Journaling: Feeling hopeful with the new STBX contact boundaries set. Should be another great day with the kiddos. D4 is super excited for the children's museum. Her enthusiasm is contagious!
Last night, STBX texted: "Can you please be nice?" I didn't reply. Then, this morning she texted: "Good morning. How are the kids?" When I didn't immediately respond, she called. I didn't answer.
I contemplated my response. I thought about Starsky and T0's advice to adopt a detachment mindset. In doing so, the right reaction will be apparent. Then, I thought about Claire's advice about a mother's need to check on her young children.
I think this comes down to a discussion about the letter of the boundary versus the spirit of the boundary. I could approach it as no contact means no contact, while opening myself up to another argument and anger. OR I could simply satisfy a mother's basic need, still keep the boundary intact, and set myself up for no contact the rest of the afternoon. That's a lot of explanation to say that I replied to STBX's TM.
Me: They're great W: Good. Have fun with them and let them know I said hello. W: Saw this and was reminded of you and D4 (STBX sent link to a local wildlife refuge)
A lot of thinking to try not to overthink it. Haha. Such is life as a LBS on the DB journey!
Have a great Sunday everybody.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
Hi Defacto, I'm glad things seemed to go well with your message to W last night and her subsequent call.
I think it's all about balance - at one end of the spectrum we have W calling/texting 10+ times a day, which could be really intrusive. At the other end we have an H being a real @ss about access to the kids when they are with him. Neither of those is great for anyone, but there's healthy middle ground and I think the plan of a call a day if asked for is a good one.
As for anything further than that - like this morning. Well IMHO it's fine, and your minimal response was probably all that was needed. If you hadn't responded at all, the messages may have kept on coming...
Nice that D4 is so excited - bless her! Hope you have a great time at the museum.
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Last night, STBX texted: "Can you please be nice?" I didn't reply.
Excellent.
Originally Posted By: Defacto
Then, this morning she texted: "Good morning. How are the kids?" When I didn't immediately respond, she called. I didn't answer.
EXCELLENT!!
Originally Posted By: Defacto
Then, I thought about Claire's advice about a mother's need to check on her young children.
Claire is right about this need .... and your WW should have thought about this before she decided to go and torpedo her family by getting involved with an OM.
Not being able to "check" on her children as and when she pleases is a normal and natural outcome of choosing adultery.
Originally Posted By: Defacto
I think this comes down to a discussion about the letter of the boundary versus the spirit of the boundary.
Rubbish.
A boundary is a boundary. You would be upset if your neighbour decided to reverse his truck all over your lovely flowerbeds, would you not?
Originally Posted By: Defacto
I could approach it as no contact means no contact, while opening myself up to another argument and anger.
Yes, "no contact" means no contact. Otherwise it wouldn't be called "no contact".
Originally Posted By: Defacto
OR I could simply satisfy a mother's basic need, still keep the boundary intact, and set myself up for no contact the rest of the afternoon.
Let her feel the heat of her decisions. It'll take her a while to realise her discomfort has come from her own choices but it really is essential.
Originally Posted By: Defacto
That's a lot of explanation to say that I replied to STBX's TM.
Yep.
Originally Posted By: Defacto
Me: They're great W: Good. Have fun with them and let them know I said hello. W: Saw this and was reminded of you and D4 (STBX sent link to a local wildlife refuge)
If you really, absolutely had to respond then this was OK. But I wouldn't have done. I took an insane amount of abuse from my Mrs. in 2008/2009 with an OM, financial recklessness and venom gushing from her mouth as if she were a smashed-up fire hydrant. There were weeks when I went "no contact" and she hated it but it was very, very necessary.
I think you have a good grasp of this stuff, Defacto.
GH31
Me: 46 W: 46 T: 23 M: 20 DS12 DD11 DS5
W left: 01/28/08 Discovered OM: 02/26/08 W back for 9 days: 04/08 W returned 05/21/08 EA/PA - 01/08-07/09 W's MLC 2008-2014 (realised this much later)
Toots & GH, Thanks so much for your feedback. I would be lost at sea without everyone checking in and offering such valuable advice!
Journaling; The kids and I had such an amazing day! The children's museum was so much fun. D4 and S1 loved every minute of it. I did too and we'll definitely go back.
STBX didn't text or call until just after 8pm. She spoke with D4 on speakerphone for a minute or so. I did very little talking. I only acted as a translator and I answered a few questions when STBX asked what we did today. We said our goodbyes a few moments later.
Obviously, the conversations with STBX are limited now. I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss the small talk calls we used to have a week ago. It's tough not having one of your best friends to talk to. However, I don't miss the worrying and anxiety that comes with STBX's intermittent phone calls and TMs. Also, I can feel that the limited interaction is helping me to detach.
Anyway, a wonderful day and a great weekend with the kids. After tonight, I have three nights to myself. Nothing set in stone yet, but I should have some GAL plans each night.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
Obviously, the conversations with STBX are limited now. I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss the small talk calls we used to have a week ago. It's tough not having one of your best friends to talk to. However, I don't miss the worrying and anxiety that comes with STBX's intermittent phone calls and TMs. Also, I can feel that the limited interaction is helping me to detach.
