well its been a few days since i last updated so i thought i would post an update about what was going on with me, and the answer is a bit of a not much really.
So XW update first: we had a school visit from D4s new school to my house for which my wife came round for. she was in my house for about an hour and didnt move from a rigid position on the sofa, wouldn't accept a drink even though it was 35 degrees (90s F) and didnt seem able/willing to engage in small talk about anything other than the kids - not even the weather and for a brit that's just weird
saw her again the next day when she came to collect D4, again no conversation. D4 was watching the last 2 minutes of a film and so i invited her to wait inside but she refused saying she wanted to wait on the doorstep as she 'isnt comfortable coming in'. she did complain that it was taking too long but if it was 5 minutes total then i'd be surprised. If I had to speculate its because she now associates this house with all her misery and it reminds her of how awful she felt everything was, but thats just speculation.
she has now booked a holiday with them for the end of summer, i resisted the urge to ask if OM1 is going, because he probably is and what difference does me worrying about it make? (rhetorical)
I'm sticking with being chatty and positive regardless of the reaction i get from her.
me update next. well things are ok, I've been able to start running again which has been good. I've been pretty busy with work and things are going well. I had a surprisingly positive performance review given how shocking my performance was between BD and christmas. my boss said something to the affect of 'you kept your head above water and didnt let anything important drop, given what was going on in your life i couldnt expect anything more'
it made me realise that actually at work i've had a lot of good support from a number of people (they all dislike my XW now). and to think before BD i was thinking of leaving - i didnt realise the good that i have there.
Socially things have dropped off as people all seem just busy doing other things. I could have gone to visit my brother this weekend but didnt feel like it so im home doing chores (like cutting hedges and sorting the junk in the garage).
I keep thinking about how best to move forward with my life, to give it some sense of purpose beyond work and my kids because although im ok, in truth it all feels a little flat. Which is stupid because although things arent as comfortable as they were my life is actually good in nearly every sense.
Mozza, you asked about dating, its a strange thing in that i want a relationship with someone but i really dont want to date. I went on a couple but it just seems too complicated and i was just comparing them to my XW which is never a good thing. I was also reminded how difficult i find it to read people and pick up on signals. I'll stay open to it but who knows what will happen.
I'm not sure where that leaves all this, I suspect it all comes accross like there is something wrong but there really isn't.
Anyway, have a good weekend all and Happy 4th July to all the americans on here, or BD as it was for us in the UK as the geopolitical LBS
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
Hello lovely Jim! I realised the other day I don't ask for editing support from the board much any more. I just tend to reply to my H and be done with it....progress hopefully as I worry rather less what he may think.
Glad to hear from you, and sorry things are feeling a bit flat. Sounds like your W is in a cool phase for sure. It interests me that she remains so phenomenally uncomfortable in your home and presence. It isn't apathy or disinterest for sure and it tells me that she hasn't processed and move on. Strangely the extreme discomfort gives me hope for you. Although I can appreciate it may not feel 'hopeful' when it happens.
Sorry it's a quieter weekend than you would ideally like. That happens to me sometimes and I tend to try and add in another GAL option for longer term fullness of life. The ladies club I am in is linked to the Round Table movement. There is a younger version of what I'm in for 30-45s - separate male and female clubs...but they have some links. Would you consider joining anything like that? I'm enjoying it so far....
Pleased for you on the work front and great that you got a good review (I expected no less ) It's nice that your boss recognises the challenges you have faced and how well you have done. I used the phrase keeping my head above water in my own sitch in the early days. Sometimes that is as much as we can do and I'm pleased to be beyond those days.
As you say Jim, it's just a normal day here. But I'm choosing to celebrate my own 'independence' which I'm enjoying just now. I hope you enjoy getting some jobs done, relaxing, reflecting on life and so on.
Have a good weekend xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Hi Jim. Sounding ok. The work thing is good. If you can get a decent review during your hardest times them that great
Your EXW sounds like she has issues. I often wonder if the WAS over thinks all this as much as us. Your W not coming I to the house feels like she is trying to punish you through punishing herself I could understand if there was a traumatic experience or the like in the past linked to the house but she left for other reasons so who knows.
