Angels, let me ask you a simple (but critical) question I ask a lot of folks in your similar situation:
Do you think your wife has any credible fear of losing you right now?
No... I guess your right. I think if I said yes to this I would be lying to myself...
Tonight was horrible guys, every time I think I'm doing good and making strides for myself, something happens that just knocks me down. I know what sandi has said in here and I believe her, it's just seeing my wife me so cruel astonishes me. Today, whether it be withdrawal because she actually stopped the A (no proof of and doubt it), the bad day at work, or me mentioning it would be nice if she would get off her phone during dinner. She was in rage mode today. Nothing but attitude. I tried to take it but it was so uncalled for since I did nothing! She just came home and was instantly on attack mode, but I refused to fight. I just took a breath and went upstairs and did all my laundry and cleaned a messy spare room. I did get upset though which I was mad at myself for! Even whispering to myself, why am I getting upset, think of what she's doing to you! But it didn't matter... I have avoided her since dinner where I sat down, watched tv but said nothing. Nobody deserves to be someone else punchy bag (figuritvly). I don't know, I'm sure this is the wrath sand I warns me about but man I was not ready for so much hate out of what seem like nowhere... Today [censored]...
. . .or me mentioning it would be nice if she would get off her phone during dinner. She was in rage mode today. Nothing but attitude. I tried to take it but it was so uncalled for since I did nothing! She just came home and was instantly on attack mode, but I refused to fight. I just took a breath and went upstairs and did all my laundry and cleaned a messy spare room.
Angels, this is where I might suggest you start. Drawing a simple boundary that "I will not tolerate rude and disrespectful behavior," or what I call "crap behavior."
Instead of just refusing to fight, or walking away from the problem, what if you said "I've decided that I will no longer allow you to talk to me so rudely or disrespectfully. When you're ready to calm down and speak to me respectfully like an adult, we can continue this conversation." THEN remove yourself from the room.
There is nothing in DBing that says you have be a doormat, and every time you tolerate your wayward wife's crap behavior, you are further enabling it.
Ok... So I guess they are all tests. I failed, so my question then on something like dinner, should I say, "you made plans, come home!" And stand my ground? Or should I just act like I don't care thus enabling her? I guess I wasn't sure what to do here in this case...
No, you don't say "come home" -- that's pursuing! You leave the table neatly set for 2, put the food away, and then go out for about 4 hours and don't tell her where you went. Don't answer her texts or phone calls while you're out. When you come home (not too late -- like 11ish) and she asks, say "Out to grab a bite and then meet some friends. I would appreciate it if you're not going to be here for dinner next time, that you let me know so I can plan accordingly and not waste the food. Thanks." Not pleading, not scolding -- just civil but businesslike.
Tonight was horrible guys, every time I think I'm doing good and making strides for myself, something happens that just knocks me down. I know what sandi has said in here and I believe her, it's just seeing my wife me so cruel astonishes me.
Angels, are you familiar with The Stockdale Paradox? You can either Google it, or find a link to it in Cadet's "Work" thread. I have found that either the Stockdale Paradox or the famous "You're already dead" scene from Band of Brothers are the best mindsets for successful DBing. They balance action and hopefulness with a simultaneous confrontation of your current brutal reality.
It's okay you know to acknowledge that and to do so here. Let yourself have an "upset time" a good wallow then get fed up with it. Go "whatever" and thump a pillow.
It's confidential to Angels and his chums.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 06/19/1509:10 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Hello Sandi and everyone! I hope you are all doing well on here. Sorry i have not been on updating, i will try to be more frequent with updates when they are big. ALOT has happened (good and bad), so this may be long but i figured it all needed! Also, i need the guys help here also as something new has started and i am not sure what’s up, literally...
