mlc rut

[25yearsmlc]

PS

Getting back to basics in DB.

What are Your 180s?

What new Positive behaviors are you using to

Counter his negative images/justifications for periodically wanting out of the marriage?

(Example of a 180 that counters his negative, would be If he complained you were "always late"

then you'd become MRS PUNCTUAL and arrive on time OR early for everything).

You want him to realize his "data" about you is not real, or is outdated. You are not the woman he sometimes vilifies.

You want him to second guess his lack of commitment to the marriage.

But you can only do that by becoming the better choice.

What are your short term goals?

And of course, as I posted above, how about those GAL?

By putting the focus on yourself and committing to it, I promise you that your life will improve at a much faster rate than it can by staring at him & "Observing".

Spend less time "REACTING" and all of your time proactively living your life well.

Your son is watching you more than you realize. You have to show him, by modeling it, that he is in charge of his own happiness.

Dig deep b/c the real journey in life is an inward one. Decide the traits YOU want to work on and the flaws you don't want to keep, and become the best Pbetra you can.

That way, regardless of your h's journey, you will be just fine.

Make sense?

[BrightFuture]

25yearsmlc, this is a lot of GAL! I don’t know if I have this much energy as you did. It works for some people, I guess.

And this is always a downer for LBS:

Btw, I don't think labeling it "MLC" is all that helpful b/c in some cases it means the LBSer sticks around with the misguided notion that MLCers always return to the marriages. But They usually do not return.

Why even give any advice on any DB and 180? Just stick with the GAL and move on activities. I never undertook these posts. They tell you that there is very little chance of R, and the chances of MLCer to return to the M are very slim, but at the same time advice you taking steps to DB and this: “You want him to second guess his lack of commitment to the marriage.” BUT!!! “They usually do not return”!

[AJM]

25 can answer herself, but I know why I did.

Why even give any advice on any DB and 180? Just stick with the GAL and move on activities. I never undertook these posts. They tell you that there is very little chance of R, and the chances of MLCer to return to the M are very slim, but at the same time advice you taking steps to DB and this: “You want him to second guess his lack of commitment to the marriage.” BUT!!! “They usually do not return”!

Because it's not all about the person that leaves. And because if there is going to be a chance, that's a way to find out.

MLC is a hotly contested term in the psych world. Some buy into it and others don't believe it exists. Others, say that crisis is what happens during a mid-life transition. i.e. transitions can be tumultuous or they can be smooth. If the former, then the person often creates a "crisis" through their actions.

Another way to look at it is they are becoming (wholly) human during this transition. And it isn't always pretty.

I dunno about you, but GAL and DB together worked very well for me. Did I restore my marriage? Nope. But it wasn't mine to lose nor save. Did I save me? Abso-friggin-lutely.

25's advice is sound. The results are not always what is hoped for initially, but I've yet to see them be "bad". I've often seen the results be "good" for both parties, even mine. I don't talk to my ex and she doesn't talk to me, but I've seen where DB made a difference in my life, previous marriage, my ex, and in others.

AJ

[25yearsmlc]

My point about labeling the WAS versus the MLCer is --

what's the point?

OUR COURSE OF ACTION IS THE SAME...

Sure, there could be value in knowing what to expect, which is that 'everyone is different", but I fear that some of the folks who label their spouse as "MLCer"

are making 2 mistakes that will cost them dearly. Pbetra, please don't be offended, okay? But you've been here a year so let's give this a whirl.

1) they are taking the focus OFF of themselves and whatever role they played in the demise of their marriage; losing out on the one side of this whole ordeal that is actually positive, which is OUR self growth;

(and btw, I have rarely seen even a true "MLCer" spin out of control when they'd been truly happy and content in the marriage, before)

and

2) the LBSer who keeps labeling their spouse, ends up wasting time waiting to see "what happens next" instead of GAL, doing 180s and essentially they ignore the whole concept behind DBing

which is that since we are all we control, we have to take charge of OUR lives and live them well.

