My wife announced a year ago April that she realized that the stories she had been telling herself about our marriage were false and that she was unhappy, felt like I dominated her, belittled her, showed little appreciation for all she did, etc. My first reaction was self-defensive, but I listened and took things to heart.
We met in grad school 18 years ago in class. We are scarily matched in our interests and our values (intellectual, political, moral, childrearing). I had scars from a very bad failed relationship several years ago where I was walked away from with no explanation. She was just out of a failed engagement. I had my armor up from the beginning, but while I didn't really admit it at first, I loved her from the start.
Skip ahead, we've weathered some tough times. W was a semester ahead of me and got a job offer. Rather than be an academic couple (living in different cities), I put my marriage ahead of my career to be together. Tenure was very hard on her, and she stopped wanting to talk about our intellectual interests because it was too stressful for her. She also withdrew in other ways. I wasn't in touch with my feelings but recognize in hindsight that while I understood her need, I felt a big loss and it hurt.
We had our first child, and as hopes for my career fell apart (something that had a bigger impact on me than I recognized), I chose to be a stay-at-home dad for 2 years (we shared the desire to have one of us home & she had to better income. Things seemed better for a while, but we also put our son ahead of everything and neglected our relationship. I went back to work when W was pregnant with second child so she could take time off after birth. Then I went back to stay-at-home dad duties. My heart wasn't into it this time and I had difficulties feeling the love for my 2nd son that I did for my first. Recognize in hindsight that I was feeling abandoned & saw 2nd as a threat of increasing distance from my wife.
During this time my irritability, resentment, and withdrawal grew, and I tended to belittle my wife, I am ashamed to say. Instead of facing my issues, I reached for compensatory behaviors (selfishly being less helpful around the house, withdrawn & snappy if that was interrupted, and focused too much on sex). Then when my second S was 8 months old, I was diagnosed with my second cancer. That was a real nightmare, with all the uncertainty, a nasty 4 months of chemo that left me sick, listless, and dependent. My wife was caring for the three of us while working.
After chemo, we had excellent test results, and while it will almost certainly come back, it should remain highly treatable every time. In the interim, of all this we had lost my father & brother's wife to cancer, and both our mothers developed and were treated for breast cancer.
I was starting to come out of my depression, got into therapy again after too long a break, and there was a general sense of relief. This was when she realized that she wasn't happy, hadn't been for a long time, and that she saw many of our dynamics as dysfunctional and hurtful to her. I got the I love you, but I'm not in love with you speech.
I owned up to my problems and started to work like hell on myself. She got into therapy (which she continues). Every improvement in my led to increasing distance and stronger boundaries from her. I was frustrated and confused. I did the pleading, reasoning, doing much more than my fair share of the family & household duties (I owed her anyway--although the division hadn't been as inequitable as she was now seeing it) to give her more time for herself, was demonstrative, etc.
The shock of her telling me all this really broke down the barriers I had built around my emotions. I was able to feel, cry, empathize in a way, I don't think I ever have. While that was scary, I was determined to get comfortable with feeling deeply and never raise my walls again.
We got into couples therapy, although that was infrequent due to various circumstances (therapist taking a 1 month vacation, illness). I continued to work on myself and engage in a campaign of winner her heart and proving what a good husband I could be. This kept leading to more rejection on her part and confusion and frustration on my part.
So, I confronted her, and because I knew that one of her problems was that she had trouble asking for what she wanted, I really wanted her to own up to what she wanted. She hinted around, but didn't come out and say it, so I offered a separation. She said that yes, that is really what she had wanted (that was 11/14). Couples therapy then shifted almost entirely into separation logistics.
We got an apartment together, and while the kids stay in our house, we rotate between house and apartment. This was to maintain as much stability for the kids as possible, and because I didn't want to give up being in the house. Separation started Feb. 2015. She also wanted a month off couples therapy to see how things went.