Re moving forward. This is so personal that I can't even offer advice is there any hobbies that you ever wanted to try ? Any places you would like to visit. Dublin for example. I would love to meet up a discuss each other's W !!!
On the dating thing , I have dabbled but it was not for me The lady was very pretty , very intelligent and seemed interested but it wasn't W and I suppose it never will be. I think it's a case of getting out there and meeting people. Your still a young man and you'll come accross that someone special one day
Questioning your self and your life is a good thing because it means your living for now and not dwelling in the past
Toots, this is one of those rare occasions where i don't agree with you. If she was just uncomfortable around me then i might agree but her view of me is somewhere slightly worse than V's H. she feels like (and has said to other people) she is escaping years of abuse - her sister was actively encouraging her to get the police involved - and so from that perspective I can see why she is uncomfortable but i don't see it as a reason for hope.
V, ^^^ this is one of the reasons i find it very difficult to post on your thread these days. I always read it but simply don't know what to say.
RD, I'm actually visiting Dublin in December. I am planning a holiday for next year when the XW takes the kids to florida I just need to decide where (and work out how to pay for it )
although the where is part of the issue because i've always been more bothered about who i go with rather than where i go. awful places are great in the right company. I'm determined to do something good though.
Toots, I did go to a couple of local round table things but unfortunately the timing just doesn't work with my childcare schedule. I've been going to local meetups when i can but as for something regular then im pretty limited. Its not bad though and I got a bunch of stuff done today - my car will even fit in the garage now.
as for dating, well i may not have RD's allure but I'm sure i'll meet someone at somepoint. until then i can enjoy taking up the whole sofa.
one last thing to correct the balance and agree with Toots. I dont ask for scripting help much anymore either, because i just respond in a friendly way. Its definitely good progress.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
So XW update first: we had a school visit from D4s new school to my house for which my wife came round for. she was in my house for about an hour and didnt move from a rigid position on the sofa, wouldn't accept a drink even though it was 35 degrees (90s F) and didnt seem able/willing to engage in small talk about anything other than the kids - not even the weather and for a brit that's just weird
It is my belief, based on my reading of DB and some therapy, that your wife is engaged in an argument with you. She is making a point: she resents you deeply and wants you to agree that you have hurt her. She may not say it in words, but she speaks with her actions. Not talking about the weather is a good example of someone sending a message. "Don't change the topic." Same for not coming inside the home. I don't buy into the idea that it gives her flashbacks. She acts angry, not fragile.
Originally Posted By: Mozza
I'm sticking with being chatty and positive regardless of the reaction i get from her.
If my theory is correct, then this is not the ideal reaction because it is your way of holding to your part of the argument with her. She tells you: "Things are bad and awful, you hurt me and you will suffer for what you've done!" and your attitude responds "Nope, things are good!" Every time you say "Bloody rain, right?" she hears "Get over it". It tells her that you don't hear her, that you don't get what she's trying to say, that you're trying to move along.
It's like the silent treatment. One wants the other to understand something through the silence. They will stay away, or walk loudly with their lips tightly shut, or openly avoid discussion such as at the kitchen table. These are all very loud messages, communications. Now imagine that in response to the silent treatment, the other spouse is chatty and positive. The silent spouse will be even more offended and will try harder to make the chatty spouse understand that the situation is serious, most likely that they have been hurt and it calls for an acknowledgement and atonement.
You might say that you've already told her that you realize how much you've hurt her and that you've apologized at length for it. It is likely not sufficient for her. It doesn't match the hurt you caused her. It would be a cop out. Talking is cheap. I'm not even sure what would be the right way for you to act, but it would have to be something that tells her "You're right". Maybe what you need to do is to stop offering her what she doesn't want, what feels like you're ignoring her pain. No more "come inside" or "what a lovely day, surely it won't last". It doesn't mean to be less cordial.
I can't seem to develop this idea entirely at the moment, but hopefully it is some food for thought already.
