hold on! - 10

[Vanilla]

Ahhhh

I now understand

V

[u-turn]

Thanks Jelly, V, Cadet. Sure is great to get support here.

Jelly - I sure hope you get better soon. Thanks for looking in - I look forward to"talking" with you again.

V & Cadet - Have to be honest, I had to look up much of what you are talking about. You only know what you know - and this is nothing that I know about. I know how lot's of things work but the brain is definitely not one of them. I research things that I don't understand.

Fins = money - right?
autonomy = acting separately from others (I don't really understand what this has to do with shame)
Initiative = starting independently (I don't really understand what this has to do with guilt)


I understand the description of guilt and understand a little about where that comes from. I do not understand where my shame would come from - this is what happened when I spoke of this with my IC. I was describing my perception of what other people may think of my potential divorce without knowing the story. I feel like others may just feel that "yep, that u-turn is a hell of a guy, but that's not enough to keep W happy, so she bolted" Other people's perception is just a fear of mine.

Throughout this, I have had a hard time not comparing myself to OM. Most of the time I feel like this is the lowest type of person. but other times, I feel like - this guy knows how to get what he wants and W just wants this type of lowlife.

I still protect my W and that is something that will be hard for me to stop. I have been talking to some people about our situation, but have not talked too much about why.

Thanks for the resources - I have seen these, but I am going to watch again - I remember them to be very inspiring (Like V).

----

I did some GAL this weekend. I went to my brother's annual cook-out with my kids (I asked my W not to go - this is a first for me - I just wanted to go and have fun). I feel a little guilty for doing this, but she angrily obliged. I had a good time. She was home when I got back home. Sleeping.

I talked to my brother a little - he was asking a lot of questions about W. Why she didn't come, why she hasn't returned his calls. I let him know there is trouble in paradise. He offered his support - I think I will be talking to him again soon. He recently re-fought his D with a new lawyer and things are much more balanced for him.

Father's day - I told W that I was making a big dinner for when S17 got off work. W offered to leave for the day so I could be alone with the kids. I told her she could stay if she wanted to. Her and D15 left for the day (kind of crappy that the kids were all gone), but they were home for dinner. FIL & MIL came over too. It was good, I guess. I felt ok that we were all there for this dinner but not pretending like everything is happy family. I still believe that the in-laws are clueless.

W is still angry at every move I make (without telling her). She found out that I had lunch with S21 and now is pissed about that - or the fact that I didn't tell her (but we don't really talk about anything and I didn't think it was necessary for her to know).

I feel like I need to push forward with my plans - don't want to loose momentum.

No need to reveal my hand - though is it decent of me to tell her when I am proceeding - or just let it happen to her?

[bravo61]

As long as you are not trying to dump it on her to hurt her or "wake" her up, I don't see the point. This is YOUR decision for your life. Good luck!

[Vanilla]

[quote=u-turn]

V & Cadet - Have to be honest, I had to look up much of what you are talking about. You only know what you know - and this is nothing that I know about. I know how lot's of things work but the brain is definitely not one of them. I research things that I don't understand.

Fins = money - right? Financial situation more than mere money

autonomy = acting separately from others (I don't really understand what this has to do with shame) Shame is that which we hide from others, when we are independent of others can be autonomous, we lose the shame. We are doing what is authentic for ourselves. Personally I am more a Brene Brown theorist, we are human and showing our vulnerability reduces the shame.

Initiative = starting independently (I don't really understand what this has to do with guilt)Again a theory, but if guilt motivates us to action it diminishes. I prefer twelve step atonement. But often we feel guilty about things we cannot be responsible for and my model is incomplete.


I understand the description of guilt and understand a little about where that comes from. I do not understand where my shame would come from - this is what happened when I spoke of this with my IC.

My understanding is that shame will arise because at your core your situation is something which you wish to keep private. Usually it's a fear of being judged. It isn't because you perceive you were responsible but it's something you hold yourself accountable for. In the same way that if a thief takes your car and crashes into another and runs away, you are not responsible for the action but may feel accountable for the fact it was unlocked or the alarm wasn't on. If that makes sense. In general we keep the things we are ashamed of hidden from view because we believe others judge us. When we disclose make ourselves vulnerable then we get support and empathy from others.

When I discovered my STBXH was a compulsive gambler I was ashamed, yes I am not the gambler here so I am not responsible for his gambling and I have no guilt for that as it wasn't my action. But I felt accountable because by being blind I felt I enabled, I was ashamed for H gambling and the position it left us. Once I made myself vulnerable by disclosing, I faced my fear and could take action and the shame went. Shame is natural and being secret about things is the usual response. The world does not need to know, just those who are important to you .

I was describing my perception of what other people may think of my potential divorce without knowing the story. I feel like others may just feel that "yep, that u-turn is a hell of a guy, but that's not enough to keep W happy, so she bolted" Other people's perception is just a fear of mine.
Sweet heart that's mind reading, you can't control another's thoughts and besides people only give it a moments thought then move back to their concerns about themselves. They could think anything from "that's what happened to my BIL", "I could give that guy a hug" "what a [censored] thing" to "what? who is that".

Throughout this, I have had a hard time not comparing myself to OM. Most of the time I feel like this is the lowest type of person. but other times, I feel like - this guy knows how to get what he wants and W just wants this type of lowlife.

No pond scum, scuzzy, scrot bag, nasty piece and oh yes, low morals scruples and behaviour.

