as_it_is - my adventure continues

[asitis]

Thanks for the kind words NDY. It is odd sometimes during this process to be perceived as strong, as sometimes it doesn't seem that way. I tend to be hard on myself though.

One of the things I still find myself doing is focusing on the W and waiting for her contacts as if they are sooo important and full of significance that I have to parce through the encounter to figure out what it all means. Still find myself using my kids as an excuse to initiate contact. Still struggle with ending a conversation when I should and not persisting or even coming back after to add one more thing.

But there are also times when I am really proud that I was able to just sit with the emotions an encounter brought out, really deal with them, get past the temptation to react or make a dig, and get back to my happiness. It took realizing that my being miserable was not helping anyone, then working over and over to turn that into practice of sitting with the feelings until they were processed and I could have the emotional space to gain perspective and my PMA. Hard work, and definitely pays dividends not just in dealing w/ S.

[NDY]

Q

Thanks for the kind words NDY. It is odd sometimes during this process to be perceived as strong, as sometimes it doesn't seem that way. I tend to be hard on myself though.

yea. I know what you mean. I kinda do this too.

One of the things I still find myself doing is focusing on the W and waiting for her contacts as if they are sooo important and full of significance that I have to parce through the encounter to figure out what it all means. Still find myself using my kids as an excuse to initiate contact. Still struggle with ending a conversation when I should and not persisting or even coming back after to add one more thing.

This I'm getting better at. Funny, NC as it was explained early on was supposed to be about the WAS missing you. Turned out it helped me not do ^ this.

But there are also times when I am really proud that I was able to just sit with the emotions an encounter brought out, really deal with them, get past the temptation to react or make a dig, and get back to my happiness. It took realizing that my being miserable was not helping anyone, then working over and over to turn that into practice of sitting with the feelings until they were processed and I could have the emotional space to gain perspective and my PMA. Hard work, and definitely pays dividends not just in dealing w/ S.

This. For me, some days are better than others. These days I'm so much better than I was just a few months ago. Sure, I still struggle and every now and again miss my W but I'm getting better at it. I do find it difficult to have a PMA around my W. Everyone else? No problem but not WW. I MUST learn to not let her get to me. Man she knows how to push my buttons.

[asitis]

We have a long time to learn just how to push each other's buttons, and get very good at it when we are hurting and feel the need to defend our egos.

What helped you w/ sticking to NC and not waiting around for contact, using kids as excuse, & not parsing every encounter for meaning?

[Cadet]

Will you mind if I merge this thread with your last one?
It does make it easier to follow.

[asitis]

Will you mind if I merge this thread with your last one?
It does make it easier to follow.

Sure, whatever works. I thought having a new shorter thread w/ the link to the first made sense, but I'll defer to the old pro on this.

[NDY]

We have a long time to learn just how to push each other's buttons, and get very good at it when we are hurting and feel the need to defend our egos.

What helped you w/ sticking to NC and not waiting around for contact, using kids as excuse, & not parsing every encounter for meaning?

While waiting for cadet to merge your threads.

A couple of things. First, these boards. Many a time is talk about what my W was saying/doing and it all came down to either detach or get out of her way. Second, my support network. Yes, I've read DR and I get the well intentioned friends bit but I also get that some of the 4x2's I was getting was simple. Let it go. Lastly, the favourite of believe nothing of what they say and only 50% of what they do.

I know I'm not articulating myself very well. But when I really started to GAL it took my mind off it. I tend to concentrate a lot at work. Wasn't easy at first and I still come here during office hours but I've also realised that puting up messages and helping with responses here has helped a lot.

Not so long ago we used to get lost in email trails. Now it's easier to just not do anything until the DB forum support network kicks in. They tend to be right on the money.

[asitis]

I especially like the go to the forum before responding on when I feel I'm waiting around for contact, and especially for the wtf does this mean. You're right that a lot of the time even if we know not to try to read into something too much, it takes a kick in the pants from someone else to get us to actually do it. I find it very easy to see this in someone else's post, but still have trouble applying it to myself (a lot easier to see when it isn't so emotionally important and you aren't so entangled as it is when it is someone else's sitch).

Thanks for the tips & reminders.