That's how it worked for me to. The transition is pretty remarkable.
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
STBX came over early this morning to pick up the kids. She wasn't in her scrubs so she didn't work last night. She sat down right next to me on the couch and leaned into me. Later, she put her head on my shoulder and put her arm through my elbow. I let her do this but didn't reciprocate. She also mentioned that she liked my work outfit and that I looked good.
She was early and D4 was still sleeping, so we had a friendly chat about my weekend with the kids. I was friendly and engaged. A couple of times, STBX would start to tell a story and say something like "this made me think of you." We caught each other's glances a few times and held it. There was another time that I knew she turned to look at me but I just kept looking straight. Also, she finished up telling a story from work and said "thanks for listening." Of course, I validated and made eye contact throughout.
After a bit, I told her that I had to finish getting ready and I went upstairs. Then, I woke up D4 and I carried her downstairs. In a few minutes, we all exited my house together.
As I finished loading up the kids, I stood and put my hands in my pockets. STBX asked, "Can I have a hug?" I leaned in to give her a hug and she held me tight. After a few moments, I began to release from the embrace. I wished her a good time with the kids. As I was getting into my car, she waved and blew me a kiss and STBX stopped me as I was getting ready to drive away because D4 wanted to say goodbye or blow me a kiss too. Then, STBX gave me one final wave. I smiled and returned the wave.
Anyway, not reading too much into this, but obviously, it feels good to have a positive interaction with STBX. Seems like a lot of temp checking on her part after limiting contact over the weekend. I tried hard to be effortless and friendly in my interaction with her. I certainly didn't want to come off as cold and disinterested, especially because our interactions are fewer now. However, I did have T0's comment in the back of my mind about a WW having a feel for when the LBS is still attached. Honestly, I'm not sure how to accomplish this without being curt, definitely something I can continue to improve upon.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
Toots & GH, Obviously, the conversations with STBX are limited now. I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss the small talk calls we used to have a week ago. It's tough not having one of your best friends to talk to. However, I don't miss the worrying and anxiety that comes with STBX's intermittent phone calls and TMs. Also, I can feel that the limited interaction is helping me to detach.
Completely understand, Defacto - that's where I am. My ww have limited to no conversations while the other has the boys. It's nice to have that privacy and be able to truly just be with them. However, there are songs, places I drive by, shows, new stories, etc that hit me and I think "man I can't wait to tell ww about this" and then I stop myself.
It feels like a piece of me I want to release and share, without a place to go. The more it goes on, the more I will continue to find outlets within myself or others than just her. I'm sure you will to!
Glad to hear you had a good weekend!
M-33 W-33 S-11, S-8 M-11, T-14 BD - 12/26, Divorce Filing and admits to affair (her) 4/18 I moved out 5/23
I did have T0's comment in the back of my mind about a WW having a feel for when the LBS is still attached. Honestly, I'm not sure how to accomplish this without being curt, definitely something I can continue to improve upon.
The only way is to truly become detached.
After you go down a path of spending months monitoring her reactions to your behavior, pining, demonstrating changes, and seeing her 'warm up'...only to realize you are being played the fool repeatedly be a kid in an adult's body trying to keep everyone on her side so she can avoid consequences and keep her options open...you will grow tired of it all.
I'd encourage you to find and read my first threads. If not from the very beginning maybe from 8/1 to 9/5. This covered the same time period for me (months 2-3 after BD) and it shows how she 'warmed up'. It also shows the outcome. Let's just say by October I was much more detached.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
After you go down a path of spending months monitoring her reactions to your behavior, pining, demonstrating changes, and seeing her 'warm up'...only to realize you are being played the fool repeatedly be a kid in an adult's body trying to keep everyone on her side so she can avoid consequences and keep her options open...you will grow tired of it all.
This!
Just because she is doing these things .. It means nothing! It's okay to notice but don't take more than 0.0001 seconds to even think about it because until she says she's willing to do anything to work on your M it really is just that - her seeing if you're still hanging on.
I'll go blue in the face repeating myself - she needs to feel what it's like to lose you. I personally think you were too receptive to her in this interaction. Aren't you busy? Don't you have a lot going on? You don't have time to keep validating her all the time. You're on the go if she starts talking about herself and trying to be friendly you can still politely excuse yourself .. Hey I'd love to talk but I really have to run. We can catch up another time. And NO there doesn't have to be another time --- but isn't that how you would treat a neighbor? Friendly but busy
And the hugging is difficult .. I mean I don't think you should be hugging her. Maybe next time get right in the car so you can say bye to her from the car and won't be in that situation again.
Remember strong and confident? The guy that is independent and won't put up with her crap but is polite and has a smile on his face ... That's you
the hugs: I am concerned she is beginning to treat you like her gay friend. Someone on whom to lean. At best, she is temp checking, making sure you will remain plan B. May feel good for you in the short term. Probably does not make you more attractive (as a husband) in the long run. She is cheating on you. Why are you hugging her???? You are not going to nice her back. I have heard this so many times - as recently as a couple of days ago. You need to detach.
RAI
P.S. I am amazed every time at how bad I am at taking my own advice, BTW
