hold on! - 10

[Vanilla]

u?

V

[u-turn]

Thanks V for sticking with me. I do try to stay away from here from time to time - I have been trying not to obsess over my life so much and staying busy with other things. I have taken on a necessary large house project here too - with future sale in mind.

You can choose not to be the cake and behave as the friendly neighbour. They are not exclusive.

Behaving as if you were the friendly neighbour won't make you not cake either!

In other words if W sees you as potential cake that's good isn't it. Means there is still attraction and the friendly neighbour bit keeps the path home smooth. Behaving as if you were a friendly neighbour doesn't make you one either.

So, if you are going to expect WW to give up OM 100% immediately then that's not going to happen. From what I can read WW have a real tough time with the emotional stuff in piecing.

So for the sake of your kids, if for no other reason like standing, apply Sandi guidelines. Smile. Act as if.

Would you interact with someone who doesn't smile at you, won't go to dinner with the family, and treats you like you don't exist?

That's not to say that you should be cake, 2nd choice or walked all over.

I do get this. I have tried this. Tonight, rather than cooking, I decided to carry in something and waited a while for W to get home. She asked if we should just go out and get something and I agreed. So W, D15 and I went. I don't believe it went very well, we were just their together with D15. No conversation, but no fighting (we really never fight). Just nothing.

Now it's another weekend - I dislike weekends because of the discomfort in my house. More of the same. I try to get away as much as possible.

Plans for next week - I texted S21 and am meeting him for lunch on Monday. I haven't talked to him one on one in a very long time, and I plan on filling him in on the situation.

I told S17 that he can talk to me, ask me questions - even though in the past, the answers from W have been it's none of your business. He seemed relieved by this a little, didn't ask me anything, but seemed happy that he could. I am going to have the same conversation with D15 (I don't think this will go as well - she has not wanted to acknowledge the problems in our house).

I have a meeting with L on Tuesday, IC on Wednesday (she's convinced me to keep going to see her) and my work is going very well - feeling creative again - am enjoying showing my kids what I am working on (and talking enthusiastically enough that I think I am convincing them that I am happy again) - I used to be able to show my projects to W to get her input and critiques.

As far as the lawyer goes, I am looking forward to this, and am a little scared by this too. I want to learn from him, but don't know what his advice will be. Hopefully I will gain confidence in my actions and upcoming actions.

One more note before shutting down - I just don't feel like this situation is going to change. It really is like she is waiting for me to act. Our last round of conversations (which was about 20 minutes long and lasted for about 9 days), I got this: she wishes I would have killed myself, she was sorry for saying that, she still loves OM, she will not leave the house, so she thinks we will have to sell the house (because I want to stay and she wants to stay) - that was 3 weeks ago and nothing since.

By me even playing friendly neighbor, doesn't it just prolong this nothingness? It is already miserable here for me and for her. I really don't know how she can stand it here. I can barely stand it her when she is home. In-house separation stinks - doesn't work.

[Vanilla]

U

I want to address something that I think is very important indeed.

WW saying to you 'I wish you had killed yourself"?

I had the same remark from my H that he would be better off if I were dead. He meant it and did not apologise, tried to pass it off as a joke.

Well this is serious and most assuredly abusive. It negates your entire existance and once said can never be unsaid. Are you seeing an IC at the moment? Other than here is there someone safe you can talk to? This is something needing to disclose to your L.

I am concerned for you, remarks like this are more than cutting and button pushing. In a religious sense no right minded adult says this, a petulant child to a parent when they can't get their way, and we learn at 5 or 6 that this is unacceptable talk.

Please keep posting, if you want to talk this through.

We started a new abuse thread in newcomers if you want to consider a look.

With regard to D15 it's enough to say you are there. And hugs, lots of hugs. Sounds to me as if the children are in good hands with you. WW's damage is telling me that.

U well done on the dinner, baby step to normalise for your kids.

