Yes, she knows that I know. I brought it to her when it first started and I happened upon it by looking at a preview of a text message on her phone. I was apologetic about spying. She was fairly unapologetic.
Interesting. Just what did the text message say? I find it interesting that you felt the need to apologize for spying, rather than focusing on her inappropriate behavior.
Did you ever -- and I'm talking way back in February, within a day or two of finding out -- just flat-out say to her "I will not live in an open marriage?" What boundaries, if any, DID you discuss? Or has it just been the don't-ask/don't-tell 500-lb. gorilla in the room for three months?
Starsky
The text message was frankly sexual. I'll hold back on the gritty details, but it was sexual.
I did not say "I will not live in an open marriage" In fact, when I found out about it, I said she did not have to stop and that I perhaps had no right to ask.
Wow, looking back at that is pretty embarrassing. I was a real, honest-to-goodness doormat to some of the most reprehensible behavior I have had to endure from a person.
This, I suppose is the people-pleasing, totally spineless behavior I want to find someone to help me with. I have been reading through Sandi's post on WW and... I'm not sure I can be that yet, but maybe that's the choice that I need to make.
M30 W32 T7 M5 Kids: D4 S1 BD 10/06/14 Took off her ring Still living together
Sorry you are here as well but you will find a lot of support here. Stop snooping,get off Facebook, Instagram, etc. They will drive you nuts, you will read between the lines,check who is commenting,obsessing and driving yourself nutty. I have stayed off since Mother's Day and I feel better for doing so. I hear her phone going off and see her texting and now I just let it go. Detaching is the start.
Me 44 Her 33 T 14 M 7 D 7 S 5 First bomb July 2014 Second bomb May 2015
The text message was frankly sexual. I'll hold back on the gritty details, but it was sexual.
I did not say "I will not live in an open marriage" In fact, when I found out about it, I said she did not have to stop and that I perhaps had no right to ask.
Wow. OK, thank you for being honest. I do think that Sandi's excellent WW threads are a great place for you to start with that particular component (and make no mistake, it's only ONE component -- there are still other things you need to work on, as others are pointing out to you). I understand if you say you're not ready, but I can assure you that until you do address this, your wife is going to continue to lose respect -- and therefore, attraction -- for you.
Can you tell us more what the first 24-48 hours were like following your discovery? What some of the conversations were, and what the in-home dynamic was between the two of you? Try to think back; that is very likely where she would have TESTED you, and it may contain some clues to what you need to do (when you're ready) to regain some power equilibrium.
Again, thanks for being frank and honest, MN. When I go back and read some of my early posts I get horrified as well -- we all do.
The text message was frankly sexual. I'll hold back on the gritty details, but it was sexual.
I did not say "I will not live in an open marriage" In fact, when I found out about it, I said she did not have to stop and that I perhaps had no right to ask.
Wow. OK, thank you for being honest. I do think that Sandi's excellent WW threads are a great place for you to start with that particular component (and make no mistake, it's only ONE component -- there are still other things you need to work on, as others are pointing out to you). I understand if you say you're not ready, but I can assure you that until you do address this, your wife is going to continue to lose respect -- and therefore, attraction -- for you.
Can you tell us more what the first 24-48 hours were like following your discovery? What some of the conversations were, and what the in-home dynamic was between the two of you? Try to think back; that is very likely where she would have TESTED you, and it may contain some clues to what you need to do (when you're ready) to regain some power equilibrium.
Again, thanks for being frank and honest, MN. When I go back and read some of my early posts I get horrified as well -- we all do.
Starsky
Interesting that you would pick that time period as the one that may hold the key to some part of my situation. I say that because to date, that discussion was the only one that seemed to even move the needle on her indifference a little bit. I remember feeling it must have been important, but I don't think I realized why at the time.
The rest of the discussion after my revelation that I knew was about how angry I was at her for not giving me a chance to make changes after her big decision that she wanted out. I was frank and I recall saying very clearly, "I took you for granted and every day that makes me feel like a piece of sh**." I was angry and really fired up. There was no danger to her but she knew I meant what I said. I will get out my journal as soon as I can to try and recollect some of the other details. The next day was very important too, but off the top of my head I can't recall exactly why.
M30 W32 T7 M5 Kids: D4 S1 BD 10/06/14 Took off her ring Still living together
I know the snooping is harmful... but it was an accidental peek at an email (to be fair, a work email we share) that gave me my first hint something wasn't quite right - a "selfie" she'd taken of her and OW with a sunset in the background. The email was titled "last night," and that also tipped me off that she had lied about where she was. Anyway, she spent a whole day texting back and forth voraciously in my presence, and that's when I confronted her about things and she dropped the bomb. I did look at her text messages once or twice after and realized she was pretty much erasing them and covering her tracks. It hurts when she is texting, but I've resolved not to snoop anymore. Like everyone here says, it does no good one way or the other. Can't believe what she says anyway.
