So, here is my story. My wife and I are both 33, married 7 years, together and living together for a total of 12. Two Ds 8, 4.
I found out beginning of May that my wife was having an affair with a coworker. It has been emotional since March and physical since April. She has said she has stopped having sex with him since I found out. I think I believe that, although she has admitted that she continues to kiss him ( she hasn't kissed me since I've found out).
They see each other at work everyday and there is nothing that can be done about that from me - and I know that. They still text all day and she has recently sent some sexy pics. She says that she doesn't want to end the affair - but she also says she sees no future with him. She wants to love me again, it just feels different now.
I have been as understanding and positive as I can be. I have been practicing the DR steps and work very hard to always "act as if".
She has said she loves me but is not in love with me. Though she also says she wants to be - and wants to feel the way she feels for the OM with me - she just doesn't right now, only feels like we're best friends.
Our relationship disconnected because we've been apart a lot - I work very long hours and we haven't spent much time together in the past few months which is different from how we had been for years. She got lonely, bored, and felt I wasn't feeling attracted and connected with her - in reality I was trying to get through this heavy work period for the family, but clearly I didn't make as big an effort to continue to do loving things as I should/could have. I worry about detaching too much and doing things apart because I feel that was a major contributor to where we are today. She wants to continue to do things with me for the most part - so I have been encouraging that.
She wants to leave her job (and has for a while). We are waiting to hear on a very possible job opportunity any day - but there is no guarantee the affair will end when she leaves - but I think the physical separation would certainly help greatly and perhaps knock her out of her A fog.
We started couples therapy beginning the week after I found out. She was resistant at first (she only admitted that two weeks ago) but is now accepting to go and thinks it can be helpful though she usually leaves feeling guilty for hurting me with honesty in our sessions. She insists she wants to work on our marriage but also admits that she doesn't feel like she's trying 100%. But really, how could she if she's still involved in the A? That is the wall affecting true reconciliation.
We have been doing date nights each weekend away from the kids D8 and D4. That has allowed us some very good connecting time. We do things together in the morning before work which is very nice for both of us - but it's hard to then leave her at work where I know she's right back in the midst of seeing and texting him.
Things seem to get better and then other times I feel her disconnection as we fall back a step or two. We have a two night weekend together for a wedding which we've both been looking for.
Part of one of my 180s is that I've dramatically reduced the number of times I come home late. I get home and much more reasonable times and we get to spend our evening together. Talking about all sorts of things including the A from time to time. We've really been enjoying our evening times. We talk about the future, including planning a trip for XMas. She usually brings up the future talk.
She had previously said she didn't talk with him when home (she gets home earlier than I do) - but I've discovered this past week she had 20, 30, 40 minutes conversations after getting home. Then texting and pics sometimes too. She is almost always the one to initiate the texting and phone calls.
I've given her understanding while she works out what she wants and she has thanked me for that. I'm holding on as best I can, but it is hard.
I'm holding out A LOT of hope that this new job comes through. She is ready to put in her two weeks if it does. She won't leave her job if she doesn't have this new one to go to. I'm afraid I will be devastated if the job falls through.
That being said, I'm trying to continue to act as if in all my interactions with her (some days more successfully than others). I've tried to give her understanding while she "figures things out". We've been doing things to continue to rekindle our relationship away from the kids. However, I think we are both on pause until this job decision comes through.
I feel like I should be more forceful with boundaries of calls/texts at home. But I also don't want to push her away with too much pressure. Do I swallow it wait and for another week or two as the job works itself out? If she gets out of her job, things could resolve (though not guaranteed). Do I insist on more strict boundaries now? I don't want to push the relationship underground and inspire more desire of the forbidden. Knowing she is cake eating is hard - but she does not respond well to anger, judgement, or pushing. She withdraws.
A homework assignment from our therapy had us (independently) listen and take notes for therapy discussion to a TED talk by Esther Perel - 'Esther Perel Rethinking Infidelity ... A Talk for Anyone Who Has Ever Loved'. It was interesting. We both acknowledge that our first marriage is over - we have the opportunity to create a second marriage together. Do we want to? She doesn't know yet.
I know I can't force the affair to end - and even if I could it wouldn't be genuine. She has to choose to end it - and if she can - I know we can heal, grow, and be stronger for it. It's the waiting that's killing me. I know it's a marathon, but I also feel like I've been on a full sprint since May.