So let me just say this, Sandi I reread everything and you have pretty much been spot on with the stuff you have said so please be honest as you understand my position and better, hers. There was been good and bad over the last couple weeks, but dare I say, mostly good in the babay step type of way!? Anyways, I have been applying the DB principles to what I feel fit and seems to be working, Ill admit I have backed off though and need advice on whether I should have or not. Go back two week and it was TERRIBLE, just as things took a turn, as Sandi warned me, we took ten steps back, but now it may be for the better. SO, we have started marriage counseling (Christian consoler), I was going to wait like several of you said but she showed interest so I decided to give it a try and to my surprise she has been engaging, talking, and listening to what’s being shared and even more importantly, she been really talking! After the first session we took the 5 love languages tests together and found out we were clueless. Mine was physical touch and words of affirmation/gift giving. Her’s were acts of service and gift giving, and as you could guess, he low was physical touch and my low was acts of service, who knew? Anyways, we have been trying to better understand this and apply some of the concepts.
SO the first session actually got us talking about real stuff/connecting, albeit it small, but she heavily engaged to my surprise (included the book she wrote on the intake form for it). While things looked good and I thought we took some babysteps, what Sandi warned me of happened, an she went home (actually home) and her mom finally confronted her on everything and apparently did not beat around the bush. Where did I mess up you ask? Sandi warned me of this and after her mom flat out confronter her about everything and how she could be so stupid, etc… (don’t know what was actually shared), my W was FURIOUS! When she came home after that, I got nothing for 2 days, not one word (after having a great week), I asked what happened and she admitting over text to her mom cornering her and how pissed she was and disappointed in me because after the confrontation we decided to not talk to anyone about our issues. Unfortunately I had spoken to her mom before this happened and she held onto it for a month (when I thought I had no options)… needless to say, this canceled all progress and forced me to retreat and once again, apologies for hurting her feelings, potentially damaging their relationship and messing up. Prior to this, I think the DBing and me being quite kind of started to pull her in as she sensed I was serious about leaving, and of course, this put it all back in her court. Anyways, to put it to bed and pick my battles, I went full out in the apology and she did accept it and say ‘thank you ‘. So after that, I managed to slightly recover ( I honestly thought that was it) and keep her around and move past what had happened. This however meant the biggest supports knew what she had done now by cheating on me (exposure). The good from this you ask? She cut off communication from the OM and decided to work on the marriage and give it another go! She has official said this now in counseling when the consoler flat out ask, what about the OM, are you still talking to him because for you to repair your marriage, that must completely end. She agreed and said she has stopped (basically right after the confrontation). So this past week, we are still going to consoling and communicating better than we had in months. I do believe she has stopped talking to OM, she has actually left her phone around more recently when she’s left the room, and computer open. I finished my hall wall project (whats ive been doing to stay busy and not chase her) and she actually made a point to say good job, it looks nice, I like… and then took pictures and posting them on FB tanking me. I believe this is her trying to get the words of affirmation I said I really appreciate when I hear. She been doing this the last couple times I cleaned a room and cooked dinner for us also. While this is small, I believe this is a step of her slightly reengaging, am I right?
Also a HUGE step, we know she has been horrible to me in terms of criticizing prior to the last couple weeks and yelling or getting made at nothing, well thanks to you guys, im not taking it anymore. The other day (her bad lady week), she came home from work where she told me she had a bad day and didn’t sleep well, so I bought her a little ice cream thing after work just because (gift giving), well she exploded totally unexpectedly. She said I had a bad day, again, your overcompensating and I hate it, you don’t need to get me anything, just me be. Well as you can tell, this killed me, but I manned up right then and there and said, “W, you told me you had a bad day and had to work late and yoru insides hurt, I got out early and drove past the ice cream store and got you something to make you feel better, I did nothing to cause you to react like this and it completely uncalled for. All I did was get you a small something to make you feel better on my way home! I am sick of being yelled at when I did nothing wrong to bring it on!”. I then walked out of the house to collect myself (held strong saying that) and worked on painting some doors, well unlike the last 6 months and for the first time, she actually came out of the house and APOLOGIZED! I was dumbfounded, she said she was sorry, she had a bad day and took it out on me, and she actually really liked the ice cream. I didn’t overdo it and just replied, thanks, and continued painting. We acted ok the rest of the night. Again, I think this is a small step in the right direction because a month ago, she would never have come out and apologized to me.
