as_it_is - my adventure continues

[Cristy]

Asitis,

I can provide some suggestions regarding payment for the coaching & how it appears on a credit card statement. Your DB Coach can also help you navigate the conversation with your wife regarding coaching.

DB Coaching would be a great compliment to the work you are doing with the MC.

Please call me at 303-444-7004 to discuss.

Regards,
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[asitis]

A good day (I think, but I expect short term goofiness from W):

Warning, Long post

Good meeting on finances and clean up issues. I proposed that we not focus on who was responsible for what or lay blame. These are our problems, and the dynamic of blaming and nagging triggers self-defense, then resentment by both that we aren't being heard and emotional distance. It even could lead to unconscious reactions that exasperate the problem. If we focus on concrete solutions with manageable short-term goals after clarifying priorities, then track how we are doing and report back monthly to see how we are doing. Again, no blaming if someone doesn't hit all their goals, just looking at was this a one-off or identify if a goal is unreasonable or a solution that would allow the goal to be reached next time.

She agreed, and we kept it to this. We were sitting side-by-side looking over the finances, identifying what information we still needed to gather, and then talked about concrete solutions. We decided that we needed to set a monthly personal discretionary spending goal that is equal for both of us, that we then track that spending, keeping a running total, and stopping when we hit our monthly goal. If we know something is coming up in the month we need to either, cut back in another area or negotiate ahead of time.

I suggested that we use a broad category and decide what goes into it, so that we allow each person to spend within that limit on what they want rather than getting on each other about “you spent what on clothes?” or books (one of my addictions) or socializing? She really liked and agreed with the approach, the flexibility, the individual autonomy, the getting a better handle on what we were actually spending on these often non-essentials (especially in that most could be deferred). It was very positive.

We talked about what to do with an upcoming lump-sum payment for extra work W is doing this summer, what to do with reimbursement from our dependent and medical expense accounts, and using some of my upcoming student loans to shift some of the higher paying loans around to lower interest and have more of payment go to paying down debts. We easily agreed on all of those things. We further agreed on how to prioritize an upcoming gift from my mother to the boys (she is helping my niece on education expenses, and is giving the same amount to our boys with similar intent). While our priorities were slightly different on this one, we easily came to a compromise we were both happy with.

We then turned to cleaning some of the areas of the house and garage that have been nagging issues, especially with my wife. We identified priorities and the low-hanging fruit, set time working per month goals for each of us, and then what short term goals we wanted to get done this month, and secondary goals for next month assuming we hit the first. The reason for the latter was that there were things my wife wants to make a priority, but it made sense to hit some of the lower-hanging fruit first, but she wanted agreement that these other things were next on the list. Again, we worked creatively and well together.

Altogether a very pleasant experience given that these have been points of contention for a long time and that we both have frustrations about them. I gave lots of eye contact, made the occasional complement when she had a good idea, listened and mirrored her concerns back to her so that she was sure she was being listened to. Kept it focused on business, with no R talk other than the beginning acknowledgement that the dynamics of nag/blame, defend, resent are something all couple do, that it hurt us as a couple and individually in the past and that we wanted to not repeat that past dysfunctional dynamic.

We got off a bit on things we want to do to the house, always clearly mentioned in terms of selling it some time next year as we proceed to separate out our finances and lives. I bit my tongue about how much nicer these things we both brought up would make our house if we decided to reconcile. It will make it more pleasant and working together to deal with some of those mutual nagging dissatisfaction with the house (not each other in this case) would build teamwork and may suggest a more pleasing setting to want to imagine living in together, rather than someplace we wanted to sell and move on from. Very tempting, as I can see how these may work positively for us (no guarantee obviously), but I was proud of my will power to resist bringing this up and just going along with her notion of divorce being where she wants to end up and where we are headed.

I haven't wanted to hold, touch, or kiss her in a while, but I found myself wanting to this afternoon as the meeting wore on (& no I didn't come close to acting on it, and I'm sure it'll wear off soon). I made sure to say I had to stop (initiated disconnect), as there were things I needed to get to, and we agreed to a meeting in about a month to discuss these matters and report back. We set some tasks to take care of in the meantime (going over each of our last two months spending to see where things have been going in most recently, especially now that the separation is 3 months old). We'll e-mail each other our information.

