing that you will truly be fine, whichever way....
I'm so glad to know you on these boards Cali - you're a great guy - and I do think your W truly realises what she almost lost.
Take care xx
Thank you Toots for your insight and your kind words ... and yeah ... you nailed it. Its one thing to deal and process the hurt and anger that bubbles up from the A ... I know while DBing for me that was put in a box so I could focus on me, my contributions to the failed M and all that ... now at this point I am trying to get through this on my time line in my way and when that incident was just as you described ...a flashback and that bow was opened up on me completely against my will. (More on this incident in the next update)
Luke, when we db,, we need to look deeply inside, often to places we don't want to go to try to get to our best selves. We put some stuff into place regarding our spouses while we do that, like detaching, etc. We learn to concentrate on ourselves and what we need to do.
With piecing you need to dig deeper into all of that and when you do, it exposes more stuff about yourself. Deeper feelings that need dealing with, but, you are adding in the dynamic between the two of you and all that brings.
You are looking at some deep seated things here. Things that make you question.
That's good, though. This is stuff that needs dealing with no matter what happens with your wife.
Communication is key. So is not letting things fester. Deal with it as it comes and then put it to rest.
I do want to say that I feel as if you are both speeding this up a bit more than you should be. That's just my opinion.
Nothing has to be decided today. I think its important that you let this play out and that you address what you need to.
There will be triggers. There will be tests. No way around it. The only way is through it.
uR always my voice of reason .. yeah its the deeper stuff that I am currently working on. As I read here ... "How do you eat an elephant" Small bites .... and that has been how I am approaching it ... I had a little moment this weekend where I noticed a few things ... just about me .. more changes I need to make, again for me. This "Changing for me" thing over the past couple years has been a personal 180 ... as a 'fixer, pleaser, and conflict-avoider' .. .the change was required but still seems like I am so new at this even-though I have made a ton of progress in this area.
Ad yeah ... things may be going a bit fast. Part of that is timing (My lease being up/ her job search/school getting ready to start), I think the other part is the strong urge to return to normal (W knowing ... even now I am still not trusting things and taking things slowly) I still question if this new W and new M is one I want, she pressed me on this last week ... she even called me out on how I act with S is different than with her, seems she felt hurt that I do not have that same care-free love type vibe with her as I do with him .... I wanted to reply that He did not have an A nor put me through several years of 'this' ... thankfully 'hurt little boy' is easier to contain these days. (This made me realize I need to up the PMA game a bit even when I may not feel it)
Getting to normal will require dealing with these issues, the ones W created, but at this point she evades/skirts the issues as job pointed out recently ..., I do not press knowing better, and understanding there will be a place and time, and its not here and now.
Cali, It takes about 8-9 months after the "reconciliation" for the MLCer to feel comfortable in their own skin. Until they do, they are fragile and will appear to skirt issues, etc. As they test us to see how we feel about them, the reconciliation and making the marriage a new one. Yes, they do test us in many ways, so don't be surprised about this. It's just the way of the land for them until they know that they are truly "home" for good.
I have advised others during this particular process that this is the hardest part for the lbs to work on because we want everything out in the open pronto and it doesn't work. We want the marriage back and we want them to be fully committed, etc. It doesn't happen that way. You have to remember that when the crisis ends, they will exit the same way that they went in, i.e., gradually. Gradual re-entry takes months and you have to dig deeper for patience. There will come a time when you and your wife will be able to sit down and have those much needed conversations. Trust me, the time will come.
For now, dig deeper for patience and allow her to continue to come to you. Come here to vent or to talk. You've come so far and I would hate to see you take several giant steps back when they could be avoided.
job ... Thank you so much for this post, I read it via phone and let me tell you .. it came at just the right time, you are SPOT ON here.
That urge for things to be addressed, things to be normal .. .and knowing 'normal' what ever that is/was ... most likely is a fantasy for me. 'Normal' died with that old M wayyyyy back when, I realized that this weekend, whatever 'this' is ... is new but 'feels' like the old in many ways (along with that comes fears of not wanting certain parts of that old M) ... I think that's the hang up, I accepted my M was dead and gone, but this new M is like a ghost visiting right now.
She does continue to try to figure things out, test me on certain things, along with probe for my acceptance of the damage ... much of which can not be undone.
Cali, Dig deeper for patience. If your wife asks for your opinion, give it to her. If she wants to know how you feel about things, tell her. She's got a ways to go and is still trying to figure out herself, the damage and what she can do to work things out in her mind. She knows you are there and wants to really work things out...but it all takes time to put herself back together again.
