"I have simply maintained that I think our relationship can work, and that we have a responsibility to at least try for our children's sake.
I have been so relieved to be living with an adult human being again, but I know that what she thinks about my emotional state is a lie."
Welcome MN. I hesitate to post because Sandi's post speaks for itself, and Starsky covered the application. I just wanted to point out the two statements that caught my eye. I agree with both of them, as long as you express your desire to work things out you are double whammied. One, it allows her to cake eat. Two, she feels you are dismissive of her feelings and decision.
Best is to simply accept the D and start rebuilding your life emotionally. Physically, you can let her do the work, but show no signs that it bothers you. Like "meh, whatever, if you want to separate the phone bill that's fine, needs to happen, go ahead."
Just remember this can't be a 'strategy'. She will know when you are really detached and moving on, versus trying to manipulate her. It will show in your reactions, your body language. So while you can't accept the D and detach overnight, it should be your NUMBER ONE goal. She needs to pick up that you are a strong man that won't settle for a M with someone that doesn't appreciate him and will betray him, so while you're not throwing her out, you're not interested in an R with someone like that. If you're not there you will suffer and sabotage yourself until you are, time to get off the ride.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Here's what I have been doing more specifically: GAL: Going out every second Thursday after work with work friends, calling and talking to family more, engaging my creativity regularly (music, drawing). I don't have a lot of friends (especially not with kids), and my family all live very far away, so I have difficulty getting out and doing things.
Sorry but You CAN do a lot more GAL than this^^. And you must. You need to meet new people who don't all know your situation so you'll 1) obsess less, which helps you to 2) detach from what your wife is feeling/thinking or doing. and
3) you will become a happier, more contented man, with more interests, which makes YOU MORE Interesting...and let's face it, even though the goal of GAL is NOT to get your spouse back so much as to get yourself back, it's absolutely going to make you more attractive & interesting to them.
Sort of a paradox, I know. You just cannot detach without GAL.
I have been working out very regularly. I am looking better than ever before IMO. ^^^Nice!! Keep it up!
I have dropped several unhealthy habits (drinking pop particularly) and have been monitoring my health more closely (getting a physical, monitoring blood pressure to keep ahead of a latent kidney condition).
Other things of focus: I have tried to dedicate more effort to better raising our children. Especially D4 who is well, 4 years old, and can be emotional and headstrong. I got some reference books and went through them with my W, but have not pursued it regularly. "have not pursued what regularly" means what? I have a mantra about dads with wives who are heading out the door of the marriage.
"NO woman is unmoved by the loving interaction between her offspring & their dad." For many of us it's a turn on. Some wives stay married because their spouses are "good fathers."
So, Become the best dad you can become, b/c you should do that anyhow...
and let the kids tell her of what you do, so no need to be "in front" of w while doing it or making sure she knows. That will come off as a tactic, not an authentic change or improvement.
You want your wife to second guess her decision to leave the marriage.
She has negative images of you which she's using to justify that.
Your job now is to counter those negatives with positives.
You want her "Data" about you to be the new improved you, so that she realizes her negative data is inaccurate or out of date.
So if one complaint of hers was that you are "always late", you become MR PUNCTUAL and arrive on time for everything, or early.
Make sense?
What would her complaints about you or the marriage be, IF SHE were here now?
Are any of them valid, which you'd like to work on?
I have been trying to take charge on things in my life and around the house: Soon after my W "made her decision", I planned and executed a large home improvement project (where she had criticized me for being unable to start and finish projects). So the project is complete? How'd it go? And even if she said nothing, do not assume it meant nothing. It's just that right now, you're the last person to whom she'd admit to having doubts.
I have been seeing IC to try and address my approval seeking and the difficulty I have in initiating new things for the better.
Sounds like good work. Keep it up. It does get better.
If you become the best "LostMN" you can become, then regardless of what your w chooses to do, you will truly be better off.
ALL of your relationships will improve as you become a happier more loving man.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
On a side note, I think that I need a new IC. When I went to him originally to work on myself and the things I think are getting in the way of my relationship, he said he didn't want me to start working on all those things when they could be not the source of the problem in my M. I said OK, and we talked mostly about my wife and what I think is going on and we spent two sessions where he basically coached me on how to talk my wife into coming in individually. She went in and just got more angry as a result.
Now that that's out of the way, he seems to be saying, "OK, we can work on your approval seeking behaviors if you want" when I feel like we should have been doing that from the beginning. He's even got DB sitting there on his bookshelf, but I feel like he must not think very much of it.
I've spent a fair amount of time in the past trying to find an IC who can be solution-focused and ready to work on me, but I've been having no luck so far. Suggestions on the search?
You can SAY you want to be "more solution based" and keep saying it when the topic veers off toward your childhood, etc. Childhood traumas and unresolved issues are totally worth exploring but at the moment, you don't have time for psycho analysis. You need to be doing more of what helps your m and less of what hurts it.
Not easy but also, not complicated.
Was his coaching about how to speak to your wife helpful at all, other than getting her to see him?
That might be a way for him to help you, if nothing else, while you seek out another counselor whom you tell, you want solution based.