Sitting around staring at the MLCer and "diagnosing" them ---instead of working on our own lives,

under the misguided notion that if we do nothing, THEN they might come home,

is a waste of our precious time. Reading this thread made me feel that Pbetra had taken pieces of DBing, the MLC part and then slapped the label on her h

not digging deep to own her own part yet sometimes vaguely saying she was 'taking all the blame" (while not actually working on those traits, or at least if she was, we don't know b/c they are not mentioned, specifically)

AND

I've seen other posters around, who make me worry that there's a whole lot of "isn't my MLC Wife just crazy??" going on when there could be a lot more of

Here's what I'm going to do to improve the life of my children and ME".

Oh -- as to the GAL in Alaska, remember that aside from H's issues, and wanting to stay forever or go back there,

I was dealing with a lot of cold darkness (literally, I mean). So I HAD to do things to keep from surrendering to it. I noticed several other wives sort of disappearing into their homes til spring returned (or going back home to the lower 48)

or just drinking like crazy til the sun came back (I always thought of that as "Plan B")

But yes, it was by far - the hardest I've ever worked, to just be alright. Fortunately for me it got better and all the effort paid off.

Hope this helps.

[BrightFuture]

AJ, I’m not saying that GAL is bad. I think it just different for some people. When do too much GAL, I actually feel worse. I’m drained out of energy. I have the personality that benefits from time alone. I recharge when I’m alone. Plus, it helps me to work on myself, dig into my issues. I feel like too much GAL is actually similar to MLCer behavior to just distract from internal work. If it makes sense… Plus, in my situation, I feel like no matter how much GAL I do, I’m still stuck. Sometime I wonder how much more I need to do to finally feel good.

25yearsmlc, thanks for clarifying some of the points. I get it. Yes, GAL is needed to survive and be alright. And I totally see how hard it would be in Alaska in the winter time. This I can completely understand. I would not feel good in that kind of environment. I need the sun and day light.
I just want to comment on this:

(and btw, I have rarely seen even a true "MLCer" spin out of control when they'd been truly happy and content in the marriage, before)

Was I a perfect wife? No. I had my issues. I worked on these issue. I’m still working on some of them. I admit my mistakes. However, when it comes to H’s unhappiness in the marriage, I just cannot take the blame. According to him, the main issue was us arguing about one thing. H thought that he was entitled to have very close relationship with women, especially single women. He could exchange inappropriate texts and pictures, he could flirt, he could invite them to the events with him, while ignoring me. Once in while I would caught him on this and confront him. So, he definitely was not happy with this kind of relationship, because he thought that he should be allowed to do what he wanted and I should just go along with it and keep my cool.

So, yes, he was unhappy, and he left… to search for a perfect woman who would be like “one of the boys”, with benefits, and also be reliable and loyal. He is still searching for this wonder woman…

pbetra, sorry for the high jack. You have great advice from the vets here. Don’t get me wrong. I believe in GAL and putting focus on yourself.

[pbetra]

Hi there,
I was just having my coffee & thought that I would check in ... didn't expect this!
(a few responses since I posted ... )

Firstly, it will take too much time to reply now as I have meditation, an errand & my project - a BUSY day today, so will do so sometime tomorrow.

Secondly, 25yrsmlc although I have literally (!!) skimmed through these replies, I am NOT offended. In many instances you pretty much hit the nail on the head! I have not always been able to 'do', or think clearly so I was not even effective to myself (this has been evident in other (!) areas of my life as well, & I did have concerns at one time - sadly it was 1 more thing for me to worry about in addition to all that was going on).

Lastly, I appreciate ALL the feedback incl. BF & AJ! Having this 'conversation' allows me to see someone else's 'take' on my sitch. When one is 'drenched' in an emotional whirlwind for whatever reason, it's hard to 'see' properly. Vision is not objective or logical, often marred by a brain in distress.

When I get advice from forum members, I get an external view of things. Something I can only benefit from (no matter what the opinion of each!)
Great food for thought! THANK YOU all !! 'e-talk' tomorrow, p.

[AJM]

Quick comment -

When do too much GAL, I actually feel worse. I’m drained out of energy. I have the personality that benefits from time alone. I recharge when I’m alone. Plus, it helps me to work on myself, dig into my issues.