I'm sure I'm doing some things wrong on my DR journey. But I do feel some aspects of my sitch is unique and is different from some of the other posts I've read. I would be curious to hear any feedback from the other senior members of this community. I'm sure there are important details I've omitted unintentionally.
I just so hope and pray this job comes through asap.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
t33 sorry you are here ... reading this I trust you have read the books.
Just a few things I see, advice I can give ...
Your wife is in an A, I would not trust a single word, not one ... Believe NONE of what they say and only 50% of what they do .. I have found this is a safe thing to live by while they are wayward.
Biggest issue ... MC while your W is actively in an affair is a COMPLETE waste of time and $$$ .... stop now, you really need to DB here first, if your wife wants to commit to you and the M, she will end the affair, agree to full transparency and write a NC letter, let me save you a year of hurt here and do not make that mistake like I did.
The job ... yeah .. putting hopes that will end the A is similar to changing your shirt to stop smoking. But you are spot on .. she needs to end this, it will run its course or won't but you allowing her to cake eat, there is no reason for her to end the A, she gets all the stability with you and her emotional and physical needs met by him .... they are not sleeping together but she admits they continue to kiss and you are ok with this>???? Time to set some boundaries ... serious ones.
REad Cadets homework ... read a few twice!!
Sandi's 37 Detaching GAL
Post here often ... tons of very smart people will help you
I am a former WW, and I try to share with Newcomers (mostly the husbands)the mindset of a WW, and what does & doesn't work on their wives while they are wayward. I hope you will read this thread I wrote about wayward wives. In those three threads, I think some things about your stitch may be explained. http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554
Your W will NEVER fall in love with you as long as she has the OM. She may tolerate you, may even have sex with you.....but she's not going to feel romantic/sexual attraction for both of you at the same time.
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She says that she doesn't want to end the affair
Of course she doesn't want to end it. It is exciting, thrilling, makes her feel alive, and feeds her ego. It is also highly addictive! As long as she is in contact with OM, it's doubtful she can end the A. It would be like an alcoholic trying to give up the booze while drinking a bottle every day.
You won't be able to reason with her. The WW is not logical (just listen to some of the explanations she gives) so, you are wasting your breath trying to get her to see things rationally.
The WW operates strictly from emotions. Her emotions will override everything else. Her moral standards, her spiritual values/beliefs, her family ties, her reputation, etc.
All cheaters lie. Got that one from my friend, Starsky. I once tried to get around it by saying I never told my H a lie. Verbally, maybe not. Deceived him? Very much! Same thing, it's all a lie.
Don't listen to what she says, her actions will give her away. Same goes for you. She won't listen to anything you say, but she will notice your actions.
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I worry about detaching too much
I think every newcomer LBH says this. It is b/c you don't fully understand DBing detachment. Read the link Cadet gave you about it. It's an attitude. A way of thinking.
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She wants to leave her job (and has for a while). We are waiting to hear on a very possible job opportunity any day - but there is no guarantee the affair will end when she leaves - but I think the physical separation would certainly help greatly and perhaps knock her out of her A fog.
Staying away from OM is absolutely necessary. However, if they stay in touch by phone, email, etc., it won't help much for her to leave the job. Affairs, unfortunately, knows no distance. I doubt she's ended the physical with him. She is stalling you, is all. She is appeasing him by sending sexy pictures, but sooner or later, he will push for much more.
She sees no future with him. That means she sees him as a security risk. You are her security, he is her thrill. She wants both, and gets both. Part from you, and part from him. Pretty standard stuff for a WW, which we call cake eating.
Case in point......
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She has said she loves me but is not in love with me. Though she also says she wants to be - and wants to feel the way she feels for the OM with me - she just doesn't right now, only feels like we're best friends.
OM is her lover, while you are her BFF. Maybe you should consider leaving the friend zone, while she's being unfaithful. When she decides to commit to the M, you can resume being her friend again.
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We started couples therapy beginning the week after I found out. She was resistant at first (she only admitted that two weeks ago) but is now accepting to go and thinks it can be helpful though she usually leaves feeling guilty for hurting me with honesty in our sessions. She insists she wants to work on our marriage but also admits that she doesn't feel like she's trying 100%. But really, how could she if she's still involved in the A? That is the wall affecting true reconciliation.