Along with that, we have been non-eventful. She still appears to be not talking to OM and trying to start to work on us, starting come convos and sharing jokes on her phone, asking for help with dinner so we are together in the same room (consoling recommended), and talking about small stuff as well as some future stuff surprisingly, like the house projects, but overall she still feels very distant as I would expect. However, I believe we have started making progress, which is why I wrote all this to fill you all in because I don’t want to mess this up. She is still shying away from intimacy though, so maybe sandi can help me there as too what she may be feeling. She still doesn’t say ‘love you’ unless I do (which I have backed way off), and I think she is grieving the loss of OM, hints the lack on intimacy. Some songs about cheating of, lost loves…etc, she had been playing she is VERY quick to turn off or change I noticed. She did the same thing when ‘the notebook’ or something came on which she used to love.
Anyways, sorry for the book, I hope you take the time to read it, but I wanted to get it out and ensure I convered everything so you all could be caught up and help with more advice. While I may sound like im encouraged, I understand this is a very long road of more ups and downs.
Now for another shorter post which is very embarrassing for me to write about but I guess I need to know if alone, or something else is going on. Maybe some of you, especially guys have gone through this. I know the affair messed me up, but I think it did more than I knew and its hitting me more and more, and its showing physically. I mentioned before she wasn’t intimate still (not to be expected yet perhaps as she mourns her OM loss?) and while she is more than willing to have sex now , she isn’t emotionally connecting like she used too or I need I guess. Needless to say, as we talked about the affair and OM in the consoling, I thought more about it than before. Like sandi mentioned, I was overcome with an urge to have sex since the affair (primal possibly?). Well, after being rejected, thinking about it so much and wanting it to be perfect, I worst of the worst happened, meaning…nothing. For the first time in years, I could get it up. I don’t know if I just didn’t feel the connection or what, but after a spark, it was gone and did not come back. After being humiliated and feeling like a total failure since this is all ive wanting for a week, I was forced to say I couldn’t continue and left to shower (after pleasing her). Well, what I thought couldn’t get worse then happened again the next day. She actually engaged and tried to help (which meant a ton), but still… nothing happening down there. WTF? This is terrible? I think I build it up so much and wanting to do so well her, I have mentally shocked myself or something and now I have performance anxiety. SO has this happened? Is this a stage? I am healthy, so it must be mental and the harder I try to make it happen, the worse it seems to get…
There are some men conditioned to apologize to the W.........in order to continue on. And there are some women who throw fits, give the silent treatment, withhold sex, etc., as a means "to condition" the H. Half the time he has no clue as to what he apologizes for, but he thinks that is his script to follow. With that said, why did you apologize for talking to your MIL, especially since it was done before you and W agreed not to tell anyone? In the future, don't do it, just as way of making peace. Apologize if you have done something wrong,but otherwise, I say the WW will continue blaming everything on you.....whether it's your faul or not. Your MIL is the one who called her out about the A, but your W took it out on you.
You called her out about getting mad over the ice cream thing. Excellent job! Now that you see you did not fall down dead, and in fact had a positive and immediate response from her.......continue going forward.
I tend to be suspicious of any WW who "appears" to clean up her act immediately following the H's confrontation about her A. Usually, she will take the A to a more secretive level.....being sure to not to be caught this time around. I am not saying your WW is not genuine, I am just saying what I have seen in the majority of these same type stories.
Has the MC given you and WW a plan for transparency? Have you actually seen any message she sent OM saying it is over? Has the MC discussed repentance with your WW, or has been more of a "forgive & forget" and now move forward? I am just trying to get a better idea of what's being presented to her.
I hope she is authentic in the effort you see in her. I really do. I realize you want to see progress, and I certainly don't blame for feeling that way. Just try to be emotionally prepared if she backslides. If she truly told OM the A was over, then she the addiction will be pulling at her and the temptation will be tough.
As for the sex issue, you are pushing. I know you can't think like a woman and you see having sex as sealing the deal. It is your way of making progress within the MR. The fact she is even willing is much more than most WW's I have read about. Unless she is high drive, she probably cannot feel connected until she is over OM. In the meantime, you are building the whole intimate thing being the fixer until the pressure is too much. Some of the guys will probably comment, but I'll bet it is not uncommon at all in this type of stitch. Let go of expectations, and give both of you time.
I also hope you will keep us updated, even if it's just to let us know you have not left us.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