Originally Posted By: jim0987
Mozza, you asked about dating, its a strange thing in that i want a relationship with someone but i really dont want to date. I went on a couple but it just seems too complicated and i was just comparing them to my XW which is never a good thing. I was also reminded how difficult i find it to read people and pick up on signals. I'll stay open to it but who knows what will happen.
I'll agree that if you're still looking for your WW, then you're not ready. I had the same inclination, and pretty intense, for months on end. I found every other women to be ugly. It passed. It had to. I don't think I could have dated prior to this. How do you expect that it will pass? Just time or anything active that you can do?
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
If you are finding it hard to post to my thread then that is saying something to you. There is a resistance to acceptance of something for you.
It's ok, just say 'hi' and I can post back. Jim, You have been very influential in my journey and i say that with enormous gratitude.
Abuse is hard to write about and to read the story is very tough too. In many ways that has been very open raw and confusion which is naked in its discussion. It is as it is.
All of this is going to be a great deal of work and requires support, not all of us have a quickly finished journey. There is much to know and learn .
Jim, you are a wonderful young man and father with great depth and insight, I just wish you could see that which I see, love, kindness and strength.
Take your time, it's going to be alright in the end.
Great hugs and peace
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Jim, I agree with V! It's interesting that your W sees things in that way. I had forgotten how she sees things in that regard, but now you say, I do recall that.
With the passage of time and given her perception and feedback, how do you feel about your behaviour and approach during the M? I recall your W felt you weren't there for her when her Dad died, and I can see she might find it hard to forgive that. What were the other 'worst' things she felt you did and didn't do? (feel free if you don't want to go there if it is painful or an unwanted avenue.)
As Mozza says, regardless of attracting back your W, do you feel happy within yourself that you have apologised and made amends for your part in the M dynamics?
Interesting what you say about being reluctant to post on the abuse thread. Perhaps that in itself may be a good reason to do just that. Remember Jim, you are among friends here.
Take care, T xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Toots its not any more painful whether i talk about it or not. It hurts to think that she feels like that about me when i know full well how much i have always loved her and how i never wished to hurt her.
when I tried to talk to her she has always said theres no point because its all in the past. All i ever got was 'you were just so awful' 'you were never there for me' 'you always let me down' but not really much in the way of specifics.
what i found out from snooping in those first couple of months is that she described me as 'controlling, abusive and mean' and that I 'drove a wedge between her family and friends'
So I started to list this then backed off because it didn't seem worth it as I've said it all before and so tried to summarizes but then realized that I'm doing that because its really uncomfortable for me because it looks awful in a list like that and without balance.
but to avoid all that and take some responsibility i need to not duck it. so here it is (Caution: lengthy)
- when we thought she had a miscarriage (she didnt and d4 came along). I took her to hospital and stayed until the doctors said everything was fine. they wanted to run some more tests and she should stay but I had to go to work. XW said it was ok so i went and she had to get a cab home. Dr said it was fine so in my mind it was just a scare, i entirely didn't recognise the emotional impact the scare had.
- after D4 was born, she got really homesick (i still believe she suffered from PND) and wanted to move back home (about 3hrs away). I said that i would only move when we found jobs to go to. I didnt want to give up my career to go and be with her family.
- after the hen night incident (she met her ex boyfriend and lied about it) i didnt react well. I spent a a few weeks not feeling comfortable using the loving nickname i always used for her so stopped which i knew hurt her but carried on anyway.
- after the wedding, and over a couple of months, I also asked a lot of questions about her past (this was my insecurities coming through) and discovered a lot of stuff that i didnt know about her past including physical abuse (we were married by this point). I struggled to process and sort some help from an IC but actually the IC suggested a bunch of stuff that seemed to make things worse.
My XW has said that over this period i 'obliterated' her self esteem.
- shortly afterward her dad died. while we were down for the last few days of his life i found myself isolated with D4 (who was 1 at the time) while XW was close to her family. I felt very shut out and became very withdrawn. on the day he died they decided we all should go to a park for a walk (which had very bad associations for me in relation to XW). I was very withdrawn at the park but that was fine as they didnt want to engage with me. a few things happened and we then had a row in the park about how she was ignoring me and our daughter.