At first things seemed better. Both of us were less stressed. Both enjoyed some time off. I still maintained my working on myself and the campaign to prove myself wonderful husband. The intent was to give some space, see how we felt, and then come back to therapy and work on the marriage.
Things continued to deteriorate, and even the smallest thing started to set her off. She announced in mid-March that she was finally "feeling" her anger and that she could not be there for me or have me try to be close to her right now. OK, I thought she said she was feeling her anger the summer before, but I backed off (not as far as I needed, but a lot). Then after a fight, we set up a time to meet in mid April. This is when she dropped the "I regret that I haven't asked a while ago for a divorce, but that is what I want." She was afraid I'd explode (like her father) or fall apart. I did neither, which surprised her. I thanked her for finally being honest with me, as I had know that she was holding back and it was causing me a great deal of anxiety. I also said that I wished I had known this as soon as she did, because it would have caused me to see the project we had seemed to be on (figuring out how to work on our relationship) to be inappropriate and had led on me taking actions that were based on bad information from her and had caused unnecessary stress and pain for both of us. We scheduled a couple sessions with our couples therapist.
I had already picked up DB, but had only read part. A therapist colleague of mine (believe it or not, despite having a Ph.D., I am going back to get a masters in mental health counseling starting this fall - very excited btw - and this colleague will now be one of my professors) recommended the "Divorce is Not the Answer" chapter of DB. This lead me to read DB and apply some of the ideas. I had backed off already, but over the course of the next month, really have stopped trying to talk to my w, contact her only when truly necessary, and focus on myself, my life (which I had already been doing a lot, but really focusing on the enjoyment I was getting out of all that I was doing), and my kids.
I went through the anger and resentment at being mislead by her, and really do see that she is struggling. She is a good person, and it took her a lot of thought and struggle to get to her decision. Still, I recognize increasingly that she is also going through a MLC (I'll talk about that in another thread, as this one is already too long), and that she was incapable of being in a healthy relationship right now. I've shifted some of the burden of family/household responsibilities back onto her, so that things are more equitable. I've been taking pottery classes, which I really enjoy. Exercising regularly. We both continue individual therapy, although will only continue couples therapy on an as needed basis, as it is clear that working on the relationship right now is counterproductive. We are both taking the kids on separate summer vacations. I am a Buddhist, and over the past year have really deepened my practice, which has helped me tremendously, both in terms of personal growth, assisting therapy, and giving me a community. I became active in my local Unitarian Universalist Church (for those confused, lots of Buddhists are active in UUs), which has also expanded my support network.
Overall, I am very happy with where my life is headed, other than the marriage, which I still want to save. I love my wife more fully now than I think I ever have, as I see her more clearly warts and all, not some idealized image. We are committed to mediation, our families are not trying to drive a wedge between us (both want us to reconcile & there is mutual love and respect between us and our inlaws). I know that trust is a problem, but despite her being afraid to admit what she wanted and sending me mixed messages, I still trust that she is committed to maintaining a healthy relationship with minimal animosity for the kids sake and for our sakes. If that turns out to be unfounded, I am prepared to pay the price for my trust. It is who I am. And while I know that someone going through an MLC is not fully trustworthy, I am committed to act as if she will live up to her deepest values. Yes, those deepest values would never allow her to break her marriage vows, but she is decided she wants a divorce. But, I will not start treating her as untrustworthy - I'll be realistic but still hold to my values through all this.
I know that she is not seeing anyone or in contact with anyone that might turn into an affair - yes, I did snoop, and it is very easy with her. She is already beginning to initiate the contacts, and I've remained warm, happy, jovial (not an act either), but arranged to minimize contact. She has started making excuses to contact me and to stop over because she needed something (and saying when she had the kids, that she doesn't mind if the kids see me when I tell her when I'll be out so she can stop over then).
