I really have to agree. You need to find a way to get out of the scenario. Don't do things for her, get out and let her be. I would say and do the same things, as yourself. And it would only make it worse. Right now, you could poop a golden egg, and it wouldn't matter. There has to separation, and longing before any of that can be done. Treating her like she can't do anything for herself, is going to reinforce the negativity. Really look at yourself and find things to fill your time. It will truly help you.
BE, From where I'm sitting and after reading the latest communications between you and your wife...you are controlling. Yeah, you are. You may not even realize that you are but you are using the kids as a way of controlling your wife.
For example, the dryer goes out and you find a way to get the clothes dried....no need to contact her while she's out. It was not an emergency and it could have been something you discussed after she returned. As for emergencies....you are an adult and should be able to take care of things during the time you are w/the kids. Yes, you can phone and leave a message, but you don't need to tell someone that they need to have their phone attached to their hip when they are away. People do check their messages and in your wife's case, she knew you were there and could take care of things.
When your wife is away and you are taking care of the kids...that's on you. Your wife needed some space and that's her decision if she wants to leave and go to the beach, out to eat, etc. In fact, we encourage our "rational" spouses to be in another part of the house, be busy and/or leave the home when the crisis people are there visiting children...so what she's doing is no different.
Again, I do not think you realize that you are "telling" her what you want her to do. Step back, you can't control her or her actions. You can only control yourself and if you want a different outcome, then you will need to change how you interact w/her.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
BEC, When your wife isn't around, if something happens that is a non-emergency, then wait until she returns to advise her of what happened.
When you are speaking to your wife, make suggestions, not tell her what she should do or not do. You have to give her the option of agreeing or not.
When responding to suggestions that she is making, try not to reply in a knee jerk reaction. Instead advise her that you want to think about what she's suggesting and you'll get back to her. When you do, state calmly and concisely what you would like to do in the way of meeting her half way or pointing out how it looks to you.
I'm sure others will have some suggestions as well.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
BEC, When your wife isn't around, if something happens that is a non-emergency, then wait until she returns to advise her of what happened.
When you are speaking to your wife, make suggestions, not tell her what she should do or not do. You have to give her the option of agreeing or not.
When responding to suggestions that she is making, try not to reply in a knee jerk reaction. Instead advise her that you want to think about what she's suggesting and you'll get back to her. When you do, state calmly and concisely what you would like to do in the way of meeting her half way or pointing out how it looks to you.
I'm sure others will have some suggestions as well.
My interactions with my W have been better this week than they have been in quite a long time. Even this morning when I dropped off the laundry before work she was relaxed. Thanked me for what I did and engaged me in some conversation.
I'm trying to show her love without pressure. I've done alot of reading on this site and have seen varying methods and situations.
My understanding on Michelle's advice is to:
Listen to our Spouse: What are they telling us about why they want out of the marriage.
Do 180s: Utilize the information you know from listening to your space to truly and genuinely change the behaviors that have led to your R falling apart and stay consistent with those changes.
Show your spouse the person they fell in love with through ACTIONS
She also stresses that we are to PAY ATTENTION to how our spouses are reacting or behaving or interacting with us in order to gauge what is working and what is not working.
I've spent quite a bit of time reading success stories and people seem to vary their ways of utilizing the approaches based upon their particular situation.
For me I have realized two things that don't work:
The first was complete space without recognizing my need for change. This occurred during November through February (our 3 months "temporary separation"). I just stayed the same old me. Waited for three months and left my wife alone. She saw no change. She concluded she's better off without me.
The second has been March through about a week ago: Showing change but combining that with pursuing like crazy and bothering her about "us". This also proved to be a disaster.
This week has been a different approach and I think I can find some success with it: It is a matter of combining showing genuine change (and believe me my changes are for real) through action while allowing her space and freedom to breathe.
She is starting to relax because I am not talking about us. I am not pressuring her. And at the same time she is starting to show appreciation for the actions I'm taking. How good I have been with the children. How I am there for her to assist and help her out with things.
I want to continue with this approach for a while and see if she continues to soften.
I believe, based upon what Michelle writes, that we have to pay attention to our interaction with our spouses and have to monitor their behaviors because that is how we gauge what works and what doesn't work.
I want to show unconditional love without the pressure. Be a good man. A good father. And yes a good husband. These are all of the things that I want to be again. And when I really listen to my W, these are the areas I let slip and the reason she wants out.
But I have to show these things without expectations and without pressure.
BE I see alot of the feedback has been given along with good advice ...... trying to get you to see what you are doing is not really DBing ... I read your post and was almost out of my seat saying NOOOOO.
Thought I would break it down a bit and maybe get you to realize a few things ... again .. only trying to help you out here as I fear if you continue this thing is going to blow up in your lap.
Originally Posted By: BEClem
Forgot to mention W and I were able to communicate that that discussion was ok with her and that my expressing how I initially felt about the big picture (us)that she did not view that as a breach in our agreement on me giving space and her thinking. So that is good: Not really a backslide.
WHY?? No no no R talks .. no us... she fired you remember?? Asking her if she seen this as a breach? Man ... read up DB again... clearly says make the changes and DO NOT point them out right? Do not bring up or worry about a backslide when and if it happens ... accept it .. own it .. LEARN from it and move on.
Originally Posted By: BEClem
One other interaction that occurred this evening: W was out while I was there. Dryer stopped working. I go to check fuse box. Do the trip: Other stuff in the house goes out. So I text her to let her know. No answer. Call and leave VM.