And before anyone asks, I have full online access to all her accounts except one credit card (all our credit cards are in individual names, and we have two joint bank accounts that are basically a his and a hers account, but no ATM or check access to the other's account) and one very, very small pension account that was her employers contribution during 8 weeks of paid maternity leave (for whatever reason that contributed to that instead of her regular 403(b) plan). And, there are no signs of her moving money or an affair. She is very open, as I have always been the one to take care of things like the taxes and managing employment benefits, which means I needed access to such information easily. I have offered to give her the same informational access to all my accounts if she wants, as I am not the type to hide assets, and would rather take the risk of being screwed over than be overly protective (which is also her view, although I can keep tabs to make sure that she is behaving this way). She thanked my, said she knew I wouldn't do such things and didn't need the access.

I wasn't sure what to expect from today's meeting, but I think it went very well. It is the one area of our relationship that we can work on, and that we are working on it in a positive way that builds trust, allows listening and being heard, and shows that we can change unhealthy past dynamics, is very promising in the long run. It wasn't one of my baby step goals, as this was something that our MC suggested as something we should and could work on to reduce tension, and move forward on things that needed to be addressed regardless of whether the marriage was rebuilt or we went our own ways. I was nervous that I made a mistake agreeing to it, but it made sense to me at the time, and I'm glad I did.

[Matt777]

Hello asitis -
I read through your posts tonight. Im sorry that youre in this position.

I noticed you posted this on another thread:

as I've detached and she can no longer blame her unhappiness on me and our M, I'm expecting and steeling myself for her to start looking for something to fill the hole in her soul that is causing all her pain and unhappiness, and that this will likely be an A.

Im having a little trouble understanding this. Detaching does not mean that you go cold on your W or you abandon her. It means that you disentangle your emotional well-being from her. You find ways to make yourself happy that dont require HER. Your emotional state does not depend on HER emotional state.

Im not seeing the connection of you not having your happiness rely on her CAUSING her to start an affair. By following the 37 guidelines and by detaching, you are changing the pursuer/distancer dynamic. I dont see how that will CAUSE her to go wayward on you if she isnt there now.

Just my $0.02

[asitis]

Hello asitis -
I read through your posts tonight. Im sorry that youre in this position.

I noticed you posted this on another thread:

as I've detached and she can no longer blame her unhappiness on me and our M, I'm expecting and steeling myself for her to start looking for something to fill the hole in her soul that is causing all her pain and unhappiness, and that this will likely be an A.

Im having a little trouble understanding this. Detaching does not mean that you go cold on your W or you abandon her. It means that you disentangle your emotional well-being from her. You find ways to make yourself happy that dont require HER. Your emotional state does not depend on HER emotional state.

Im not seeing the connection of you not having your happiness rely on her CAUSING her to start an affair. By following the 37 guidelines and by detaching, you are changing the pursuer/distancer dynamic. I dont see how that will CAUSE her to go wayward on you if she isnt there now.

Just my $0.02

I've not gone cold, but she can no longer blame me for all her unhappiness as I'm not providing the triggers that keep her focused on me as the big problem. As she then has to focus on other sources of unhappiness, I'm prepared that she will, continue the MLC trend to see things external to her as the cause of problems and the source of solutions. I hope that the IC will keep her wary of reaching for pursuing a relationship, as she is in no way capable of a healthy relationship, but I am prepared that as she desperately grasps straws rather than face the internal struggle that is the cause of much of her pain and unhappiness, that an A will be one of those straws. I hope not, but I am steeling myself for this, even though it doesn't dissuade me in the least from pursuing the current course of detaching and GAL.

So, I agree with you that it is not inevitable, and no reason to alter course, but I am preparing myself for the possibility that this is going to happen and that I have to be prepared to weather the storm and stick to my guns regardless. Either that or punt now. I choose to stick to my guns while facing the real possibility.

So far no signs of A, but we are both vulnerable to EA, and that is a slippery slope. It has been just over a year since we were intimate, and that is a long time. In MLC, pleasure and happiness get confused. So, maybe I'm just talking to myself to psych my self up to the get through the tough times I hope will never come.