I think you misunderstand what GAL means then, m'dear. At least to me, it means doing what recharges you. What it is that makes you feel alive. The fun things you've wanted to do.

For me, an extrovert at heart, it usually means being in a crowd for several hours. In the thick of things. Sometimes, it means being alone and getting some things accomplished that I've neglected.

For you, it may mean spending more time alone. But only if that's what works for you and helps you recharge. In many cases, we need a balance of both.

To me the point is to live your life as you WANT to live it. And in some cases, we don't know what that life would look like without our long term partner in the picture. So we often encourage people to try things they haven't done before (within reason) and "explore" the life they may not have even considered existed beyond their previous relationship.

AJ

[25yearsmlc]

AJ, I’m not saying that GAL is bad. I think it just different for some people. When do too much GAL, I actually feel worse. I’m drained out of energy. I have the personality that benefits from time alone. I recharge when I’m alone.

By definition and using the term correctly, "GAL" by is Not doing "too much". GAL is a positive.

Some folks fear GAL, b/c they are stuck, and inertia is easy to embrace.

Some fear GAL b/c they convince themselves their WAS will then think they don't care anymore, b/c pleading and constantly seeking reassurance & being needy, feels intuitively like what is needed, but that is rarely the case.

And some argue against GAL b/c they just resist the concept that anything is truly going to help them, and or that anything is within their control.

Sometimes, that^^ is a symptom of other issues, and it's worth looking at more closely.

Plus, it helps me to work on myself, dig into my issues. I feel like too much GAL is actually similar to MLCer behavior to just distract from internal work. If it makes sense…

"GAL" stands for Getting A Life. Not hyperactively doing busy work or inviting more stress into our lives. I'm not sure if you are arguing about my particular GAL list b/c you feel it would be too much for you personally, which is fine, or if you think I"m challenging others to do what I did. I'm not.

The cold and dark fronts were a big part of why I did what I did, which I said.

It's a lot more GAL than I do now, b/c it was too much for me to keep doing forever.

And I live in a warm sunny place now and I enjoy the company of my h now, too. My need to GAL is lessened,

but I do make myself do more than I "feel like", on an ongoing basis - just b/c Its easy for me to get complacent.


Plus, in my situation, I feel like no matter how much GAL I do, I’m still stuck. Sometime I wonder how much more I need to do to finally feel good.


Dear Bright, hey,
Since I'm not familiar with your GAL or your story's thread, I can't address the point about your feeling stuck, except as I mention below.

I just listed my Alaskan things b/c a lot of people here say they are "too broke" or "too busy" to GAL and really, they're just stuck.

Being stuck can feel less terrifying than moving forward, which could be the root of their "stuckness".

I remind myself that if not changing had lead to tons of happiness for me and h, I'd have stayed stuck. But I was here in DB land, so I was in tremendous pain,

and I came to believe that the pain of Not changing - had to be LESS than the pain of remaining the same.

25yearsmlc, thanks for clarifying some of the points. I get it. Yes, GAL is needed to survive and be alright. And I totally see how hard it would be in Alaska in the winter time. This I can completely understand. I would not feel good in that kind of environment. I need the sun and day light.


Amen! It was not the cold (well, okay -55'F IS damn cold and weird, but you get my point) it was the lack of light.

I was battling a lot of fronts.
-Per psychology books and experience, Depression is usually isolating. So we have to combat that. (Hence my suggestion to those who only do solo actives as
"GAL" to meet new people.)

Paradoxically, we tend NOT to want to go out or "go do something," and we tend to resist meeting new people, when in fact it is just what we need.

I felt the urge to withdraw and "hibernate" in Alaska. Just wanted the 3 years there to pass. I wanted to "make stew" and have a fire, and watch a movie and go to bed, most nights. I could see why the average military wife gained 15lbs per year.

I had to overcome a lot of emotions, resistance & plain old inertia to do any GAL.

Plus the sheer logistics of going out in those temperatures and with whiteout conditions, just to get OUT and do something there - were huge.

