In the process of separating - Help!

[Zues126]

Agreed to not loop her in. It would appear very controlling, suspicious, desperate, and maybe even a bit crazy in his eyes.

There are pros and cons of trying to uncover an EA/PA. Right now I would vote against any kind of snooping. Your main priority needs to be detaching and keeping your eyes on your own behavior. I totally understand why so many of your posts revolve around your H, but if you want to make progress you have to let him go on his journey separate from yours.

One question in DR/DB is what would you do with your life if your H just wasn't around anymore? I think it's a good one to answer. Might give you some ideas of what you can be doing for yourself.

Hope you're making it through EMO.

[Painter]

Can any of the vets tell me how you know if your WAS has an EA?

H is good friends with a married lady who is active in the school community. He taught both her kids and my youngest is good friends with her youngest son. She even looked after my youngest D when she attended the same preschool as her son.

They are both on the school council, she owns a play gym which he takes the kids to most time on Friday. He even initiated that the kids play hockey because her boys played there.

H went to talk to her after he asked for separation. I got really jealous and made a snide remark "oH you spoke to OW". H defended her saying she has done a lot to help us out and that she has actually got him to look at how I would feel and has defended my feelings. Its probably one friend he does have.

H has said there is no attraction physically/emotionally going on - I do not think there is a PA but EA perhaps? I know her she knows me (but not well enough)and she is very nice and friendly, and has even said if I needed support with the kids she could help out.

Should I talk to her upfront? Part of me wants to but I think H would be furious with not trusting his words..

I haven't read the beginning of this thread yet - going back to start from the beginning, but just posting about this last issue:

I'm not a vet here, but this sounds classic to me. It's how H started his relationship with me (we were just friends and he told me he was separated at the time), and how he started his affair with OW.

Defending her is also typical. He has confided in her about your relationship and that is inappropriate. If he wants to talk to someone, suggest IC or MC.

I think all you can do is tell H that you are HIGHLY uncomfortable with this woman being involved in your marriage problems, and that it is a very typical and dangerous situation. Ask him how he would feel if you had done the same thing with a man. All you can do, is express how you feel and hope he respects your wishes.

I started talking to a male friend about our difficulties when it got really rough between H and myself. I cut off contact with him after a while because it got uncomfortable because it was inappropriate. I was not the least bit attracted to this guy, but I know he was attracted to me.

A separation should be a time for the two of you to focus on your marriage and what you can do to repair it. If there is another person involved, a 'friend' of the opposite sex, it will make it extremely difficult to repair the M. If you can get him to go to MC, the counselor will hopefully back you up on this.

I told my H that is he was involved with OW on any level, there would be no reconciliation or attempt to work on the M. Also, if he wanted to separate at any point to 'shop around', like he has said a few times, there will be no way back - that's a one-way street to divorce. I have been very clear on that with him.

He claims that he could be with OW while I was away because we were separated (he decided without telling me), but that's actually illegal in our state, unless you have a legal agreement specifying that it's agreed on. This is not the only state where you're 100% married until divorced.

I think it's okay to show a WAS what they are risking. I've set some very clear boundaries in place for H, in a calm and matter-of-fact way, but he knows I mean it. I think that has pulled him back down on the ground and made him realize what he stands to lose.

[Zues126]

Painter, I respect you and your point of view. I happen to feel differently and am only posting so EMO has a range of options to choose from.

EMO, I feel you've been extremely controlling during your M, and you two are in a very tightly woven and destructive dance. I feel you need to separate from each other right now.

You are not here to define what a separation looks like. You don't get to decide that. You don't get to control him. Ultimatums about an affair are just more control. They don't work, and just drive him further away. I understand that Painter suggested more of a boundary than an ultimatum, but I don't perceive it this way.

Telling him you are uncomfortable with this R, that it's inappropriate...again, more control over his behavior. Asking how he'd like it- he'll defend, minimize. All of this just seems like a recipe to start another fight and stay focused on him.

By the way, I'm not disagreeing that the R is inappropriate for a HEALTHY M that has two committed individuals...but right now what he does is none of your concern. Let him go on his path, you take care of you.

OK, now you have two points of view. You can decide which one seems like the right path for your highest and best spiritual self to follow.

[EMO1234]

Zues- thanks will not engage with her. Spoke to my counsellor about it and said that he probably hasn't realised there is an emotional connection.