Look T33, she can't have it both ways. Any intelligent adult knows you can't have an affair and a honest/loving MR at the same time. That shows you just how irrational she is. Those are her emotions in control of her decisions.
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We have been doing date nights each weekend away from the kids D8 and D4. That has allowed us some very good connecting time. We do things together in the morning before work which is very nice for both of us - but it's hard to then leave her at work where I know she's right back in the midst of seeing and texting him.
You are the one who is feeling the need to reconnect with her. This would have been fantastic if it had been before she had OM on the side. She can't even be respectful enough to wait to text him when she's with you. What does that tell you? I'll tell you what this former WW sees. I see this ain't working for ya.
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Part of one of my 180s is that I've dramatically reduced the number of times I come home late. I get home and much more reasonable times and we get to spend our evening together. Talking about all sorts of things including the A from time to time. We've really been enjoying our evening times. We talk about the future, including planning a trip for XMas. She usually brings up the future talk
Seriously, how can you discuss her affair with her? What's to say other than you are not willing to stay in an open marriage (unless you are). That is exactly what she's suggesting when she says all that BS to you.
Please read the 37 rules, to get a basic idea of what actions work and doesn't work.
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I'm holding out A LOT of hope that this new job comes through. She is ready to put in her two weeks if it does. She won't leave her job if she doesn't have this new one to go to. I'm afraid I will be devastated if the job falls through.
You are setting yourself up for defeat. You see, you are placing all your hope that the A ends and the M will be fixed by her getting another job. That's like wanting someone else to come in and do the work for us. She is addicted! You cannot afford to hold out waiting for this type of stuff to fix the problem. There is only one thing that really works, and that will be what T33 does. I know what she's going to do. But what are you going to do? You can't depend on anyone else or anything else to do the hard work for you. Know what I mean? Put your hope in your God and plan to do the heavy lifting for yourself.
I believe the therapy sessions you and W are presently attending will serve no purpose. This is more of her stalling tactics. However, once the A has ended and she decides to commit to the M....then the therapy will be needed and can play a big part in piecing the M back successfully.
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I know I can't force the affair to end - and even if I could it wouldn't be genuine. She has to choose to end it - and if she can - I know we can heal, grow, and be stronger for it. It's the waiting that's killing me.
So that's your game plan? To wait and see if she decides to end it? What if she doesn't.....then what? What if things get much worse (and they definitely can)......then what?
No, you can't force her to do much of anything. Does that place her in the driver's seat of your M? If you think it does......then you have a big problem. Hope you will rethink it and decide to learn how to drive.
You are petting and catering to an adulteress (to be blunt). How much respect do you think she has for you right now? Let me tell you about women. They are designed in such a way that they must respect their H in order to feel in love with him. Therefore, before you can hope to create any type of loving second marriage, you will have to do the necessary things to get back her respect. I promise you that no wife respects a husband who she can cheat on. Remember these words, respect = love. That applies to all wives. Even in the old arranged marriages, if they respected the H, the love eventually came. Now days, H's focus on getting the love first. He's missing that vital ingredient required for that special bonded love we call marriage.....her respect. Get that back, and most the battle is won.
With all that I've said, please don't give up now. You have so much to learn. Everyone has to learn it. It takes time to learn everything about DBing. The more you post, the more responses you'll receive and you need the support right now. I am more of an information type, I guess? But we have wonderful people here who are so great with encouraging and will give you support, if you will stick with us.
P.S. Please don't do anything rash, (regardless of whatever you read or the therapist may say), before you run it by the board. It helps to avoid a lot of mistakes.
OMG, this is as long as one of 25yrsmlc posts. (jk)
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Wow, lots of food for thought. Thank you both CaliGuy and sandi2. I have been reading the posts and stickies and will continue to do so.
Boundaries are a neccesity, but how to get there.
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Your W will NEVER fall in love with you as long as she has the OM. She may tolerate you, may even have sex with you.....but she's not going to feel romantic/sexual attraction for both of you at the same time.
I understand this and agree with it. I fully feel like it is an addiction she is under. I can make changes in myself and I feel like I have, but I realize that she is the one who will need to make the choice that she needs to end it and "get help". How does this happen when she is under the fog of the affair and getting her fix?
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You won't be able to reason with her. The WW is not logical (just listen to some of the explanations she gives) so, you are wasting your breath trying to get her to see things rationally.