[asitis]

So tomorrow I leave with my two sons on vacation. It will be two weeks of virtually no contact, other than letting W know we arrived safely. I'm looking forward to it, although this will be the longest the boys have been away from their mom, and I know that will lead to some difficulties with them. I also will have them in the car for two days each way. Stocked up on surprises to help the time pass and make it an adventure, but two days in a car with two young kids is not something anyone looks forward to.

W & I will be seeing each other more today, so I have to get through that. It will be stressful on top of that with lots of chores to get done, packing, etc. I also tend toward stress in anticipation of travelling - you know the kind of worrying about whether I'm forgetting something, slight disorientation that comes from tearing up normality, etc.

Keeping focus on DBing will be something I have to keep reminding myself of during contact time. Still, after all the fun of the last year, this should be a piece of cake.

[mahhhty]

Good for you! 6 & 3 and gone for 2 weeks. Good luck asitis!!! And have fun!

[asitis]

Thanks. For a week of that, we'll be with my brother & niece and her friends (all 11-12 year-olds) at a family camp, so the boys will go off with their age groups every morning for 3 hours of fun and I'll have that time to do pottery, go for a run, read, relax. Then afternoons and evenings there are lots of activities to do together. It is a great time for all. Well worth 2 days in a car each way!

[asitis]

Had an accident this morning, and now get the fun of taking the car in for an estimate and figuring out how to get on the vacation. More stress, and more need to interact with the W in the next couple days, as I'll need to swap cars and coordinate with her to have her take care of the damaged car while I'm gone. I really, really didn't need this.

W was comforting and reassuring on the phone, but we'll see. It does really hit home how much better it is when things like this come up to have a supportive partner who can help soothe jangled nerves. Makes it tougher to keep detached when you really, really could use your W, but the reality is that she's not my W right now and I have to just deal with it.

[asitis]

OK, so car is in to get the rear window replaced so that we can take off for vacation, albeit a day late.

Sat down on the bed to call the collision shop and while I was on hold lying in front of me was a short letter to W from MiL about me being passive aggressive as a means to lash out at my W in response to her wanting a D. I was surprised and a bit irritated both that it was left out in the open and that I would be accused of this. So, when W came over, I said she left the letter out and that I wanted to make sure she didn't want to tell me something. She said she had been expressing some worries about some issues we need to take care of in order to show the house next spring, but that this was her mom's typical paranoia and that it drives her crazy that her mom thinks the worst of us.

She said she still wants a D. I was probably a bit stupid, but as I haven't gotten a straight answer on why she is sure enough that she doesn't see any hope in trying to give the M a chance at some point. She said it was that she doesn't trust that I won't criticize her or belittle her (I did these things in the past, but not recently). She said since the S she feels relief that she is not walking around tense that I will, and that I didn't make her feel attractive or loved. This last, is of course bizarre, because I had been on a campaign from April '14 to be demonstrative and tell her how much I loved, appreciated, and was attracted to her. This caused her to run the other way, but now it is that she I didn't do these things to make her feel good about herself.

She said the trust is too broken to want to try. She says that she sees 'some' change, but she can't live feeling like it is only a matter of time before I undermine her sense of self worth. I told her that I wasn't feeling too much trust since she is walking away from the marriage without really trying, and that trust would have to be rebuilt on both sides and that I didn't think she was ready and I knew I needed time before I was ready to try. I also said that trust can be rebuilt. It won't be easy, but neither will be divorce, so while it has to be her decision it was workable and possible in time.

OK, that was probably a mistake, but at least I have a better sense of what she says she is feeling and why she is unwilling to even try, which I didn't before. I know not to trust what they say, but I think she was expressing why she was hopeless. She also said she was very unhappy because of how crappy it is to have our M fall apart and not feel like it is salvageable.

Not sure what I think of what she actually said. I do not that I broke some rules, and that I have to (1) not be too hard on myself; (2) do better in the future; and (3) back the f off and return focus to myself and the kids.

I'd appreciate any insights, particularly from those who have heard the broken trust argument and rebuilt trust or who had felt trust was too far broken and who started to trust. I haven't been what she fears for months and months now, but obviously it hasn't made much difference from her perspective. Frustrating.

[asitis]

Scheduled my first coaching session for tomorrow morning. After today, I definitely felt I needed the extra help.

Still would love to hear any insights on this afternoons discussion & rule breaking in the previous post.