I have called off all pursuit, told her that I recognized that she needs space and to not work on our relationship and that I was fine with this, apologized for not recognizing this fully earlier (I mentioned that the mixed messages she sent didn't help), told her that she needed to be fully honest with me and that nothing she did or said would cause me to stop loving her or being there for her if she was in need (having gone through the cancer, we both know that we would be there for the other at such times and have talked about it). I know that at least until the kids are out of the house, we can't run away, that we still have the building blocks for a healthy loving marriage, that she is struggling right now and while I can't fix her I can't walk away either, and that she is still the person I want to spend the rest of my life with. So, patience is not a problem.
That's enough for now. And, yes I have DR, and have started reading it and found it to be helpful despite reading DB. I've also cruised around the forum for the last week or so and gain some insights, particularly on MLC for women. Cheers.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
One of the things I've felt most powerless about is what AND refers to as well-meaning family, friends, and therapist. In a sense, my W is living in a world of her stories, and anything I would do to try to suggest that while there may be some truth to them, the stories she is telling herself and th o Dr giving her advice are not the full truth, and therefore the advice is problematic. It is very hard at times not to burst out in frustration. I write letters that I know I'll never end, but I was wondering if others had had this problem and how they dealt with it.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
Your story has parallels to my experience. I feel that I can relate to you and your situation. Your W will rewrite your history for an extended period of time. Be prepared for that, and do the best you can at being the best you.
There is an entire section in DB or DR about discussing situations with friends or family. The advice or support you get from friends and family will never be objective. It is always basis based their support of the individual and their support for themselves (they don't want to deal with people who are unhappy, so often it is the instantaneous advice on how to get happy fastest no matter what).
As for letters, I did that multiple times and you can see them in my threads. It helps, but sometimes it clouded my judgement and made we really want to send them. I struggle with complete self-control in these areas at times.
Good luck Dave. I'll keep checking in.
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Another weird feeling. Checking this forum, writing on it, and reading what others say feels like I'm focusing more on my marriage and W, rather than detaching. I've been able to detach a great deal lately. There are a couple difficulties with detaching. First, we have two young boys, and I am at least an equal caregiver time-wise.
Second, because we want a stable environment for the kids during the separation, we have kept them in our house and rented an apartment. We rotate from apartment to house, while the kids stay put. This requires some coordination, as we are maintaining two abodes together. One of our dynamics is that I was the coordinator, managing the trade off and the reminding of chores that needed to be done. We had a fairly gender-traditional division of labor (her the cleaning, me the maintenance). I helped with the former when asked mostly. After she let me know she was unhappy, I stepped up and took on much more of the cleaning and even trained myself to look around as I moved through the house to see what needed to be cleaned or straightened and either did it or negotiated. I still did almost all of the maintenance on the house, cars, etc.
When she asked for a D, one of the things I made clear was that I had been carrying too much of the load and needed her to step up and take on some of my tasks. She needs to learn how to manage this stuff anyway if she is going to split, and is in agreement with me on this.
So, at first it was me reminding her of what needed to be done, so still too much contact. The last few weeks, some of the tasks have become obvious to her, and I've just let go of those and let her do more of the coordinating (read contacting me). So far, she's doing well, and I can relax and resist checking and reminding, which is a great relief since it allows greater detachment.
All that said, I've had the troubled thought that reading DR, coming to this forum, posting, are all a dodge from detaching. If anything, I feel more focused on the R, I just am not contacting her and being more distant and focused on my GAL activities. Given the circumstances, I'm fairly happy with life right now, recognize that pursuit would only bring difficulties and that she is not able to be a healthy person in my life right now, etc. Still, I'm wondering if others have been troubled by focusing on the R via this forum and reading/thinking about DBing when they are trying to detatch?
