LBS becomes the WS. The price of peace.

[Pyrite]

Cadet I am starting a new thread, with a new theme, I hope this is OK.

Sandi chaired a series of threads where she most impactfully described the behaviour of WWs and their motivation. In summary, the WS is unhappy in their M, finds herself in the situation of being pursued by OM, is flattered, and finally succumbs.

Somewhere along this path we, the LBSs come in, and the bomb is dropped. The WAS is angry, spitting venom, exaggerating and even making up all of the behaviour of the LBS that “forced” them to take this action. Rewriting history.

The vast majority of albeit well meaning advise to the LBS is merely the same as was given to and heard by the WS. “You deserve better. You’re better off.” At the very least “This is no way to live. You have to think of yourself first (for a change).” And this, my friends, is probably the crucial point – this ^^ is what the WS was persuaded by. And in ALL likelihood long before the AP surfaced.

Maybe 5 years ago and attractive woman entered my work place. I was a happily M man, so didn’t think twice about it. Even in later years when I wasn’t happily M, I was still M. In the past few months nothing has really changed in our R, however MY attitude has.

I have found myself, “telling” myself, even forcefully at times, that I am “allowed” to perceive this attractive woman as a potential R prospect. Now, 6 months post –appocolypse, I am remarkably detached and “over” my M blowing up and grieving for my W. I honestly forgive her and feel compassion for her. I still hurt. Mostly I think this is traceable to the rejection and often surfaces when I am struck by an image of her ML with OM.

Crucial point #2. When I get into this state, after wallowing for a bit, I try to pull myself out of it by imagining the “other” times. The times when I feel at peace with what has happened. Ultimately the times when I feel most compassionate for her and release her to her highest good. This generally leads to me feeling at peace with the life I have now and that which I might have in the future. This brings me back to imagining future R, possibly even with this attractive woman at work.

Then I start to feel uneasy again, even guilty. I tell myself, forcefully (from above) “This is no way to live. You have to think of yourself first (for a change).” Or at least something along those lines. In my case, as the LBS, this is easy enough to swallow, at least easier than it was for my W.

So the point is that my W went through exactly these same things. However in her case the M was still in place. My W was undoubtedly pursued by OM. This is just the reality of my situation. I honestly believe that my W was not looking for it. She was confronted with the same dilemma I am in that moment when I feel guilty. I feel “guilty” for even considering a R with OW. This consideration is prompted from a different place. She is not pursuing me, but it is “available”.

In my W’s case it was obviously made “available” as OM pursued her (and I do know this for a fact). “Considering” it made her feel free and happy, but it also made her feel guilty. And to ease her guilt, as do I, told herself “This is no way to live. You have to think of yourself first (for a change).”

Eventually this ^^ won out. She no doubt had a much harder fight on her hands to get this over the line than I do. Actually in my case it is relatively easy. This is my bed that someone else made for me. I have no other choice but to move forward with my interests in mind. The alternative is nothing but destructive anyway. Nonetheless II do feel guilty. Feel guilty because I am giving up on my M, my M that W has already declared buried and gone. I feel guilty because i am betraying W. But she already as a new life/love. If i feel guilty, how guilty must she have felt? No wonder she was s torn up and angry t BD when this all came out.

She finally made the conscious decision to stand by it. So any argument against her position is also going up against this hard won battle “to put herself first”. I know how hard it is for me to win this battle now as the LBS. It must’ve been hell for her. Being so hard fought it is not surprising that she is so angry and venomous, rewriting history and doing anything to hold her ground, push towards D. At the same time A is active and validating.

I wish I had’ve had this understanding months ago. But I honestly don’t think it would’ve made much difference in my case. I still hope that one day she softens when this A is done and we can talk about this. Very little chance that R will ever happen. But who knows.

[PigPen]

Fascinating write up Py. I'm about to call it a night with an early morning so I'll comment on this tomorrow. Thank you for putting this up for us to read though.

PP

[Pyrite]

thanks PP. I'm sorry I haven't been around to visit. I've been spreading myself real thin for the last month. I had a huge update on my previous thread before I moved here which you might be interested in reading.

I'm so grateful for this place which has guided me and at the same time provided a receptive and constructively critical audience for my musings.

[Clairee]

Py, I've never posted to you before but have followed your sitch. I just finished reading your last post on the other thread & have to say it was beautiful. You write with such an open heart & that post really touched me. Thank you for sharing.

[Pyrite]

Thanks Clairee, its always a bit scary to find out there are people watching that you didn't know about From your sig it looks like you are getting somewhere. Good luck with everything.

[Smothy]

This makes sense, Py. I don't feel any guilt any more, just hurt. I feel that H reaction to me is because of his guilt and pride. I will reflect some more and feed back again :-)

[dwh15]

Great post Pyrite. I haven't read up on your whole sitch yet, but plan on checking it out. I can understand what you're saying. I'm about 5 months out from DDay, and my WW left to live with OM as well. I'm not quite as detached as you YET, but see myself getting there. Like you, I've found myself thinking about other women, and even went on a date about a month ago, but felt so guilty the entire time I didn't enjoy myself. I even feel guilty sometimes when I feel myself letting go because I know that after I give up, it really is over for good.

