New LBS in

[PigPen]

Thank you Zeus and V for posting, and to Bob for posting.

I missed your responses until Bob just posted so I apologize for not addressing them

Zeus - I've read NMMNG twice this week and was starting to ask myself, "Heck, what would a healthy male do in my situation?" Would he walk? Would he stay? And I was really stumped, and still really am.

Your thoughts have been echoed by many people in my life who tell me, "She's now left you three times, how many times does she have to leave you before you get it - she just wasn't that into you?"

V - Thank you very much. I've never worked so hard on myself in my entire life. I've "quit drinking" 5 times or more but it wasn't until my W left that I walked into my first AA meeting. I've quit smoking pot 20 times before but it wasn't until my W left that I called a counselor and said, "I have an addiction I can't quit on my own and need help, will you help me?"

But I think I get what you're saying, just do this for me and let everyone else take care of themselves.

Thanks for chiming in you guys, I really do appreciate it and apologize for not responding faster.

[PigPen]

PigPen,

How do you feel after posting about areas of your behavior and personality that needed work?

I am so EXTREMELY proud of you that you are making time to take a personal inventory of things you need to work on, steps you have taken and sharing them with the group. I know it's not easy, trust me! But it will help you heal and enable us to help you as well.

Keep up the great job and you will change. Hopefully, your wife will notice someday.

I've been thinking about you but have been extra busy the last few days. I'll say a prayer for you soon.

Your friend,

Bob

Sorry again Bob, I missed this but want to answer it in case others are reading as well.

It's been very hard for me to be honest with people about my shortcomings. I was in a position at home where I was the "authority" in my field and never felt like I could have mistakes of my own. By denying my own humanity it brought more shame, more seclusion and more stress....thus necessitating more drinking, smoking, and hiding the fact that I wasn't perfect.

I've been honest with everyone who asks about the challenges I had with substances, stress, and insecurity and everyone has replied with something along the same lines of, "welcome to being human." And what do you know, they still think I'm fun to hang out with and be around.

Part of my process has been about telling the truth no matter what the consequences and realizing that people still love me, want to work with me, and be around me. It's been more than liberating.

Thank you for keeping my thread alive and for always checking in on me Bob!

[Zues126]

Zeus - I've read NMMNG twice this week and was starting to ask myself, "Heck, what would a healthy male do in my situation?" Would he walk? Would he stay? And I was really stumped, and still really am.

Pig Pen...I've posted on Smothy's thread lately in response to Py, check it out. But essentially the point is the questions we tend to ask ourselves constantly in the beginning DON'T MATTER AND DON'T HELP.

How could she do this?
Is she going to change her mind?
Do I want her back?
How could we ever rebuild from here?

Sound familiar? So many people feel the need to have the outcome figured out. Guess what- you'll know in two years. Probably.

But here is the key- even if you knew those answers, the next steps would be the same. Detach. Work on yourself. Grow. GAL. 180. Post.

Since that is the direction, there's no reason to continuously rehash what might or might not happen in the future.

Sure, it's ok and unavoidable to do to some extent. But when you find yourself on that topic, be strong enough to shut it down. Usually people try to force the issue and say "she'll never come back" or "We could never recover now" just because they can't stand the unknown. That's about fear, control, etc. Be strong enough to say "meh, it doesn't matter, I'm walking this path for me, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it". That is the mantra of a warrior. Be strong my friend.

[PigPen]

Thank you Zeus, you're 100% right.

As much as I hate bringing it all back to her, my W gave the exact same advice after she left. Told me to learn how to take care of myself, find ways that make me happy and fulfilled outside of our M, and to start living again. In other words - grow, GAL, and 180. And to do it all for me, not for her.

By asking myself those questions about whether she was fully into our M or not, I am also taking the heat off of myself for all that I did wrong within it - lying, missing opportunities for us to grow together, shutting her out, numbing myself, and more. I'm not beating myself up any more for my actions but am taking 100% responsibility for them. My DB coach said that's the only way to heal from them and make sure that they don't repeat in a new R, regardless of who that R is with.

GAL'ing sure is scary though, it definitely takes faith to envision a future without my W (even though she's long gone) and possibly without any W or any R. Especially given how close we were to having children and how much I still want to have them.

I guess that's why they call it faith.

[PigPen]

Journaling:

Getting some anxiety dreams about returning home next week from being abroad. I planned this trip when my W left and think I mistakenly pinned the hope that I would come back from it 100% ok with everything.

Now I know when I get home the real work begins of living in my town without my W, letting friends know that we've separated and being OK on my own without living in a foreign bubble with no responsibilities. Continuing to detach and dive into GAL'ing at home will definitely put me out of my comfort zone but I'm ready.