My mc was good and I told him about Div Busting. He read it and felt it was in alignment with a lot of his counseling which was mostly true.
But for ME, the DB coach I had was a Godsend. Exactly what and who I needed.
I ended up having about 15 sessions with her in all. Thank God.
(you know what's more expensive than DB coaching?
- Divorce).
Oh, and if you can, go to Retrovaille, which is for marriages in crisis, like when one has a foot out the door. You don't have to be religious to go (my h isn't atm, and it worried me. But no one preached to us). It was very helpful. They also have a follow up program that helps you stay on track after the "jump start" weekend.
Good luck
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
"I have simply maintained that I think our relationship can work, and that we have a responsibility to at least try for our children's sake.
I have been so relieved to be living with an adult human being again, but I know that what she thinks about my emotional state is a lie."
Welcome MN. I hesitate to post because Sandi's post speaks for itself, and Starsky covered the application. I just wanted to point out the two statements that caught my eye. I agree with both of them, as long as you express your desire to work things out you are double whammied. One, it allows her to cake eat. Two, she feels you are dismissive of her feelings and decision.
Best is to simply accept the D and start rebuilding your life emotionally. Physically, you can let her do the work, but show no signs that it bothers you. Like "meh, whatever, if you want to separate the phone bill that's fine, needs to happen, go ahead."
Just remember this can't be a 'strategy'. She will know when you are really detached and moving on, versus trying to manipulate her. It will show in your reactions, your body language. So while you can't accept the D and detach overnight, it should be your NUMBER ONE goal. She needs to pick up that you are a strong man that won't settle for a M with someone that doesn't appreciate him and will betray him, so while you're not throwing her out, you're not interested in an R with someone like that. If you're not there you will suffer and sabotage yourself until you are, time to get off the ride.
Good ^^^stuff.
Here is what my reaction to your statements might be if I were in your w's shoes:
As for the "maintain that our relationship can work" = "w, you are wrong"
and "we have an obligation go at least try" =
"Do more of the same, which isn't enough for you, but so what?"
And "for the sake of the children" = "b/c you're selfish and any decent mother would care more about them, than about her 'needs'."
She loves the kids. But now she's thinking that she is so unhappy, that they'd be "better off with a happy mother" and there's probably a lot of truth in that. Especially given her recent miserable behaviors.
But you do need to stop "arguing" about how happy she "Should" be or that it's not really very important in the grand scheme of things b/c of those
"obligations to the children" (YAWN)
My question is, where is your passion?
Find some, explore them, and enjoy them.
Oh and not that it matters or anything, but having a strong passionate h is incredibly important to most women.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
"I have simply maintained that I think our relationship can work, and that we have a responsibility to at least try for our children's sake.
I have been so relieved to be living with an adult human being again, but I know that what she thinks about my emotional state is a lie."
Welcome MN. I hesitate to post because Sandi's post speaks for itself, and Starsky covered the application. I just wanted to point out the two statements that caught my eye. I agree with both of them, as long as you express your desire to work things out you are double whammied. One, it allows her to cake eat. Two, she feels you are dismissive of her feelings and decision.
Best is to simply accept the D and start rebuilding your life emotionally. Physically, you can let her do the work, but show no signs that it bothers you. Like "meh, whatever, if you want to separate the phone bill that's fine, needs to happen, go ahead."
Just remember this can't be a 'strategy'. She will know when you are really detached and moving on, versus trying to manipulate her. It will show in your reactions, your body language. So while you can't accept the D and detach overnight, it should be your NUMBER ONE goal. She needs to pick up that you are a strong man that won't settle for a M with someone that doesn't appreciate him and will betray him, so while you're not throwing her out, you're not interested in an R with someone like that. If you're not there you will suffer and sabotage yourself until you are, time to get off the ride.
Thank you for posting, Zues. I had a long post all typed up here about "accepting the D." But now that I reflect on it, and re-read what sandi posted, I think I have an inkling of what you are saying. I need to evaluate, but right now I'm still a bit conflicted.
M30 W32 T7 M5 Kids: D4 S1 BD 10/06/14 Took off her ring Still living together
Here's what I have been doing more specifically: GAL: Going out every second Thursday after work with work friends, calling and talking to family more, engaging my creativity regularly (music, drawing). I don't have a lot of friends (especially not with kids), and my family all live very far away, so I have difficulty getting out and doing things.
Sorry but You CAN do a lot more GAL than this^^. And you must. You need to meet new people who don't all know your situation so you'll 1) obsess less, which helps you to 2) detach from what your wife is feeling/thinking or doing. and
3) you will become a happier, more contented man, with more interests, which makes YOU MORE Interesting...and let's face it, even though the goal of GAL is NOT to get your spouse back so much as to get yourself back, it's absolutely going to make you more attractive & interesting to them.
Sort of a paradox, I know. You just cannot detach without GAL.
I have been working out very regularly. I am looking better than ever before IMO. ^^^Nice!! Keep it up!
I have dropped several unhealthy habits (drinking pop particularly) and have been monitoring my health more closely (getting a physical, monitoring blood pressure to keep ahead of a latent kidney condition).
