Thank you, thank you, thank you, and thank you! Happy father's day to all you fathers out there, and to all the mothers out there thank you for all you do EVERY day.
Good time with family today. I am reading to them and they actually like the book. It is so nice to read to them. It's so cool they are at ages that we can read more than Dick and Jane.
Fogg, thanks for the reply. You know- I've been struggling this week. Maybe it was the 1 year thing, but I've gone through a lot of emotions. I've come up with a couple of theories about this.
1- I think we can only handle so much suffering. That's why we use denial in the beginning and all of that, to regulate how much sheer pain comes at us. But for something like a D, I think the reason it takes years is partly because it's so much we have to spread it out over a long time. That and because it impacts us in so many ways, some that we don't even realize until a year down the road. And also because the permanence of loss not really setting in until the dust settles and things don't go 'back to normal. But the idea of grieving other things leads me to the second difficulty.
2. At some point we're suffering from the D because we have to deal with our own flaws. When I was in the M I wasn't working on myself, I was hoping my spouse would 'accept me the way I was' and I could just stay the same. Now I have to grow, not in an effort to attract her back or to be worthy of love in the future, but simply because if I don't I will cause a lot more suffering for myself. I had and still have (and always will) faulty ways of looking at the world that cause me pain. Now is the time to really sort through those ineffective outlooks and try to find some peace. Oh, I know perfection isn't achievable, but there are milestones I'm looking for like being healthy and happy on my own, etc.
So all in, it was a reminder that I'm not all better both in that there's more pain in the days ahead, and that some of it is from my own outlooks, not from the D.
The good news is that the pain is so much more manageable that even these flair ups are child's play compared to BD. And I have a lot of hope that I'll have good days again in the future. At this point I'm more concerned about all of y'all.
So those new to DB forums, please be strong, breathe deep, relax, get good support, and get ready to do some hard work. There is a way out of the pain, I promise.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Wow, what a tough week. I went to D8's gymnastics tonight. Sat near my other kids which means proximity to STBX.
It's so strange to see. I'm doing great with the kids, and they love me and love spending time with me. They love their mom. Us all together. And STBX could've chosen to remain my wife, and we'd have a family. Instead she has chosen this other path, and I hug my kids and drive home to my apartment, and we negotiate through the fallout of our lives together.
Fogg, the hard part about empathizing is that I actually couldn't do something like this. It's like those people that shake a baby that gets killed. I can empathize with being angry. I can empathize with losing your temper and getting carried away. But when it comes to taking the life of a baby, I guess I just hit this inner barrier that doesn't understand how that line could be crossed. Same with D. I get resentment. I get dysfunction at times. But D? I just go blank because I can't comprehend that choice.
Anyway, my mom was there, and we went to dinner afterwards. She tells me that she believes that this is what STBX always wanted. To raise the kids until they were in school, then to be out of her M. I know the forums have been skeptical about this, but you don't know STBX. I could've been a better H, but I don't know I could've stopped this from happening.
But to Fogg's point, I've been searching for empathy. I am not diagnosing her from a sense of 'what a terrible person, thank goodness I'm rid of her' because that's not what I feel...I feel a devastating loss that we weren't capable of making a M work. But I do feel compassion because I realize that she was deeply wounded in her life (as we all are), maybe in her childhood through her parents divorce, maybe through our M because of me. But I see that she simply didn't have tools to navigate through this. The resentment. The feelings of losing her identity in the M. The dysfunction. All true, and while maybe not insurmountable with two people that are committed to making it through, they were insurmountable for her. It doesn't mean she's not suffering the loss too, and that she won't be trapped by her own warped outlooks and rationalizations.
Tonight I feel truly sad that this person I took into my heart has lost me and our family every bit as much as I lost her and my family. Maybe it meant more to me. Maybe not, and she just couldn't go on. But I can see how much she must be suffering too. I mean, she's medicating like crazy with booze, pot, other men, and social media. I'm sure she's reeling and trying to find her way as we all are.
Mindreading in a lot of ways, projecting, diagnosing, all of that. But my main point is it helps me to overcome my pain and anger to think of her as a flawed human that made a destructive choice and is suffering from it. Because who can't empathize with that? I think we can all say the same about ourselves. So regardless of whether or not I could've ever done the same thing, I can accept there is pain and suffering in the world that we all bring on ourselves.
My job is to address the pain and suffering I bring on myself. DB coach appointment tomorrow. I wish I could talk to her every day. Sometimes I feel like there's not enough time left in my life for the amount of coaching it would take. I just long for a deep and lasting acceptance. I have reached a point where I can get to acceptance with some effort, but it doesn't come naturally, and it is fleeting. It's like I have to work hard to maintain the mindset, and if I wear down I'll default back to suffering again. I think I'm just tired. But it is a tough road to walk. Maybe you guys get it.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Wow, what a tough week. I went to D8's gymnastics tonight. Sat near my other kids which means proximity to STBX.