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
Yes, I've already had the seeing our marriage through a very distorted lens (she had been seeing it previously as through too rosy a lens, so now she thinks her at least as distorted view in the other direction is the Truth). Having seen my MiL & FiL recently, I am reassured that either they aren't buying it or she is not demonizing me. Having stopped the pursuit, I'm hoping that it won't go that way. I know that likely now she will realize that she is still unhappy, and as she has as full a separation as she can from me with our 2 kids (we'll she could walk away from that too - don't think so, but in MLC you really do never know), that she starts really grasping at straws to fill the happiness void. I'm prepared for some really bad behavior that hurts a lot.
I've found in writing the letters, combined with my meditation, where I sit with my feelings and how they express in my body, allows me to process through resentment, anger, hurt, etc. I then am more clearly able to see her pain and suffering, understand that this isn't really her fault in a lot of ways (knowing her childhood, feelings of unworthiness, and lack of love for herself that grew out of it, MLC was sort of inevitable). I can get back to focusing on myself and the boys and not reacting.
Like you, I struggled with wanting to send the letters at first. One thing I did was make a rule that I would at least discuss the letter with my therapist at our next session before deciding. Usually by then, the urge to send the letter is totally gone. If not, it is at least nowhere near strong enough to overcome reason and the lessons of DBing.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
Another weird feeling. Checking this forum, writing on it, and reading what others say feels like I'm focusing more on my marriage and W, rather than detaching. I've been able to detach a great deal lately.
The first thing posted to you in my post in BOLD is DETACH so dont take your eye off the ball, IMHO.
Detaching is not simple and works in layers, just when you think you are detached you find out you are not.
Thanks Cadet. I'm trying not to take my eye off the ball. It just sometimes seems a bit obsessive to focus on the R, even if indirectly through posting. I'll get the hang of it I'm sure.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
I continued to work on myself and engage in a campaign of winner her heart and proving what a good husband I could be. This kept leading to more rejection on her part and confusion and frustration on my part.
If only the LBS could realize sooner, what you have learned the hard way.
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told her that she needed to be fully honest with me and that nothing she did or said would cause me to stop loving her or being there for her if she was in need (having gone through the cancer, we both know that we would be there for the other at such times and have talked about it).
I understand where you are coming from, and if it were a case of having cancer or something......like you said, you both "know" you would be there for the other one. Where I have a different opinion, is telling her she can not do anything to stop you loving her. In a healthy MR, it is fine to give that type of verbal support or emotional assurance, however, this is a woman who wants to D you. She has to,d you she's not in love with you. She has told you she doesn't even want your closeness. That changes the entire ball game. It has been my experience that the S left behind is making a mistake to pledge undying love at this point. Have you ever had a woman who you didn't want around you proclaiming undying love regardless of what you did? It is not a turn-on.
You have no idea how ugly she may treat you or the children in the near future. Yes, now you can't see yourself never loving her, regardless of what she does, but to tell a WW/WAW those words, is not necessarily a good thing. It sounds like sweet parting words to end a MR, doesn't it? Heck, she may have even squeezed out a few tears, IDK. I only know it doesn't work that way in the cases I've read.
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I know that at least until the kids are out of the house, we can't run away, that we still have the building blocks for a healthy loving marriage, that she is struggling right now and while I can't fix her I can't walk away either, and that she is still the person I want to spend the rest of my life with. So, patience is not a problem.
You will always be connected by the kids, and it's good to hold hope for a healthy M. However, she is wanting to leave the M! Not you, b/c you see it running away from the problems, but she sees you as the problem. And the thought of not being able to walk away from her is what will keep you stuck in this stitch. If she is wayward, she is NOT the same person she was on her wedding day. You may feel you still want to be M to her, but it still will keep you stuck and clinging to her. I'm just saying not to be telling her how you feel. Most LBH'S talk way too much about feelings to his WAW.
She could be in MLC, I don't know. I am just trying to tell you that DBing is counterintuitive and I hope you will be flexible enough in your thinking to accept the idea of a different approach.
We never doubt the love of the LBS who comes here to bust a divorce. We don't worry they want to save the M. It is the one who wants a D that has the problem with it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
