Thank you Sandi, Matt. Sandi - I think you particularly hit it on the head. The primary problems between us were with intimacy and sex (It is pretty obvious, now that I look at it.) In fact, she brought those to me before she started telling me how unhappy she was. I did not work as diligently as I should have on these things: making more time to ourselves, better approaches to initiating intimacy, more attention to her pleasure during sex. For sure, I dropped the ball on that. That still eats at me nearly daily. I feel like I have owned my responsibility for my part in this, but now there is very little I can do here directly.
I hear strongly the advice to pull back and be more aloof. I have even seen it sometimes work. I guess my main problem now is just to know what to say when I talk to her. Because I know she'll want to talk about (as she terms it) "stuff". She even said she wants to talk last night, but it was too late in the evening by then. What do I say when she says, "OK, what's next?"
M30 W32 T7 M5 Kids: D4 S1 BD 10/06/14 Took off her ring Still living together
You say "I don't know. I have a lot of thinking to do, and we both have some pretty big decisions to make. Right now I'm just working on me, and being the kind of man I want to be regardless."
If you want something even stronger, you can add "I realize this isn't working for me either" statement to the above.
Yes, it's scary -- but it's necessary. Sandi has given you some GOLDEN insight into the wayward woman's mind, and you'd be wise to follow her advice. MN you sound like a classic fixer/pleaser/"Mr. Nice Guy" like me, and we have to REALLY work at detaching and not jumping in and trying to fix things! But it's imperative at this stage. Before your wife can feel in love with you again, she has to learn to RESPECT you again, so working on simply re-building attraction and respect should be your starting point. Relationship fixing can -- hopefully -- come later, if she decides to end her affair and return to the marriage.
Another relevant piece of information: I know there is an EA going on (text messaging at least since February) but I don't know who and though I don't think it has progressed to a PA, I can't rule it out..
Another relevant piece of information: I know there is an EA going on (text messaging at least since February) but I don't know who and though I don't think it has progressed to a PA, I can't rule it out..
Does your wife know that you know this, MN?
Also, if you're looking through phone records or even her phone. STOP. I had to be corrected too. Snooping gets you nowhere except in trouble.
As FOGG said to me, "If you see something good you gain expectations, if you see something bad it hurts you. Many times what we see doesn't even represent the whole story, and we are biased in our views of seeing what we want to see. "
M30 W30 Married: 1 year Together: 4 years No kids 3 Dogs
Another relevant piece of information: I know there is an EA going on (text messaging at least since February) but I don't know who and though I don't think it has progressed to a PA, I can't rule it out..
Does your wife know that you know this, MN?
Yes, she knows that I know. I brought it to her when it first started and I happened upon it by looking at a preview of a text message on her phone. I was apologetic about spying. She was fairly unapologetic.
I have since looked through phone records (more times than I like to admit to) to see if it is still ongoing. I know I need to stop this. I keep allowing myself to check, regardless. Thank you for calling me on it. Make it visible and it becomes hard to deny whether it's a problem.
I was engaging in other spying (I have never snooped around on her phone or her email, however), but all the rest of it has stopped. I see how utterly unhelpful all of it has been to my situation.
M30 W32 T7 M5 Kids: D4 S1 BD 10/06/14 Took off her ring Still living together
On a side note, I think that I need a new IC. When I went to him originally to work on myself and the things I think are getting in the way of my relationship, he said he didn't want me to start working on all those things when they could be not the source of the problem in my M. I said OK, and we talked mostly about my wife and what I think is going on and we spent two sessions where he basically coached me on how to talk my wife into coming in individually. She went in and just got more angry as a result.
Now that that's out of the way, he seems to be saying, "OK, we can work on your approval seeking behaviors if you want" when I feel like we should have been doing that from the beginning. He's even got DB sitting there on his bookshelf, but I feel like he must not think very much of it.
I've spent a fair amount of time in the past trying to find an IC who can be solution-focused and ready to work on me, but I've been having no luck so far. Suggestions on the search?
M30 W32 T7 M5 Kids: D4 S1 BD 10/06/14 Took off her ring Still living together
Thanks for the quick responses, all. I have gone through most of the standard rules and information before. Thank you for the reminder.
Matt - to me "off and on" meant that some times I was sure that DB and DR principles (especially detaching, not being drawn into relationship talks) were exactly what I needed to be doing in my situation. Other times, I was pursuing other methods of trying to find my way out of my situation. For instance, I read "The Five Love Languages" and then promptly tried to engage my W with what I perceived to be her love language (gift giving). This proved to be a mistake, since she was not receptive to it.
Pursuit has been a strong magnet for me. Every time I try to back off of it, I read some new "relationship improvement" technique and keep thinking "I haven't tried that yet!" while not stepping back to evaluate how it will bring me closer to my goals. That's mainly where my "off and on" statement comes from. I know I need to not pursue, but I find it hard.
Sorry you are here but ti's the best place to be for a lousy reason.
You will need to make a choice about which approach to take with this situation -- b/c mixing the approaches up, tends to negate the value of either. Make sense?
More later....keep on keeping on!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Yes, she knows that I know. I brought it to her when it first started and I happened upon it by looking at a preview of a text message on her phone. I was apologetic about spying. She was fairly unapologetic.
I have since looked through phone records (more times than I like to admit to) to see if it is still ongoing. I know I need to stop this. I keep allowing myself to check, regardless. Thank you for calling me on it. Make it visible and it becomes hard to deny whether it's a problem.
I was engaging in other spying (I have never snooped around on her phone or her email, however), but all the rest of it has stopped. I see how utterly unhelpful all of it has been to my situation.
When you can walk by her phone without thinking about it, look at the phone bill without analyzing it, see her on her phone and not wonder who she's talking to, it will make you feel so much better and stronger.
I was really bad about looking through her phone once I suspected an A. W would leave it in the bathroom in the morning and I'd be in there with it all alone with all the time in the world to look through it. And I did. Not once did it make me feel better.
Now, I look at it in the morning and just smile. Because I know no matter what is on that phone, I'm going to be alright.
Anyway, it is really hard, but when you can turn off that need to look, everything gets better. It did in my case at least.
Good luck.
M30 W30 Married: 1 year Together: 4 years No kids 3 Dogs
Sorry you are here but ti's the best place to be for a lousy reason.
You will need to make a choice about which approach to take with this situation -- b/c mixing the approaches up, tends to negate the value of either. Make sense?
More later....keep on keeping on!
Yes, thank you for this. I have been reading like a fiend on relationship-building, but of course most of it is focused on a point probably two years ago in my M. So, realizing that, I have stopped trying other exercises and approaches that are not directly relevant to the situation in which I find myself. -Edit- And outside of DB/DR, there are not many that are focused on this point in a relationship. So that's my go to for now, and that's why I'm here on the forums at last.
Last edited by LostMN; 05/18/1507:04 PM.
M30 W32 T7 M5 Kids: D4 S1 BD 10/06/14 Took off her ring Still living together
There are so many experienced veteran's here who know what they are doing. Listen to them! Dont snoop and detach. Detaching is hard because it doesnt seem natural, but you need to start doing things different, because what you were doing before wasnt working so detach and do a 180. Read the validation thread. It will help when you talk to W. Good luck and you have great company!
Nick
Me-35 W-34 Married 6/2011 T-6 years S-2 BD-3/22/2015