Big hugs and extra ones

V

[u-turn]

Thanks V.
yes - that was hurtful when she said that - it was said in complete anger with her finger poking me in the chest. She tearfully apologized for it two days later. It does not undue it for me - I changed at that point. She has blamed me for this WHOLE situation on something that I said back in January of 2014 (that was really the BD). I accused her meeting a male friend as being a date (that supposedly sent the snowball rolling down the hill). I apologized too many times to count for that and addressed that I didn't know how to deal with jealousy (I had never felt it before and reacted in the wrong way instead of discussing it).

Well - now she wanted to apologize for something she said that is so hurtful. Something that tells me that inside her she does not care if I were here or not. Can't undue that.

I am seeing an IC and she has helped me with my suicidal thoughts and somehow they are gone and I feel good.

Abusive - I don't know, it is not really a pattern, but I don't know enough about it. Things that I remember - she did stab me with a fork once (15 years ago). At the time I felt that I had it coming - it was at the height of my working too much. I see that differently now. (I'm have a feeling she doesn't even remember that)

She has withheld sex during our marriage - I thought that was my problem, but I see that as her control now.

--but now she still goes around acting like all is well during the day without really addressing anything. I am quietly proceeding with what I think my path should be and this is where that anger came from when she said those things to me. It has taken me a long time to figure out what my path should be.

I will continue this later, but thank you so much.
And hugs right back to you!

[u-turn]

Finishing from earlier - Did I ever mention that I don't like weekends and Monday's are just a recovery from the weekend - well that's how it is.

It's the time here together and seeing her that bonks me on the head every weekend. It's her nonchalant attitude and her way of having the kids believe her that makes me feel like an outsider/stranger around here. That may seem like normalizing things for the kids - but it sure seems manipulative to me and it is nothing the kids can count on.

But anyway, I do not think I want to consider my situation as abuse (do I feel abused sometimes? - yes). But I do not want to "take away" from someone that has true dangerous physical/emotional abuse happening to them by saying - me too. I don't know if that makes any sense at all.

Also, I have gone through many ideas of what is wrong with my life and situation: I was a shty husband, lover, father and there is a list of things that I need to improve (not the really the case), W with MLC (I don't know - maybe), WW is just out of control (maybe), now with the abuse topic, I can say this may be the case, but really what is the difference for me?

Is having an A emotional torture and abuse for the LBS even if it is not flaunted? well then yes - we are all abused in some way. Should I have just been stronger about it and ended my marriage a long time ago to end the abuse for myself? maybe/probably.

[Vanilla]

U

Nothing you say takes anything away from another.

Sweet U, your reality and experience is yours to claim. The fact that another has a more vivid sitch makes your own just as true.

There is validity in your own truth and you can own it.

Let WW do as she will, U is becoming.

Peace

V

[u-turn]

Thanks V - you are the best!

----Question, because I probably am not thinking of everything that can go wrong: Why would W have taken the title to one of the cars (both names on it) and our marriage certificate with her, what can she do with this information. I have a feeling she may be on the move or knows that I am, but I don't know what she is doing with these things - any ideas?

I have a meeting with the lawyer today. feeling uneasy about this, but it is only informational right now.

I did have lunch with S21 yesterday, just him and I. I haven't spoken to him one on one since about september/october. I found out about his plans with finishing school and proceeding to military. He is very attached to his GF but says he is not letting that direct his life - I don't see that, but.

I also filled him in on what is happening at home. Mostly the what and not so much about the why. Though I did correct some of the assumptions he had. I think it was eye opening for him. He appreciated me being honest with him. He does not want to be blind-sided by this and I agree with this too. (I found out without guiding his conversation, that he does not want to have any interaction with his mother - he described many things throughout his life that may be considered gas-lighting from his mother (I found that really interesting and heartbreaking)). I feel that I still have my connection with my kids and will not lose that. I told him that I will not make them pick sides and I will not bad mouth their mother - he kind of rolled his eyes and said that there is really no decission to make and I should never be worried about losing S21 and S17. We talked about D15 and he sees that she is being pulled by W with money/shopping/gifts. I let him talk about these things and even without him being around, he really sees how things are.