My plan is to go back to AA meetings as soon as I get home. Zues's thread to Parker made me realize that there's a big difference between abstinence and sobriety. I know believe that abstinence is like holding your breath, sobriety is learning how to breathe a whole new way.

I've found men's grout that meets once a month and have joined that as well. This was recommended in NMMNG. I'm taking cooking classes, continuing to see an IC and picking up the guitar with another friend that is going through a similar situation.

Copeis of DB and DR are waiting for me when I get home. Will be reading both before anyone knows that I've even landed.

At some point I know I'm going to have to meet with my W per my DB Coach's advice and let her know of what I've learned on my trip. To admit that I had lied about my addictions, apologize for the numerous roles they played in our M, and let her know of the steps I've taken to make myself whole. It's going to be hard, but I'm ready to be 100% honest and not hold anything back with no expectations. We've had completely NC for two months which has been excruciating but completely necessary in hindsight.

I only wish I'd found DB before I left the country and did just about everything other than what is recommended.

[TenBook]

Be thankful that you didn't find DB until a year later.

=)

[PigPen]

Ha! Thanks TenBook.

Once I read Sandi's rules, I realized I'd done exactly the opposite of them over and over and over again.

The one time I detached (after getting the "I think it's best that we just consider each other BFF's from now on email'), and went dark for a week thinking that the D papers would soon follow, I got a phone call from my W telling me how much it hurt her that I had closed my heart to her! I immediately followed up with texts, calls, emails, notes, the works, now knowing that she wanted to R. Let's just say it backfired.

[Zues126]

Journaling:
At some point I know I'm going to have to meet with my W per my DB Coach's advice and let her know of what I've learned on my trip. To admit that I had lied about my addictions, apologize for the numerous roles they played in our M, and let her know of the steps I've taken to make myself whole. It's going to be hard, but I'm ready to be 100% honest and not hold anything back with no expectations. We've had completely NC for two months which has been excruciating but completely necessary in hindsight.

Follow your DB coach advice, just make sure you're clear on the nuances. Generally we talk about DEMONSTRATING change, not TALKING about it. An action is worth 1,000 words. However, if done right it could be ok.

What does done right mean? Really, no expectations. And no pursuit. I would think the correct delivery would be almost like a saying non-verbally "I was wrong in our M, I am sorry for the pain this caused, I know it's too late and we're going different and I'm glad you'll recover, I too will recover and am getting the help I need to be ok, so to someone that once was a big part of my life take care and know the future will be good for both of us".

Don't let it be a non-verbal sales pitch as to why she should give you another chance. The idea is to not only take ownership for your failings, but also forgive her for the decision she made to end the R by showing compassion and that you understand why she has to go on her own path. All of this, without saying too much.

At least that is how I would interpret this in the context of no pursuit or control.

So really make sure you get to that point, because if you're speaking those words with expectation, or without having compassion and acceptance for her decision...then it might not go so well.

I was advised to write a letter to my STBX and rehearsed it with my DB coach before giving it to her. I would recommend spending at least one session writing out what your talking points are, then working with your DB coach to help reach a point where you can deliver them sincerely without emotions welling up that would hijack your conversation or make your tone and body language not sabotage the material.

All that said, it is a good move for YOU. Don't expect it to change your W. But it will be good for you to have some closure. And it will serve as a "Mission Statement" that your actions and outlooks will have to match going forward. Not just around your W, but as you navigate through the next year's rollercoaster and are tempted to be drawn in to blaming, excusing, or judging.

[PigPen]

Thanks again for all of your advice Zues. It's going to be a hard conversation but one I'm ready for - for me. I lied to her repeatedly about the extent of what I was doing and was truly living a double life. I'm using the talk as a way of letting her, me and the Universe know that this is how I live in the world now.

Question for some of the vets, or even you - how do you show that you're still sober without talking about it (and obviously still being that way)? How do you show that you're still going to AA meetings without talking about it? How do I show that I've joined a men's group without talking about it? How do you show that you're happy in your new life without highlighting aspects of it?

I've seen on here over and over that actions speak louder than words and our WAS wants to see the actions, but will she just pick up on the changes in me? I really do feel like I've made huge changes but don't know how to "show" her in the hour that we're together without really spelling them out.

[Zues126]

I would think first you have to make changes.

Then she has to be interested enough to do a little snooping on her end.

Then enough time has to go by that she believes they are real, and not either an attempt to win her back or a phase that you're going through.

Her interest, her belief...those things you can't control. That's why you need to make the changes for you.

But while it may seem difficult for her to see those changes- it would be impossible if you don't make them. And while she may not see them directly (she may not know you go to AA for example), she may see changes indirectly in the way you handle yourself (more honest, more mature, better at handling conflict, etc).

Now the main thing is not to worry about it. Detachment means accepting the fact that you could change into a fairy godmother and she might never look back. That's life. Getting your head around that might be the biggest change of all...