- This affected her grieving for her dad and she has said she felt like she couldnt cry in front of me. This is mainly because when she did i had no idea how to comfort her and so did what i always do which is try to use humour to lighten the mood and do practical things. I can give a lengthy explanation of why this is but lets just say she didnt feel supported by me even though in my mind i was really trying.
- when S2 was born she was really struggling but i only took 2 weeks paternity leave, she wanted me to take more but i didnt feel i could.
- She regularly complained that i had said something to upset her or have a dig, she would say i just chipped away at her. But i still dont understand what i said or did. often she said it when i felt she had just had a go at me about something.
- she complained about the way we dealt with some things in the house like deciding what colour to paint a wall. I always suggested a compromise which meant she didnt get what she wanted but she just saw that as me getting my way.
- when she was sad or in a mood (which felt like all the time) i didn't really engage with her on it, i just kind of pretend it wasn't happening and tried to be positive. this was me being conflict avoidant.
- she felt like i had put to much pressure on her with her work, i thought i was being supportive and encouraging by suggesting she could easily go for promotion and do her bosses job, she felt i was pressuring her. (she has since had said promotion)
- fairly regularly, when we went to see her family (once a month) I would have some sort of sulk usually again because i would just end up on childcare duty (sometimes for our 2 plus SIL's 2) being ignored by everyone else. by sulk i mean withdrawn and a bit grumpy.
- I would also sulk when i felt like XW was going against something i thought we had agreed in relation to raising the kids
- by the last year there was a bunch of other stuff in our relationship dynamic that triggered me to be withdrawn and grumpy, for example comments to make clear there was no chance of sex when i'd only tried to hug, if i was asked my opinion then getting a lengthy explanation of why my opinion was wrong, and just a bunch of other little stuff.
- ultimately we both just felt we were walking on egg shells, me because it felt like nothing was ever good enough and i just wanted her to be interested in us (I thought just keep giving her time and space and it will be fine). her because she though i would have a sulk and say something mean.
- I absolutely never told her anywhere near enough how much i loved her, was proud of her and wanted our life together to work out
So although that's 4 years compressed its pretty terrible reading from my perspective. i do think i see far worse regularly in couples that seem happy, but ultimately she didn't feel like i was there for her in any kind of emotionally supportive way - and in truth i wasn't I didn't/don't know how (certainly wasn't a lack of willingness on my part).
so the learning points for me: - I don't tackle things directly, i ask questions and am more circumspect - I was never clear about how i was feeling with XW except when it was very negative - i need to learn to recognize emotions in other people and much more appropriate reactions (the support I've received since BD has really opened my eyes to what comforting looks like) - I need to be much, MUCH, more aware of how what i say do, makes people think and feel - I need to sulk less, preferably never. - and i need to remember that i don't know what is going on in other peoples heads.
i'm just going to say this for clarity. I've never hit her or raised a hand, I've never called her names, I've rarely sworn in front of her and rarely raised my voice to her. I wasn't disparaging about her nor dismissive of the things she did. I was supportive of her ambitions and i didn't control the finances and i certainly haven't run up debts. I don't gamble, smoke do drugs or drink and i did plenty round the house and have been fully involved with my kids since the day the were born and a half dozen times she phoned me in tears at work to say she couldnt cope and so i dropped everything and came home.
So in terms of apology, well i have said it and i wrote her a letter a few weeks after BD, apologising. I do feel genuine remorse for all of the above and wish i could go back and do so much so different not just for the sake of our M but because she deserved so much more and so much better.
OM1 is the big discrepancy here in that we both know she has lied extensively about him and his involvement and because i'm not willing to say i agree she was right to leave and that OM1 had nothing to do with it then i dont think she will ever be satisfied with the level of apology - I feel she wants absolution rather than an apology.
as for why i find it difficult to post on V's thread - well i think thats for a different day but i have a better understanding of why it is
No idea if that helps or is even interesting but hopefully answers your question Toots. For me it is why i don't have any hope for my situation even if reconciliation is still what i want
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