I still protect my W and that is something that will be hard for me to stop. I have been talking to some people about our situation, but have not talked too much about why.

Stop, you don't need to say anything you don't need to. But no lies, when someone says "sorry to here you and W are separate" then you can say "yes, it's sad and I am working on myself". This is the truth but doesn't protect W.

Thanks for the resources - I have seen these, but I am going to watch again - I remember them to be very inspiring (Like V).
That will help

It is rude of me to enter into philosophical discussions on your thread and I apologise. My understanding is above and is how I understand it.

Apologies again

V

[u-turn]

Bravo - thanks
I have no interest in hurting her and don't believe a forewarning will "wake" her up either. I feel it will fuel her fire more though - and that could be a negative for me and possibly the kids.

I don't even know if she will be surprised by it.

Thanks again

[u-turn]

V - apologies - really?

First, you are always welcome and I ALWAYS value what you write - you help me every day. Thank you for that.

Second, like I said, I only know what I know, and the things you are writing about are things that I didn't even know I didn't know. and I do love to learn and am in awe by this wisdom that you show. I can talk about how these things relate to me, but to actually add to what you have written - not so much. It does open my eyes to what may be happening inside my head though.

You do clear this up for me a little. I have often taken on feeling accountable for W's actions (and in my life, other people's actions too). I recognize this.

-------

I also recognize this one. Maybe this is what is described here as dropping the rope, but I have let go (and in a way I fear that I have gone too far). I am doing things only for myself and kids. I now sometimes (last night) actually pity and feel sorry for W. I have now learned to be self-sufficient, the kids know that they can rely on me (and only me if push came to shove). I do everything for myself and the kids, and at times W just sits and mopes. Have I pulled back too far? I feel good, but there's that guilt thing again. What's this about? the real question - have I pulled the kids away from her? Early in this situation, W accused me of trying to do this.

[CaliGuy]

Throughout this, I have had a hard time not comparing myself to OM. Most of the time I feel like this is the lowest type of person. but other times, I feel like - this guy knows how to get what he wants and W just wants this type of lowlife.

I still protect my W and that is something that will be hard for me to stop. I have been talking to some people about our situation, but have not talked too much about why.

I could have written this ... word for friggin word.

For me I know I am more of a man than OM could ever hope to be .. but yeah there is that seed of .. must be something there for W to have wanted that over me. So it sends us spinning, then I read up on the A's a bit .... the WW 'affairs down' ... in my case my W went after a OM whom she would never been allowed to talk to let alone date ... parents would never approve, he is nothing more than a POS honestly .. getting involved with a married woman, safe, no commitment from him required and once she is divorced well now she wants to believe he would be her next ... soulmate of a husband .. this is not the foundation a good relationship is built on .. lies and deciet

W shared with me as the A is over and we are talking things out that OM never connected emotionally, never filled those needs, they never talked like we do ... I do think the direction you are going will have an impact on your W ... I have always felt this with your sitch but its you who needs to pull that trigger .. one I was never willing to pull ... you have my support .. I know how rough this really is.

[Vanilla]

Let go of the rope (from my archives)

Tug of War with a Monster/let go the rope
Imagine you’re in a tug of war with some huge anxiety (depression etc) monster. You’ve got one end of the rope, and the monster has the other end. In between you, there’s a huge bottomless pit. You’re pulling backward as hard as you can, but the monster keeps on pulling you ever closer to the pit. What’s the best thing to do in that situation?
Pulling harder comes naturally, but the harder you pull, the harder the monster pulls. You’re stuck. What do you need to do?
Dropping the rope means the monster’s still there, but you’re no longer tied up in a struggle with it. Now you can do something more useful.
With another metaphor there are two parties jerking each other towards the pit. The more anxious party ends up being pulled with the others whims towards the pit, letting go the rope stops the randomness.
Being pulled behind a fast moving speedboat and having to follow behind until one lets go. Stops the craziness.
(Harris 2009)

U note that letting go the rope (as opposed to detaching: letting go of the outcome) doesn't make the other party go away, it just stops them jerking you around. They have more respect for you because you are more independent. You take back your own power. I see that as stronger and so will WW!

Sometimes WW go for rotten fruit because it's fermenting. But then so is vinegar.

Hope that helps.

V

[u-turn]

getting involved with a married woman, safe, no commitment from him required and once she is divorced well now she wants to believe he would be her next ... soulmate of a husband .. this is not the foundation a good relationship is built on .. lies and deciet

funny that we can see that, but they didn't/don't

W shared with me as the A is over and we are talking things out that OM never connected emotionally, never filled those needs, they never talked like we do ...

This sounds like great news for you Cali - thumbs up!!!

I do think the direction you are going will have an impact on your W ... I have always felt this with your sitch but its you who needs to pull that trigger .. one I was never willing to pull ... you have my support .. I know how rough this really is.

Thank you, that means a lot to me. It almost feels like actually pulling a trigger. It is really hard, but all will be well.

Thank you for your support as always

[u-turn]

U note that letting go the rope (as opposed to detaching: letting go of the outcome) doesn't make the other party go away, it just stops them jerking you around. They have more respect for you because you are more independent. You take back your own power. I see that as stronger and so will WW!

Sometimes WW go for rotten fruit because it's fermenting. But then so is vinegar.

and the grass is always greener over the septic field.


Thanks V!!!