I think it can be helpful to understand how someone could fall into the trap of an A. We are all human and make mistakes, huge ones. And I also agree that it's good to forgive, so that you don't carry around that anger. But I would stop short of validating the decision to have an A. There is NO reason anyone should ever cross that line, no matter how bad things seem in their M. If a person is that unhappy, they should seek help, talk with their partner, do whatever is necessary to fix the M. Then, if all else fails, you proceed with D, knowing you gave it your all. And you don't get involved with another person until the M is officially over.

I'm happy that you seem to be detached from the sitch and able to start moving ahead with your life. I hope that however things work out, you find happiness.

[Zues126]

Then, if all else fails, you proceed with D, knowing you gave it your all.

Where in the wedding vows does it state that if the M isn't the way you want it and you feel unhappy, then as long as you think it's failed and you've given your all it's ok to proceed with D?

This type of conditional acceptance of divorce blows my mind. If it's ok to get divorced at all, does it really matter when the WAS starts screwing around with OP?

Every M will reach a point when it feels all has failed. Turns out those are just feelings though, and if you do what you're supposed to do regardless of how you feel, things change. That's why we have the vows in the first place, to stick through the 'for worse'. Maybe 2 years later, maybe 10. But it gets better, and you have committed relationships, preserved families, and a real M. Not these serial 5-10 year R's that people call M's in between rationalizations of why they are walking.

May seem like I'm nit picking, but to me I feel there is a bigger gap between saying NO to D and making it acceptable conditionally, then it is to discuss the appropriate order of operations when D is acceptable.

[Pyrite]

thanks for stopping by dwh.

i know what you are saying about validating the decision to A. I, like you, also believe EVERYTHING should be tried first. Sad in my sitch at least was that W walked in late from work one night and just declared the M over, there will be no further discussion. Of course I scrambled for a few weeks trying to get her to at least go to MC. Finally she agreed, just tis shut me up. We got there and she told MC this will be quick -M is over.I don't even want to try, so thats it.

Sadder than that was that a week earlier she initiated discussion that 2015 was going to see serious work on our R because it wasn't good enough. I was ecstatic, I had been waiting 3.5 years for that moment. W expected a different reaction from me, didn't get it, so put on her bad guy boots and did the slaughtering herself.

It clicked in Jan about OM who she had even brought to lunch. She denied it of course, but I uncovered it in February. I understood even back then how the A started. I knew she was angry because she was conflicted etc. Recently, I have felt uneasy and guilty about distracting myself with even thoughts of another woman. several discussions with people on other threads have made me realise that this is AKIN at least to what W must've been through. Although for her it was a full on extra-marital A.

Its taken me 6 months of concerted effort to get to a point when I am hurting again I can pull myself out via OKing this form of distraction. Although this is hard work. Then to maintain it is even further work. I deeply resent being pulled back in. AND this is for me, the LBS!! it must've been hard work for her.

How on earth this kind of effort can seem preferable to MCing, or trying anything - is just beyond me. Maybe it is seriously takes a certain type of person. Maybe OM is that good. Maybe I am that bad. All of the above. Who knows. It doesn't really even matter anymore. D is imminent. R is very unlikely.

it's ironic that now we feel like the WAS. when we reach that point where we know if we give up - then it's over. although, looking from the outside, one could make the observation from one day to the next that R didn't change, W didn't change, nobody even spoke to anyone. The only thing that will change is us. So R, M, has existed in our mind, nowhere else. We are pretending almost that so long as we hold on to hope, then there is hope. But realistically, in cases like mine, and maybe yours, and others where A is in full flight as new R for our WS,

I think the reality is that any chance of R is so far far away that what we do right now in terms of trying to R, practising LRT etc - is almost useless. All that we can do is to leave our hearts open to the possibly of R by not hating them. Not saying never.

[dwh15]

Then, if all else fails, you proceed with D, knowing you gave it your all.

Where in the wedding vows does it state that if the M isn't the way you want it and you feel unhappy, then as long as you think it's failed and you've given your all it's ok to proceed with D?

May seem like I'm nit picking, but to me I feel there is a bigger gap between saying NO to D and making it acceptable conditionally, then it is to discuss the appropriate order of operations when D is acceptable.

Hey, I'm with you Zeus. I didn't mean to imply that I believe in divorce. I think that in almost every M, there is a way to work out the problems. My point was that I would much rather have someone file for D BEFORE getting involved with another person, than the other way around. I think that if 2 people sincerely give it their all, explore every option, and then BOTH come to the mutual conclusion that they would be happier apart, then I've got no problem with a D. It's still not ideal, but I have to believe would be worlds less painful that the reality of ongoing A.