The WW operates strictly from emotions. Her emotions will override everything else. Her moral standards, her spiritual values/beliefs, her family ties, her reputation, etc.
Her emotions are overriding everything. At what point does that emotional shift happen? Does she have to start to see the loss of things (other than me) to get her to jolt out of the fog?
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I worry about detaching too much
I think every newcomer LBH says this. It is b/c you don't fully understand DBing detachment. Read the link Cadet gave you about it. It's an attitude. A way of thinking.
I've re-read this and feel like I understand it a bit better. It's not about detaching from her in the sense of us (i.e. cold shoulder). It's more about detaching myself from the situation so I don't lose my mind. Beyond that there is many more aspects from that thread. My fear comes from making sure I'm doing a proper detachment while not giving so much space as to let the initial relationship problems come back.
I had been working 14-16 hour days for the last few months (getting home at 10-11pm, etc.), and a big problem has been that I haven't been around. I 180'd by changing my work schedule so I could get out at 6 or 7pm more often than not and be around for the family and for my wife. She mentioned how surprised she was by my change and my consistency. She thought I'd have done it for 2 weeks and things would have gone back to the way they were, but they haven't. I feel this has been a positive step forward. I suppose detaching and GAL could entail me doing some activity at home alone - working out or a bike ride, or something. Am I on the right track?
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Staying away from OM is absolutely necessary. However, if they stay in touch by phone, email, etc., it won't help much for her to leave the job. Affairs, unfortunately, knows no distance.
Agreed, but I think losing the flare of seeing him at work every day will absolutely help. But maybe it's just wishful thinking.
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She is appeasing him by sending sexy pictures, but sooner or later, he will push for much more.
Agreed again. She told him she may be leaving her job. He told her he loved her. He's fully investing in trying to keep things going - but why wouldn't he when he has easy access to a little fun.
He currently lives with his ex-wife and 2 kids. She says it's because he couldn't bare to be away from the kids. I've heard that it's because he couldn't afford alimony/child support and this was an easier solution. She doesn't want his family to find out because of the kids and doesn't want another family to be ruined because of this. Ironic.
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She sees no future with him. That means she sees him as a security risk. You are her security, he is her thrill. She wants both, and gets both. Part from you, and part from him. Pretty standard stuff for a WW, which we call cake eating.
...and right now I'm the baker.
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OM is her lover, while you are her BFF. Maybe you should consider leaving the friend zone, while she's being unfaithful. When she decides to commit to the M, you can resume being her friend again.
Again my fears come from a major cause of the situation occurring because I hadn't been a good friend/husband for the last few months. I'm trying to show by actions why I should be Plan A instead of Plan B. I feel like it's important for us to do things and enjoy each other again, when we haven't for a while. But maybe this is the wrong tact...
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So that's your game plan? To wait and see if she decides to end it? What if she doesn't.....then what? What if things get much worse (and they definitely can)......then what?
No, you can't force her to do much of anything. Does that place her in the driver's seat of your M? If you think it does......then you have a big problem. Hope you will rethink it and decide to learn how to drive.
That is the question, isn't it? How do I get back the respect? I suppose it's about building in boundaries. So, what do I do.
I think I should talk with her about no communication while she's at home and with the family. I can't control what she does at work, but while she's at home, there has to be a no contact policy. I don't want it to be an ultimatum, but it has to be something that is respected. She has to have that respect for me, for our kids, for the family.
She'll probably say, "she'll try" - but I should "Act as If".
So I brought up respect and boundaries at home. She admitted to talking and texting with him at home, but said she doesn't want to stop. We agreed to table the discussion until therapy tomorrow night. I know this is a stalling tactic, but I agreed anyways. I'm not sure how to proceed if she's not willing to accept the boundaries.
Do I insist on this boundary? I don't want to make it an ultimatum.
How do I enforce it? Take away her phone and credit cards? I'm trying to earn respect, but I don't want to come across rash, pressuring, vindictive, or punishing.
I also think we need to take some time away from talking about the affair. We didn't talk about it at all over the weekend and it was good. But maybe that is for after the affair has ended and we move into healing time. Is is the wrong time now to give a pause from the constant talk and stress of talking about it?
She still talks about future plans and Christmas vacation. I don't bring it up - so it feels like there is a part of her that is conflicted and still wants to assume things will go back to the way they were.