...just walking in the woods was stressful b/c of the wildlife. I literally had to carry a gun, which was NEW to me. At first the novelty was exciting but as we heard true stories of bear attacks, not so fun.

So I relate to some of what you say, but you said yourself that you feel stuck. Living up in Alaska was the hardest place I've ever lived, by far. And so it was the hardest I had to work to just be alright...

I don't know what your GAL things are, but maybe I will see that on your thread.



I just want to comment on this:

(and btw, I have rarely seen even a true "MLCer" spin out of control when they'd been truly happy and content in the marriage, before)

Was I a perfect wife? No. I had my issues. I worked on these issue. I’m still working on some of them.


Let me be really clear. I did not make this^^ comment to "assign blame" --period.

I made it to keep our focus on the one and only person we control...OURSELVES.

My concern is If/when we decide the label "MLC" explains all of our spouses choices,

we will NOT grow or change nearly as much as we would have, had we dug deep, and 'bravely looked inward.

By labeling the "wacky MLCer" as such, sometimes it just glosses over our role and serves as a dismissive avoidance of self examination.

Dismissing all the WAS complaints as unreasonable, & all due to their "MLC"

means we will miss out on the chance to get the single upside out of this ordeal - which is the self actualization that only comes from a courageous journey into our behaviors and emotions.

Obiouvsly there are exceptions and no one here, least of all me, is making sweeping generalizations that apply to all. They don't.

Choose what helps and disregard the rest.


I admit my mistakes. However, when it comes to H’s unhappiness in the marriage, I just cannot take the blame.


You don't have to "take the blame" so much as figure out which of your behaviors are Not helping your marriage - and which were/are.

This is a solution based approach to marriage restoration, not a jury that issues a verdict or apportions out guilt.

According to him, the main issue was us arguing about one thing. H thought that he was entitled to have very close relationship with women, especially single women. He could exchange inappropriate texts and pictures, he could flirt, he could invite them to the events with him, while ignoring me. Once in while I would caught him on this and confront him. So, he definitely was not happy with this kind of relationship, because he thought that he should be allowed to do what he wanted and I should just go along with it and keep my cool.


This^^ is a pretty hilarious. description of your marriage. I do have to ask, what would HE say the issues were, if HE were here?

Actually Bright, if I have time maybe I can look to your situation on your thread - and then I can better address your comments.

So, yes, he was unhappy, and he left… to search for a perfect woman who would be like “one of the boys”, with benefits, and also be reliable and loyal. He is still searching for this wonder woman…

pbetra, sorry for the high jack. You have great advice from the vets here. Don’t get me wrong. I believe in GAL and putting focus on yourself.

Here's a tip that irks the heck of some folks here but if you read what I'm writing and NOT what you fear it implies,

you might find that you agree. Just ask and I'll elaborate if something is not clear.

Deal?

Okay, imo, the

best news a spouse can get when seeing a good marriage counselor is that they have some real issues to work on. Yes, that they own some or a lot of the problems within the marriage. I think that is great news and I mean that literally.

Because it means the spouse can do something to improve the situation. They are not powerless.

I think being "wrong" - is a whole lot better than being right, but powerless.

IF we have few or no real flaws to work on, and or feel we already did, that is just so tragic.

It means we are powerless to change anything, b/c we are already as good as it gets for us.

So when h and I go to get a tune up these days, even when we went to Retrovaille way back when I was in so much pain, I wanted to hear about what I Could do to improve our marriage.

Make sense?

[pbetra]

Hi 25yrsmlc,

thanks for taking the time to post - I will try to answer all your questions.

re hijacking BF - no worries (don't see it that way just related stuff from other people's sitch that comes up re: my own somehow)

A few questions I have are what are your ages? And are you able to financially support yourself without your h's income?

Am 50 years (like spouse) - am not as marketable as h. some admin work history but primarily homemaker.
personal savings practically used up, the reason why I am happy re assignment & trying with branding as project head is happy with my work so far.

Sounds as if his support has been so erratic, I have to ask you, what's the worst that could realistically happen if he leaves? And, or, if he stays and spends all the money?