Ok .. TM fine .. again not required here, who cares you are the new man on the scene and you will handle it right? She will feel badgered with you constantly contacting her for these things .. "Hey the light is out on the microwave .. I'm on it.... the door squeaked .. I oiled it" Stop updating and just do it if you want to do it .. DO NOT POINT IT OUT.
Originally Posted By: BEClem
While this is happening W finally calls me back about an hour after I had left her a VM. I tell her what is going on. She said she had been taking a walk on the beach and left her phone in the car because she didn't want any disturbances.
^^ Take that hint man ... I mean she just told you she did not want to be disturbed.
I will spin this a bit ... we gave you the advice to not be so availible, but you explained it was your 180. Question for ya ... if you were not around to do this ... not the man to take care of the washer what would your wife had done? Maybe she calls someone to fix it ... or maybe she thinks ... man .. hate to admit it but BE would have this taken care of. My W has recently told me certain things in her Condo are all jacked up and she realized how much of that stuff I always took care of ... food for thought my man.
Originally Posted By: BEClem
Very calmly I told her that I understand we're going through this whole space thing and that she chooses to leave when I come over. And that is fine. But that we are still married and have the kids. I explained to her that when she leaves I feel she should have her phone readily available because what if an actual emergency occurs.The dryer and power in the house wasn't an emergency, I simply was doing the right thing by informing her of what was happening. But if a real emergency occurred, with the kids or something, she needs to be readily available to answer a call. That I do that for her and she should do the same because as parents it is important.
[i][/i][u][/u]
^^^ Screams fear and control ... you are the man ... you can handle whatever it is ... it was not an emergency but you used this event to provide a what if scare tactic .. you are not going to scare your W back .... can you see how this is pressure added from a non-issue? Ok the washer acted up while she was out collecting her thoughts or doing whatever ... instead of coming back and finding out you handled it without a peep ... she has this scare tactic tossed at her and is made to feel guilty for doing what .... EXCACTLY what she said she needed .. space and time away from you which you intruded on.
BE .. I say this because I was there, I seen how the scared hurt little boy can wreck this part ... you have to get detached and stop pursuing. Because all ^^^^ is not attractive ... read up on sandi's WW threads .. there are 3 of them and they are golden ... but only if you take away from the pain others have gone through and use the tools provided.
BE I see alot of the feedback has been given along with good advice ...... trying to get you to see what you are doing is not really DBing ... I read your post and was almost out of my seat saying NOOOOO.
Thought I would break it down a bit and maybe get you to realize a few things ... again .. only trying to help you out here as I fear if you continue this thing is going to blow up in your lap.
Originally Posted By: BEClem
Forgot to mention W and I were able to communicate that that discussion was ok with her and that my expressing how I initially felt about the big picture (us)that she did not view that as a breach in our agreement on me giving space and her thinking. So that is good: Not really a backslide.
WHY?? No no no R talks .. no us... she fired you remember?? Asking her if she seen this as a breach? Man ... read up DB again... clearly says make the changes and DO NOT point them out right? Do not bring up or worry about a backslide when and if it happens ... accept it .. own it .. LEARN from it and move on.
Originally Posted By: BEClem
One other interaction that occurred this evening: W was out while I was there. Dryer stopped working. I go to check fuse box. Do the trip: Other stuff in the house goes out. So I text her to let her know. No answer. Call and leave VM.
Ok .. TM fine .. again not required here, who cares you are the new man on the scene and you will handle it right? She will feel badgered with you constantly contacting her for these things .. "Hey the light is out on the microwave .. I'm on it.... the door squeaked .. I oiled it" Stop updating and just do it if you want to do it .. DO NOT POINT IT OUT.
Originally Posted By: BEClem
While this is happening W finally calls me back about an hour after I had left her a VM. I tell her what is going on. She said she had been taking a walk on the beach and left her phone in the car because she didn't want any disturbances.
^^ Take that hint man ... I mean she just told you she did not want to be disturbed.
I will spin this a bit ... we gave you the advice to not be so availible, but you explained it was your 180. Question for ya ... if you were not around to do this ... not the man to take care of the washer what would your wife had done? Maybe she calls someone to fix it ... or maybe she thinks ... man .. hate to admit it but BE would have this taken care of. My W has recently told me certain things in her Condo are all jacked up and she realized how much of that stuff I always took care of ... food for thought my man.
Originally Posted By: BEClem
Very calmly I told her that I understand we're going through this whole space thing and that she chooses to leave when I come over. And that is fine. But that we are still married and have the kids. I explained to her that when she leaves I feel she should have her phone readily available because what if an actual emergency occurs.The dryer and power in the house wasn't an emergency, I simply was doing the right thing by informing her of what was happening. But if a real emergency occurred, with the kids or something, she needs to be readily available to answer a call. That I do that for her and she should do the same because as parents it is important.
[i][/i][u][/u]
^^^ Screams fear and control ... you are the man ... you can handle whatever it is ... it was not an emergency but you used this event to provide a what if scare tactic .. you are not going to scare your W back .... can you see how this is pressure added from a non-issue? Ok the washer acted up while she was out collecting her thoughts or doing whatever ... instead of coming back and finding out you handled it without a peep ... she has this scare tactic tossed at her and is made to feel guilty for doing what .... EXCACTLY what she said she needed .. space and time away from you which you intruded on.
BE .. I say this because I was there, I seen how the scared hurt little boy can wreck this part ... you have to get detached and stop pursuing. Because all ^^^^ is not attractive ... read up on sandi's WW threads .. there are 3 of them and they are golden ... but only if you take away from the pain others have gone through and use the tools provided.
Points all taken Cal. But what about my thoughts from today?