Other things of focus: I have tried to dedicate more effort to better raising our children. Especially D4 who is well, 4 years old, and can be emotional and headstrong. I got some reference books and went through them with my W, but have not pursued it regularly. "have not pursued what regularly" means what? I have a mantra about dads with wives who are heading out the door of the marriage.
"NO woman is unmoved by the loving interaction between her offspring & their dad." For many of us it's a turn on. Some wives stay married because their spouses are "good fathers."
So, Become the best dad you can become, b/c you should do that anyhow...
and let the kids tell her of what you do, so no need to be "in front" of w while doing it or making sure she knows. That will come off as a tactic, not an authentic change or improvement.
You want your wife to second guess her decision to leave the marriage.
She has negative images of you which she's using to justify that.
Your job now is to counter those negatives with positives.
You want her "Data" about you to be the new improved you, so that she realizes her negative data is inaccurate or out of date.
So if one complaint of hers was that you are "always late", you become MR PUNCTUAL and arrive on time for everything, or early.
Make sense?
What would her complaints about you or the marriage be, IF SHE were here now?
Are any of them valid, which you'd like to work on?
I have been trying to take charge on things in my life and around the house: Soon after my W "made her decision", I planned and executed a large home improvement project (where she had criticized me for being unable to start and finish projects). So the project is complete? How'd it go? And even if she said nothing, do not assume it meant nothing. It's just that right now, you're the last person to whom she'd admit to having doubts.
I have been seeing IC to try and address my approval seeking and the difficulty I have in initiating new things for the better. Sounds like good work. Keep it up. It does get better.
If you become the best "LostMN" you can become, then regardless of what your w chooses to do, you will truly be better off.
ALL of your relationships will improve as you become a happier more loving man.
((( )))
OK, in order: RE: GAL GAL remains tough for me. I feel like I don't know how people get to know new people and do things. I know it's not reality, but I have a huge mental obstacle erected that reads "MEETING PEOPLE". OK, find clubs for your interests, find activities for your kids, etc. I get that, but the anxiety persists anyway. I do appreciate the input, I know it's an important part of detaching and I know once every other week is pretty measly for developing one's emotional well-being.
Re: kids "Have not been pursuing [child-rearing topics] regularly" means that I have read several books (particularly "Positive Discipline" by Jane Nelsen), I try to act on them daily but that some days I fail. I have engaged my W with it, but while she seems to see the necessity of it, she does not want to work particularly hard with me on it. I wanted to really get into the discipline in particular because I and my W have been getting angry at our D4 more often. In part because of this emotional mess, but in part because she can just be trying. I will continue to work on that, and see where I can really make strides in it, even without my W working on it with me.
RE: complaints to work on I am trying to clear my mind of the resentment and anger and find more of her legitimate complaints that I can meaningfully work on for myself, but I'm sure most here know how hard that is.
RE: Home projects The vast "home improvement project of 2014" is complete. We had water in the basement last year, then had a contractor install a water-proofing system which entailed ripping out 3/4 of the basement walls and carpet and a shower. I put everything back together (some through contractors, some by myself) and additionally put new insulation in the entire garage (since it is under bedrooms). I am proud of the work I did, and I'm sure my W appreciates it in some sense, but I think that me not finishing projects was a little more of a drummed-up checklist item on "why to leave this marriage" than an honest complaint. I had some that I didn't complete in a timely fashion, and others that she wanted to do but I hadn't got to yet, but there were many more that were completed and are looking good.
M30 W32 T7 M5 Kids: D4 S1 BD 10/06/14 Took off her ring Still living together
A quick THANK YOU to everyone for posting. This is exactly the kind of feedback I came here seeking. While it [censored] that my S1 is home sick today, the fact that he naps away most of the day when he's sick has allowed me to lay down a ridiculous truckload of text in a day.
M30 W32 T7 M5 Kids: D4 S1 BD 10/06/14 Took off her ring Still living together
Yes, she knows that I know. I brought it to her when it first started and I happened upon it by looking at a preview of a text message on her phone. I was apologetic about spying. She was fairly unapologetic.
I have since looked through phone records (more times than I like to admit to) to see if it is still ongoing. I know I need to stop this.
I wasn't calling you on the "snooping" -- I happen to be very pro-intel (for a lot of reasons). I was much more interested in the (unfortunately) VERY powerful dynamic of "She's having an affair, you know, and she KNOWS that you know," and yet your actions might be saying you're okay with it even while your words say otherwise.
In my opinion, this is THE worst position to be in, especially for a betrayed husband. Because it's emasculating for YOU, and it kills attraction for HER when you don't immediately lay out -- and enforce -- strong boundaries.
Yes, she knows that I know. I brought it to her when it first started and I happened upon it by looking at a preview of a text message on her phone. I was apologetic about spying. She was fairly unapologetic.
Interesting. Just what did the text message say? I find it interesting that you felt the need to apologize for spying, rather than focusing on her inappropriate behavior.
Did you ever -- and I'm talking way back in February, within a day or two of finding out -- just flat-out say to her "I will not live in an open marriage?" What boundaries, if any, DID you discuss? Or has it just been the don't-ask/don't-tell 500-lb. gorilla in the room for three months?