I will save money if he leaves - he uses more than what he replaces. using his money, saving by using resources here. Resources I am controlling for me & others as this sitch is not stable.
He is VERY marketable, he will land on his feet somehow - with my age & 'homemaker' work history ???- not so much.

Also, I could not help but notice that despite your growth this past year, 90% of your focus remains on HIS mood and HIS behaviors.
How about not looking at those at all, for a day? And then make it a week? You can always "Check in" to see what he's up to after you do a LOT MORE GAL and you must

This is an excellent idea! I will start today. I have been *caught up way too much ...

We hammer the GAL ... You are NOT detached from him and you can't really detach, imo, without GAL

I know.
*The detach w/love has been tricky 4 me.
Am seeing how I can incorporate some of your GAL suggestions re my sitch more below, which is really quite an impressive list!!

Btw, I don't think labeling it "MLC" is all that helpful b/c in some cases it means the LBSer sticks around with the misguided notion that MLCers always return to the marriages. But They usually do not return.

I get your point re mlc label ... didn't even think of it really . It started with initial high impact sitch & grew habitual. Change is always happening even with us/h, a year has past but here I am still pinning the initial 'high impact-sitch label' after all this time. Have to be mindful moving forward - point taken![/quote]

=================================
* MUST DECLUTTER re improved GAL

I know that some entries have been crytic ...

Know something? will have 2 post this related information to above post soon. Just wanted to answer questions, (hope I did!)
Will reply > re 25yrsmlc 'ps' before I get into 'de cluttering!'
To b contd ...

[pbetra]

PS .. basics in DB.
What are Your 180s? ...
What new Positive behaviors are you using to
Counter his negative images/justifications for periodically wanting out of the marriage?

*I was more of a 'take charge in & out the home' person (non domestic), more aggressive/solution oriented. More proactive socially. More independent. Less 'homey' & associated with laundry etc
...

You want him to realize his "data" about you is not real, or is outdated. You are not the woman he sometimes vilifies. You want him to second guess his lack of commitment to the marriage.But you can only do that by becoming the better choice.
What are your short term goals?

Wanted income.
To lose weight (I did)

By putting the focus on yourself and committing to it, I promise you that your life will improve at a much faster rate than it can by staring at him & "Observing".
Spend less time "REACTING" and all of your time proactively living your life well.
Your son is watching you more than you realize. You have to show him, by modeling it, that he is in charge of his own happiness.
Dig deep b/c the real journey in life is an inward one. Decide the traits YOU want to work on and the flaws you don't want to keep, and become the best Pbetra you can.

Thank you thank you thank you

================

To expand re above without distracting from your questions (incl. but not limited to other goals - medium term, ongoing ..):

what changed:

- I lost weight 20 lbs
- Got assignment for 1st time since here (which I was elated about!!).
- Started saying/acting "no" to h (THIS ONE is the 'mother of all changes, the biggie - as I 'AM fear.'

I recall when i first started here, desperately trying to get information re 'confrontation' for fear of just that! It was my daring to tell him "leave" with his ultimatum that resulted in the 'switched behaviour'. I cried that day, but not regretful & certainly woudln't hav done otherwise. I [i]couldn't do that a year ago, couldn't deny him intimacy when needed
- Started playing with expressive arts
- Started meditation not long ago
- started my own book too 25yrsmlc - just too brain strained to get past a particulur point, so it's 'marinating'! Am loving the images I am producing.
- Spent more time trying to figure c. for new year re c.'s issues & resolved (!) so much! ta da! C.is doing better at school - grades, demeanor, participation! Teacher is happy "had to" speak w/me!
- Less depression so far
- A little more retention of information (i mentioed this in a not posted yet b/c i wanted to answer you)

Would like:
- Would like to brand enough to get a desent flow of work
- *To travel even if staycations, day trips. More GAL
- *Combat fatigue. Get more help so I can LIVE more, & survive less
- Continue working on fear issues - I don't 'feel' it most of the time which is what is sooooo misleading! I 'feel normal' relative to the amount of fear I carry.