Me: 46 Her: 41 M: 5.5 yrs / S: 20, 18 3/26 W and I meet OW BD: 5/2/2015, she takes off ring W goes to stay with OW 6/26 NC: 9/5 Both moved out: 10/16 I take off my ring and feel... healed: 10/19
OK, so I've got my journal out and I'm reading through the entries around my discovery of her texting. So, I remembered my conversation correctly, I did say that she did not have to tell me and I had no right to ask (*sigh*) but afterward I told her she could choose where to sleep. For some reason, I had that backwards in my brain; I thought she had asked me where she wanted me to sleep (that must have been another time). But she chose to sleep in our bed. I must have had some input there, e.g. "I'd prefer if you slept in our bed" but I didn't write it down and I can't remember for sure.
The next day, my W pulled me aside and said she was surprised my by impassioned speech. I didn't see it at the time, but the fact that I even brought it up seemed to have inspired some respect in her, even if the rest of my actions were not particularly inspiring.
Since I didn't take any sort of stand or set any boundary, the texts continued immediately and our relationship returned essentially to status quo. Kind of disappointing, but that is who I have been through most of this debacle.
OK, things I am thinking of doing immediately: 1. Asking her to sleep somewhere other than the marital bed. From Sandi's thread, I can see I should have done this right away, and that by now it's lost much of it's impact. I think it's the right thing to do anyway. 2. Not joining her this weekend with the kids at her parents' lake house. I desperately want to get away and have a good time, but I need to do that through GAL, not through family activities from which she is intent on excising me.
I will tell her these tonight. (I am trying hard not to append "If I can" to my mental statement.
M30 W32 T7 M5 Kids: D4 S1 BD 10/06/14 Took off her ring Still living together
The next day, my W pulled me aside and said she was surprised my by impassioned speech. I didn't see it at the time, but the fact that I even brought it up seemed to have inspired some respect in her, even if the rest of my actions were not particularly inspiring.
Since I didn't take any sort of stand or set any boundary, the texts continued immediately and our relationship returned essentially to status quo.
What does the above tell you, now that you look back on it and you're not in the heat of the moment?
OK, things I am thinking of doing immediately: 1. Asking her to sleep somewhere other than the marital bed. From Sandi's thread, I can see I should have done this right away, and that by now it's lost much of it's impact. I think it's the right thing to do anyway. 2. Not joining her this weekend with the kids at her parents' lake house. I desperately want to get away and have a good time, but I need to do that through GAL, not through family activities from which she is intent on excising me.
I will tell her these tonight. (I am trying hard not to append "If I can" to my mental statement.
I am generally not a big fan of what I call "grand pronouncements," but I don't really see any way you can accomplish #1 without just flat-out telling her. As for #2, you should try to come up with some genuine alternate plans that conflict with it, and then just tell her you have a conflict (and stay mysterious about it).
If pressed on #1 (like, "Why are you just deciding this now?") just say "Well I've done a lot of thinking, and I have decided that this would be best."
If pressed on #2, say "I really do have other plans that conflict, but really -- going forward, if you think about it -- considering where we are right now I decided it would best for me to begin to live my own life. I realize now that there are lot of things I put on hold that no matter WHAT happens with us, I want to rectify." (or something similar).
I would also strongly suggest you start to become more clear and succinct in your communication with her, as in "as long as you're still in inappropriate contact with another man, we are no longer a couple" or even "End your affair and we can talk about it -- I think you'll find me ready and willing to work on any and all issues, including my own contributions to our marital problems, but I will not discuss it as long as you're still in contact with him."
I know you should have done this back in February, but there's no reason why you can't simply say "I've changed my mind, and I have decided that this is what works best for me."
Do NOT be a d*ck about any of this ^^^. Don't even be cold. Talk to her like you would talk to a good neighbor from down the street. It's more of an attitude of "Hey, this isn't what I wanted but I realize now that I'll be okay no matter what happens." Make sense?
My my personal archives, as it reminded me of your sitch, MN:
A Wayward can “Smell your Fear”
It is our demeanor, and day-to-day attitude, moreso than our words or even our actions (if they're transparent and seen to merely be "tactics"), that say "I've moved on."
At least that's been my observation. Marital and relationship forums are filled with all kinds of great betrayed spouses' SPEECHES, who are then perplexed as to why their cheating spouses aren't taking their grand pronouncements seriously. It's because a wayward spouse can SMELL the fear, and they know when you're still there for them, hopelessly attached, and when you've truly moved on.
For some, that comes when you date (I'm not advocating that).
For others, that comes when you serve them with divorce papers, or even just propose a formal separation.
For others, even those things don't work, if they can tell that you REALLY don't mean it.