It's so strange to see. I'm doing great with the kids, and they love me and love spending time with me. They love their mom. Us all together. And STBX could've chosen to remain my wife, and we'd have a family. Instead she has chosen this other path, and I hug my kids and drive home to my apartment, and we negotiate through the fallout of our lives together.
Fogg, the hard part about empathizing is that I actually couldn't do something like this. It's like those people that shake a baby that gets killed. I can empathize with being angry. I can empathize with losing your temper and getting carried away. But when it comes to taking the life of a baby, I guess I just hit this inner barrier that doesn't understand how that line could be crossed. Same with D. I get resentment. I get dysfunction at times. But D? I just go blank because I can't comprehend that choice.
I get what your saying but I'm not sure I agree comppletely. There was a time when I said I could never do what my W has done either, all that destruction to a family to pursue a selfish desire. I still hope I wouldn't do that if I were in that position but the fact is I will never know until I am tested in that way. I now believe there exists a set of conditions in which anyone is capable of anything, some of us just have much lower threshold to what it would take. Maybe you would never do what your W would do this easily, but its still possible it could happen. Say your W came home every day and took a baseball bat and knocked you out and then got drunk and passed out leaving your children to fend for themselves. In that case you would likely see D as an option, eventually. To her, emotional needs being unmet both ways and no tools to fix it is that baseball bat every day. Not saying its right or even fair, just how we humans operate at times.
We don't always set out with the intent to cross certain lines, it just happens when we let our emotions take over control.
Anyway, my mom was there, and we went to dinner afterwards. She tells me that she believes that this is what STBX always wanted. To raise the kids until they were in school, then to be out of her M. I know the forums have been skeptical about this, but you don't know STBX. I could've been a better H, but I don't know I could've stopped this from happening.
Family tend to say what they think will make us feel better in the moment so I wouldn't think too much about it. Its possible this was your W's intent all along, who knows. If it was, you got some awesome kids out of the deal and are free to move on and find someone that deserves your love now. If not, then things just played out how they played out and you still got awesome kids and personal growth.
One thing that helps me get through this at times is seeing it as a blessing. Don't look at it like your future with your W and family was taken away. Look at it as this experience and personal growth has prepared you for the future you were always meant to have. It could still be with W, who knows. I know I'm only into this 6 months now where your twice that time. I'm sure ill experiences changes in mindset later, but this is whats helping me now.
But to Fogg's point, I've been searching for empathy. I am not diagnosing her from a sense of 'what a terrible person, thank goodness I'm rid of her' because that's not what I feel...I feel a devastating loss that we weren't capable of making a M work. But I do feel compassion because I realize that she was deeply wounded in her life (as we all are), maybe in her childhood through her parents divorce, maybe through our M because of me. But I see that she simply didn't have tools to navigate through this. The resentment. The feelings of losing her identity in the M. The dysfunction. All true, and while maybe not insurmountable with two people that are committed to making it through, they were insurmountable for her. It doesn't mean she's not suffering the loss too, and that she won't be trapped by her own warped outlooks and rationalizations.
This is all good. I think you have empathy for her already, the pain of what you could have is just getting in the way. I was stuck on the future me and W could have if we both tried for a long time, still am. My IC told me to stop focusing so much on a future that has no grounds in reality. Its possible that future could exist, but its also possible that future could never have existed. We don't know for sure, so why cling to either possibility.
Tonight I feel truly sad that this person I took into my heart has lost me and our family every bit as much as I lost her and my family. Maybe it meant more to me. Maybe not, and she just couldn't go on. But I can see how much she must be suffering too. I mean, she's medicating like crazy with booze, pot, other men, and social media. I'm sure she's reeling and trying to find her way as we all are.
My W is self medicating with almost all of those things also. For me, that's exactly what I see the situation as. Shes trying to find herself and has to cross off all the wrong ways before she can see the right way. Maybe that will happen, maybe not. We just have to remember now matter how much damage they do to us, this isn't about us. Its about them.
Mindreading in a lot of ways, projecting, diagnosing, all of that. But my main point is it helps me to overcome my pain and anger to think of her as a flawed human that made a destructive choice and is suffering from it. Because who can't empathize with that? I think we can all say the same about ourselves. So regardless of whether or not I could've ever done the same thing, I can accept there is pain and suffering in the world that we all bring on ourselves.
My job is to address the pain and suffering I bring on myself. DB coach appointment tomorrow. I wish I could talk to her every day. Sometimes I feel like there's not enough time left in my life for the amount of coaching it would take. I just long for a deep and lasting acceptance. I have reached a point where I can get to acceptance with some effort, but it doesn't come naturally, and it is fleeting. It's like I have to work hard to maintain the mindset, and if I wear down I'll default back to suffering again. I think I'm just tired. But it is a tough road to walk. Maybe you guys get it.