[NDY]

Mate. All I can say is this forum has been a life saver. Wonka is the best at constructing responses to messages. And I find jumping in on other threads helps me so much. I wish I found this place 8 months ago.

So yea, we get conflicting advice on here but usually there is one path that suits. I haven't found that yet. I still struggle with the advice on dealing with an A, and at the same time having PMA around the W. Respect gets mentioned a LOT so how to garner respect?

Pretty bloody hard to fathom out.

[asitis]

I haven't found that yet. I still struggle with the advice on dealing with an A, and at the same time having PMA around the W. Respect gets mentioned a LOT so how to garner respect?

Pretty bloody hard to fathom out.

I hear you on the PMA & respect. That was hard, and there is no sign of an A in my W's case. I can say that it starts with self-respect, and respecting the W's feelings even if you disagree with them. She is feeling them even if they seem crazy or f*ed up. Also, as I have seen my W struggling and realized that I have had a lot of good help to develop practices to deal w/ this, that my W is basically trying to paddle a canoe wo/ a paddle. Yes, she has an IC, but she hasn't faced all her issues nor plunged into dealing them w/ the zeal I have. I've learned so much during the past year, from meditation practices, sitting with feelings to work through them, to the kind of self-help stuff we are reading and practicing, to these boards. I feel a lot of sadness and compassion for my W even while she continues to blame me and our M for all her problems unfairly, even as she re-writes our history, even as she refuses to stand up and do the hard work that an R requires and is in keeping w/ her long-held values. She is doing this without the tools I now have access to. It also could be a lot worse between us, and while I think much of the credit goes to me, I respect her for not taking us down that path (yet) despite her obvious pain and MLC. I see and read about how many other couples handle this stuff, and I respect that she has been able to do as well as she is given the pain of the sitch.

That said, I have lost a lot of respect for her. You can't have respect for behavior that does not deserve it. You can remember that there are still some things that if you see them, you can respect, but d*mn it is sometimes tough. It remains to be seen whether she can right her ship. I'm sure if she can and she makes a real effort to work on the M, I will regain a lot of that lost respect, as I have gone through my bad times and those don't define me any more than her bad times define her. And did I mention, that it was really tough at times?

[asitis]

So I've been spending a lot of time giving advice to everyone else, I figured I should let you all return the favor.

One of the most frustrating things I wrestle with is that my W says (I know don't trust what they say, but in this case there is at least a big kernel of truth to it when I look at my sitch as objectively as I can) that she doesn't feel she can trust me not to behave the old ways that were painful to her. We are both in agreement that I acted in ways that were painful to her, so this is not in debate (how much and lack of acknowledgement of my good behavior we are in disagreement over).

We are separated. We see each other for brief snippets around child care and transitions of the kids between us. I have not acted in any of the ways she has worried about for a good while. Yet, as long as we only have this minimal contact, how the H*ll can she possibly think that trust can develop?

Trust is something that comes out of working together on the M. Even working on it, trust may not develop, but it damn sure isn't going to develop without agreeing to work on it.

The same thing comes up about emotional bonds being too weak now. Well, sure if you are unwilling to invest in the R, then emotional bonds will continue to weaken and will not improve.

She keeps making the thing that is the result of working on the R a precondition for working on the R. She is in IC, so if she is raising this, any IC worth anything will point out that it doesn't happen the way she thinks. I don't know if she is ignoring her IC, if her IC has some well-intentioned, but strange notions about this stuff, or if she is just not bringing it up in her sessions. Regardless, it is very, very frustrating.

I've drunk lots of STFU smoothies over this. We haven't discussed this stuff for a while, but sometimes it just boils up and triggers me again and I have to vent.

I know that there is nothing I can say that will make her see the light. I know that I have to just grin and bear the frustration. Still, she knows I have some expertise in this area, so I get especially worried that my silence is read as a confirmation of her backward view on this. I know, I know. My fear. No helping it. She needs to deal with this sh*t on her own & my sticking my nose in it will only make things worse, this is why therapists (I'm not one yet) don't diagnose or treat those they are intimate with, etc., etc. Still drives my a bit nutty at times.

Thanks for listening.

Hey: 100th post!