I know you want your marriage to be back on track and have everything "aired out", but the time isn't right just yet. It will come and when it does, the door will open and you will have your opportunity to express your thoughts on what transpired.
Patience, my friend. The time isn't right just yet.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Cali -- You have been an inspiration to myself and others I am sure.
Reading through this, some of your very own words pop into my head. When you were working through the "triggers" in her apartment, you finally reached a point where you refused to give OM that much power over how you felt. It seemed that approach helped you in moving beyond the triggers. I may be completely wrong here, but would a similar approach work for you in dealing with the "gift" and the A in general? I'm not trying to say let her off the hook or anything like, but I know for me I hate the feelings that come with this. The pit in the bottom of the stomach, what seems to be random spurts of anger. I like to believe that removing the hurt of it is more for us than it is for them. I understand it is a long road and you are further down the road than I am, but I think you deserve some peace from this.
Good luck, Cali. You are an incredible guy, W is lucky you're giving her a second chance at all.
M: 38 W: 37 T: 20 M: 19 Kids: Stepson?20, S19, S16, D12 BD: 02/19/2015 (She moved out) PA Confirmed: 02/22/2015 (She is now living with OM) Dazed and confused: 09/13/2015
Friday night I worked my gig ... admittedly I got a bit housed, sometimes its just part of the gig. Saturday morning came all to quickly, W and I went to the post session which was on conflict management. Not certain how much we both got out of this ... but we were in attendance. After picked up S, went home and took a short power nap prior to going to church. Not sure if I mentioned the Parish wanted me to give my Faith Story again, W wanted to be there (I did not invite just told her I was going and why) So we head out ... W as typical dragging along and I did get a bit testy as being late really bothers me ... ironically the conflict management course we just were in did not come into play here. Anyways ... we arrived and I gave my story. After on the way to the car we were stopped several times, I did know a few of the people who thanked me for giving the story, many others I did not know as they shared how touched they were W seemed to really be moved by all this. On the drive home this prompted a conversation started by W about who she refers to as the "New Cali" ... I asked if this was a good thing, or not ... she quickly stated a much much better version, but one she is still getting used to. We talked .. well .. SHE talked I sipped on the STFU smoothie and listened she mentioned some things she noticed, mostly positives but also mentioned there are times she sees that I struggle with what has happened, what she has done, then she shared when she sees this she can see it on my face I am broken and its because of her. I did validate a bit ... also told her she was mind reading, just because I get quiet does not always mean I am in pain, or thinking about all she has done, all our M has been through, warned her its dangerous to go down that path of mindreading.
Watched a movie that night, then Sunday I woke early and played football, came 'home' took a shower and convinced S to help me organize his room. If you have been following along and taking notes (YES there is a quiz) every weekend I have picked a room to clean and organize. I had not thought of this much till yesterday ... part of it is because W is much less stressed when things are clean and in order .... so I thought ... am I doing this for her? ... NO Actually that place, which I named the W/OM Love nest was full of triggers. SO for me to get rid of these I have been putting my little touch on every single room and have felt much more at ease and peace, not thinking about the A as much. Now S's room really has no tie to the A nor OM, but I still felt like it did not have MY touch ... if that makes sense .. so in a way its like I am a dog peeing in every room marking my territory.
This was no small task, convincing an 8 year old that he needs to trash a toy ... similar to telling a WAS the A is wrong. So ones I could not get him to toss, I did talk him into puttin gin the garage to sell later. THEN it HAPPENED .... in his closet, yup ... a pair of mens underwear. WTF???!!!! S seen them told me that all that 'stuff' just a few items of clothes, some girls toys, hair clips, and a sock here n there were all from SIL and BIL who stayed over for a few weeks last year. And yea... that shirt, now that I think about it (had a logo of his fav team) .. BIL's!!! I had not gone from that mad to that happy in a long time. I simply tossed it all in the trash bag and kept moving on laughing a bit at how that T shirt could have really ended things had I allowed it to.
After we got things all done, family time at the beach, we had a great evening, watched a good family movie, W was very happy telling me the place feels so cozy and like 'home' thanking me with a kiss. She jokingly asked how I talked S into the deep clean and toy purge and how much I paid him...lol. Was a positive weekend for the most part, she starts work today so I am curious to see how she handles things, wondering if she is going to be able to balance her life .... and where the M and I fall into the priority pile ... again ... being patient and just observing a bit as I still work on me.