I get it, this process wears on us in ways we never imagined. I cant imagine what another 6 months will do to me, much less years. You do a great job working on yourself and leaving W to her journey. That acceptance and fighting for it is also natural, we don't change overnight so we have to continue to fight for those changes that feel unnatural to take hold. Fake it until you make it.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
I get what your saying but I'm not sure I agree comppletely. There was a time when I said I could never do what my W has done either, all that destruction to a family to pursue a selfish desire. I still hope I wouldn't do that if I were in that position but the fact is I will never know until I am tested in that way. I now believe there exists a set of conditions in which anyone is capable of anything, some of us just have much lower threshold to what it would take. Maybe you would never do what your W would do this easily, but its still possible it could happen. Say your W came home every day and took a baseball bat and knocked you out and then got drunk and passed out leaving your children to fend for themselves. In that case you would likely see D as an option, eventually. To her, emotional needs being unmet both ways and no tools to fix it is that baseball bat every day. Not saying its right or even fair, just how we humans operate at times.
Fogg, I love you but I strenuously object. I've heard this line of reasoning before and it doesn't work.
If someone broke into my home and attacked my kids, yes, I could kill. If I was on a desert island with another woman and 10 years went by, yes, I might break my marital vows.
Inventing unimaginably horrible extremes hypothetically and then using it as an argument that we're all cheaters and murderers, it's just a matter of when we pull the trigger...that doesn't jive with me. I am willing to believe that you might be unsure at your breaking point, but don't project that onto me. I can assure you that I will not EVER cheat on my partner, nor would I have ever have abandoned my M.
I do appreciate your participation and am totally fine hearing your outlook. Regardless of whether I would've ever done the same, whether it is helpful to dwell on that is another story. I spoke with DB coach today, let her know that it was just not coming easy. That every day I get to a place of peace, but it takes daily effort. And that sometimes I am exhausted and just fall back into the pain. She told me that when we go through crisis we have to "live intentionally". That usually in life we can kind of auto-pilot our way through, and that doesn't work at times like these.
She made the point that it's when we're suffering that we show our true character and faith. And when things are going good there's no reason to fear the ground falling out from under our feet again- because it WILL. So no reason to be afraid, just know it will happen and trust in our faith and our character to lead through. And that we are being put through this to be strengthened to be the people God wants us to be.
I can get on board with that. And you know what- it's ok. I'm getting through. Honestly I'm surprised at how well most of the time, so I keep being appreciative that I have been given a path. It's not downhill with a tail wind, it's not the path I would've chosen, but it's a path, and it has it's own challenges and rewards and adventures and scenic views. So I'll just trudge on and try to find a good tune to whistle.
Take care all!
Last edited by Zues126; 06/24/1512:27 AM.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
If someone broke into my home and attacked my kids, yes, I could kill. If I was on a desert island with another woman and 10 years went by, yes, I might break my marital vows.
Do you really believe this?? 10 years on an island with a woman WITHOUT any action??!!! skeptical eyebrow raise
All it takes is for a woman to rub your upper thigh...and you'll melt like Frosty on, well, a desert island.
I respect what your saying Zeus, and I'm bad at getting my point across the way I intend. I'm sure this caused issues with conversing with W also, lol.
I wasn't trying to project my own insecurities onto you, and I apologize if I did. I don't believe I could abandon my M or cheat on my W either and I do hope my faith and integrity would guide me through a situation like that. However, I just don't know for sure, I've never been tested in that way. Something my IC told me early on was its easy to say you have morals when things are going good, but those morals are really tested when things are going bad. So logically I have to accept since I've never been tested in this way I cant say with 100% accuracy what I would and wouldn't do.
That keeps me grounded and humble when comparing my morals to my W's. Shes failed hers right now but I cant say I wouldn't do the same if life shits all over and breaks me.
"And that we are being put through this to be strengthened to be the people God wants us to be."
Yes^^ I believe W was put through this to be strengthened also. If she accepts that strength/growth is yet to be determined.
But we can agree to disagree on the specifics, I'm fine with that. We all use whatever tools and thoughts to cope in the way we need, this is mine
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
If someone broke into my home and attacked my kids, yes, I could kill. If I was on a desert island with another woman and 10 years went by, yes, I might break my marital vows.
Do you really believe this?? 10 years on an island with a woman WITHOUT any action??!!! skeptical eyebrow raise
All it takes is for a woman to rub your upper thigh...and you'll melt like Frosty on, well, a desert island.
Z, I'm with Wonka on this one. LOL
Wonka, you have quite a way with words. (a gigantic smile on my face)
Hang in there Zues!
Bob
Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS) M:14 yrs T:15 yrs No children together--3 each from previous marriages Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14 Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14 Divorce Final: 10/21/15