I went with S17 to open a checking account for him yesterday too. He wanted me to do this with him because he doesn't want his mother's name on the account so she cannot have access to it. He does not trust her with his money. This is all enlightening. The boys trust me as their rock - wow.

[SunnyB]

U-turn, good for you for being there for all your kids. D15 may be pulled by the money/shopping/gifts now, and besides, she shouldn't have choose between you. But you are there and you are the stable one, and that's what they all need. Nice job, dad!

[CaliGuy]

uturn

Looking forward to seeing what happens after the L meeting. Outside looking in I just think this push is needed for you, your W has never had the fear of losing you and reading your progression its hard not to see that. I think in her head this is all going to plan, she gets the A and the OM while still appearing to have that 'happy' family ..... while you are in a torturous enviornment ... its not healthy and I look forward to you taking the next step.

Hang in there ... I'm rooting for you.

[u-turn]

Thank you SunnyB - I hope I am proving to the kids that I am the stable one, the boys seem to feel that way, I don't know about D though. I hope also that I am not mistaken in believing that I am the stable one.

Thanks to you too Cali - I feel like I am at the top of the mountain with a little snowball at my feet and all I all I am doing is getting ready to give it a nudge and destroy the whole town below.

Meeting with L happened. It was a long meeting (3 hours) but 1 of which was at his house - he was a former client of mine and I had not seen his final project completed. I learned a lot from him - I don't know if I should get second opinions or shop around though. I do like the fact that I have a working relationship with him (and he is giving me a "discount" rate too - though I am still shocked by his hourly rate (I should have charged him more )

Being in a no-fault state, the "why" does not matter and we did not really discuss it. He made D, sound very much like a business transaction, which I guess that is all it is. Assets, liabilities, and children. That's it.

I know this sounds trivial, but early in the conversation he stated - well, you are here because you no longer want to be married to this person. I knew this, but that statement, want to be married, really made me think. Do I want to be married to this person, or do I feel that I can no longer make a marriage to this person work, or do I think that the person she now is is not someone I want to be married to. I've thought about all of this before, but this is it - this is the decision to make.

He does not believe mediation is the way to go for a D.

I was surprisingly non-emotional through the whole meeting. I just felt again that this is about dissolving our "corporation" (which by the way I neglected to bring up our business that would need to be changed too).

We talked a lot about my distrust of what she could be up to and how to protect myself and the kids from this. He stated that he could run a credit check to verify things.

I also told him my concerns about W's legal troubles (DUI, court case that I know nothing about, currently driving on a suspended license in a car that has my name on it....) He seemed concerned as well and ran a check of the county court public records and verified that her next court appearance is in Aug., and it seems that she has hidden some other prior reckless driving violation from a couple years ago and several other tickets from me.

As we talked further, the why of the matter seemed to be of more interest to him and he really felt that her actions are not fitting of someone to trust. (not really a pro-marriage stance, but what that's what I expected) (that is his opinion though).

He also said he could give my W's lawyer for her DUI case a call to see if she is representing her for any other cases (if she is working up the D on her end). I told him that I didn't want him to do that. But really I maybe should have allowed it. Ultimately, for my own guilt, I guess I would rather her file than me.

I left with the knowledge and paperwork to fill out for filing.

----

session with IC went well as usual yesterday. We usually discuss what happened during the week but this time after filling her in on the details, we discussed some deeper things. Something that I said caused her to ask me if I felt shame or guilt about this whole mess. I didn't really know what the difference between these two things. As I described my reluctance to tell anyone about my situation, and how people might think this or that that we got D because u-turn is too boring or too quiet or not forceful enough, are feelings of guilt. I don't know what this means for me, but it seems to be something I should address.

She sort of apologized for "not helping me feel better". I told her that is not really why I am here - It does help me dig deeper. She says many of the things that are said here.