I also know she is in pause mode waiting on this job. Job or no job, the affair could continue, but it certainly feels like she's trying to figure out what to do when she's no longer there (i.e. phone calls and texts from home) whereas she didn't before.
I'm still struggling on the detachment and 37 rules. Don't schedule dates, don't start conversations and be scarce with words, pull back, etc. These are all the things that led to our relationship disconnecting. I realize we are in a state of disconnection and won't be able to reconnect until the affair is over, but it seems backwards to continue to do what wasn't working for the past few months. I feel that I 180'd into somebody who spends more time with my wife, talks more, about feelings (not necessarily about the affair), etc. I haven't brought up my changes, but she has mentioned that she's noticed them and that it's a good thing.
I realize that right now I am the Plan B. I just want to be careful that my actions don't reinforce being Plan B.
---- So, updates happening as I've been trying to finish this post.
Good things and I'm sure not good.
She keeps wanting the job to call her. I suggested she put in her two weeks notice regardless of the job. If it happens great, and perhaps she gets some vacation time with DDs. If the job doesn't come, she still has time to be with the girls for the summer.
A bit more than an hour later, she messaged me that she decided to give her 2 weeks notice. Now she hasn't submitted it yet, so we'll see what happens.
Beyond that, she said she ended it with the OM. The not so good is how she ended it I suppose...
About 15 minutes before telling me, she messaged him and told him she decided to give her two weeks notice. She said to him:
--- W: Wanted to let you know that I'm planning on giving my 2 weeks soon  OM: OK
W: One final question  W: Ready?  OM: Sorry to see you go
W: Would you ever consider.... W: Having a relationship with me?  OM: Wish we could OM: It would have been nice  W: Thanks. You just made it easy for me.
OM: To quit?
W: Both you and work  W: Know this... W: I love you ---
So, I know this isn't the ideal sense of closure. But, I have to grab onto something, right? I know there is a high likelihood of relapse. But what can I do but hold onto the DR steps, continue with my 180s, and work towards refilling the love and passion buckets with my wife?
I know I need to make sure I don't act too exciting and overwhelming. This isn't a flip switch, magical moment. Yet. I have to maintain no expectations for now.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
"Do I insist on this boundary? I don't want to make it an ultimatum."
Yes. It's not an ultimatum. It's what you can tolerate and you're not controlling her. She's more than welcome to talk or text OUTSIDE the home but not in the one place where you feel safe.
"How do I enforce it? Take away her phone and credit cards? I'm trying to earn respect, but I don't want to come across rash, pressuring, vindictive, or punishing."
That would be controlling her. If she insists on calling the OM on her cell phone, then stop payment on the phone if you're paying for it and tell her to get her own phone. Same as credit cards. If she's using them to pay for things for the OM, then don't pay for them. Simple as that.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I will spare you the 2x4's for the moment ... or not.
Its good you have intel, and let me tell you from experience ... use my 2 years of this in some way. IF ... and thats a HUGE IF the W ended it with OM, there are strong relapse chance, she just pulled the drug needle out of her veins and very well will want that back .. I lost count with my WW she had over 6 break ups .. sometimes I think they do that to have that rush of 'fixing' it and all that comes with it.
Lets say for the sake of argument she did end it .... get ready for her withdrawls ... depression... sadness as she mourns the end of her AFFAIR.
I have mentioned I would not go to MC till I knew ... I feel that you are all to ready to let her off the hook and allow her back into the M to easily ... what will she learn here? Oh I had the A, but t33 really did not seem to mind so a OM2 could VERY well be an option .. you need to DB my frend .. if you have problems, questions, concerns ... I have not seen a presented issue posted here that one of the wise vets did not have a solution nor approach to .... its up to you to use these resources ... I can tell you I would have NO SHOT at repairing my marriage (Which I am currently doing) without several people here .. I honestly can tell you that.
Do not think you have it figured out and your W is different ... do not make that mistake. She is wayward and has not shown remorse .. you have allowed a cake eat fest ... I have yet to see a WW niced back into the marriage.
Does she respect you? Is she afraid of losing you? What has changed to make her stop her A .... other than OM not wanting a R ... she is still wayward.
But we have wonderful people here who are so great with encouraging and will give you support, if you will stick with us. 