Painter - even though we are in the process of separation my H said to no reconciliation. I agree separation should be about what we can do to focus on this marriage but H has different ideas, he wants the D after 12 months though he has not said that to me directly.

I don't think he even sees how inappropriate it is to talk to a female friend about our relationship. GF to GF yes but MF to GF not so sure.

Anyhow I've got requested her mobile number from him and he gave it to me without hesitation. So my plan is to continue to be polite and friendly with her.

[EMO1234]

Zues, respect and appreciate your views, but actually I perceive to him to be controlling during our M. Maybe we were are both trying to control certain aspects of our M, trying to tell each other what we want but not listening..

[Zues126]

I was just making that assumption because of the many controlling actions you've taken since the start of this thread. I don't believe they come out of nowhere one day. And I also believe that many co-dependent relationships are formed where both parties try to control each other in different ways. So though it wasn't your intent or how you perceive yourself, I'd imagine it was his perception and a factor in your M.

But I will tell you I'm not a vet, nor a mind reader. If you are satisfied that controlling doesn't apply to you during the M then you can leave anything I write that doesn't help your journey. Hey- I'm not controlling, so it's fine with me if you aren't either

[EMO1234]

Yes from an external point of view I can see how my recent behaviour and the start of this thread is seen as controlling and negative.

I do believe we have a codependent relationship. Both of us trying to conform to each other's wishes or change. Late last year I was soo annoyed with him for posting pictures of him and our Ds on my FB account - (why? because I felt I needed an identity outside of our M)

I've realised that is what I need to do now. To get an identity - like you said Zues what would I like to be without H. I have a fair mind of the person I would like to be - I've started the process, being more involved in community is my first goal along with getting a job!

[Painter]

Zues, your posts are extremely insightful and you give great advice! I completely respect your input about my post.

I think it's extremely challenging to salvage or revive a marriage if anyone else is involved, and I think what's being described, sounds like the typical start of an EA - been there, done that. I'm not saying to throw in the towel or that all is lost, but the hill is much, much steeper if there is an outsider involved.

It's correct what you say that I presented this to my H as my boundaries, not ultimatums, and not all at once. They came out in conversations as we progressed to reconciliation. It was of course completely his choice if he wanted to reconcile, separate, or go for any other option, and I said that in those same conversations.

But it was necessary for me to draw the boundaries that felt important to me, and I actually think they ultimately made H have more respect for me, as well as snap out of the fog and get more realistic about what he was heading towards. I think my clear lines may have worked as a reality check.

This poster is in a somewhat different situation and a different phase, so different things may work for her. I don't think we should give up our boundaries, though, and I think it's very possible to express one's boundaries without trying to control what the other person does.

For me, it has also allowed me to let go of a lot of small stuff - I don't have to think about what I'm okay with or not as things happen, I can let it go because I know what my big issues are and where I draw the line. Does that make sense?

[Painter]

EMO, I understand about wanting a decision NOW, to end the pain, get a grip on life, know which direction you're going in, wrap things up. Patience in the middle of confusion and pain is almost inhumane to expect. If you can hang in there, you may find a way, though.

Expect to blow it. All we can do is apologize, pick up the pieces and try again. The first time you pick up a guitar, you're not going to make beautiful music.

I've come to the conclusion that this very painful situation is actually an opportunity for me to improve myself and get rid of some bad habits, and possibly for H and myself to revive our M. I have no idea if we'll make it yet. Some days I feel confident, other days I'm very pessimistic. It's become the new normal... Meanwhile, I practice my new self.

I write in a journal as well as on the board. It's more contemplative than writing on a message board, so it has a little different purpose but helps me put thoughts away until counseling or until I have calmed down.

Are you seeing a counselor?

Also I wondered, why did you ask him for her number?

[EMO1234]

Painter - thanks for your support and I am hanging in there. Such a difficult situation to be in. To answer your question, I asked for her mobile number because our eldest D works at her business every Sunday plus I usually give away my youngest D clothes to her youngest D. So valid reasons. I am no way now going to become "her best friend" I do not know her well enough.

The last time I spoke to her I mentioned to her that I hope H is happy with the choice he made. H then texted me to say "please don't tell people I am happy because I am not". I clarified my statement stating that "What I said to the OW, I didn't say you were happy, I meant to say I hope you are resolved with your choice..." I haven't engaged with her since then and I plan not to. It is up to H on how he choices to interact with OW.

Yes seeing a Counselor and she has been brilliant - telling me to move on with my life, baby steps because the pain is so unbearable.