What just happened? Kramer's journey continues

[Kramer]

I also want to share something with the group, which was unexpected and made me feel good inside.

As most of you know, my bio kids have long ago left the nest, and we were living with my wife's bio children and niece. Since the affair, all of her kids except her 17 year old son have been angry with her for her behavior. Her niece lives with me. I have remained in contact with my stepchildren, and have them over regularly for dinner. We were a family for 17 years, and I did not abandom them when their mother left me.

The kids (young adults) and I HAVE had friction over the past few years because of their behavior (drugs, defiance, and problems with authority). I tried to provide a stable and structured home life, but they were not happy with my authority (or so I thought).

During my recent talk with my wife, she told me that the kids have been arguing with her and blaming her for breaking the family up. One of the twins asked her if she even missed me, and one of them put up pictures of their mother and I all over the house. Point is, they actually did appreciate me, and are pushing their mother into getting back together with me.

This came as a huge surprise to me. Things sure work in mysterious ways.

[HeavyD]

Awww...See Kramer? The truth wins, integrity wins, discipline wins, we knew it all along.

What a great Man you are and have been through this crisis to your family.

[Zelda09]

Kramer, your self esteem and sense of worth and no bs - it is radiating out if these posts. Good on you.

[Kramer]

Zelda,

I appreciate the kind words, but I just don't agree with you. My self confidence and self worth have plummeted since this happened. I have always been a good person, but compromised my values and lost myself. I am simply trying to regain who I once was and be a good man. I may never get a chance to be a good husband, but it won't be for lack of trying.

[Zelda09]

Kramer, I think we all know what you're talking about.
My hair is as thin as it has ever been in my life, and I spent most of the month in the fetal position.
It just seems like you are drawing on a real strength under your hurt. Hugs.

[Bob723]

Nope, no pursuit. I didn't contact her all day. She sent a few superficial texts to me this evening and I waited about an hour to respond. She just texted me again to tell me that I suck at texting because I take so long to respond. That is by design. I don't want to seem TOO available, and want her to wonder what I'm up to. Hopefully that's a good strategy.

Hi Kramer,

One word for you -- Perfect!

Hang in there, you are doing the best you can, buddy.

Bob

[sandi2]

If she calls crying again, do I just let her cry? What do I say? How will I know that she is sincere?

I actually talked about this very thing in one of my threads, b/c it is not uncommon for the WW. I am going to say something here about validation, and I don't want to be misunderstood by anyone b/c I know Wonka has a thread about validation. I am a firm believer in a time for everything, and I think there are times the LBH is too quick to "validate" when he should STFU. It is fine to listen to what she has to say, but this was the time to keep quite and not assure her of anything. LBH'S want to jump in and not only over-validate to the point of a$$ kissing, but they want to also tell her again how he still is willing to work on the M. This is not the time for either one. This is the time that she could realize she is losing her H!! But the minute he starts with the validating, she fails to reach that threshold b/c he jumped in to soothe her feelings.

A lot of men do not know how to validate, and I think that may have inspired Wonka with the cheat sheet to help out. I am concerned that a lot of LBH'S still don't get it, and mess up by over-killing when they should just keep their lips sealed. Know what I mean?

She may or may not call again for more ego food, depending on how the A goes. Even if OM is through with her, it doesn't mean she is over him....plus she will have to go through withdrawals. If they work together, how successful will that be? But anyway, if you get another opportunity, you need to play hard to get. Only, don't just play it. If she ever reaches the point of wanting to get back together, it will be b/c she thinks you are slipping through her fingers. This is what I try to get you guys to see!

Instead of reassuring her of how interested you are in her pity party, you need to pull back and leave her with the impression she waited too long and is giving too little. She will realize she has to step up her game if she expects you to care that she is hurt over OM! I mean seriously, that is why she called, b/c she had been jilted.

So, let her cry and have her pity-party while you listen. If you are looking for some idea of what to say, how about Starsky's line? "Yes, this has been very difficult for everyone". That should be a truth dart aimed at her heart. Not to enter into the blame game or to have a relationship talk, or anything else. Another example would be to say, "There are no winners in this type of situation". " I wish I could believe what you are saying". Something along those lines. If she gets defensive, asks what you mean by that statement, tell her nothing. Do not explain yourself. remember, she called "you". At any point in her emotional spill she becomes angry or disrespectful, you tell her this is not the time to talk, while she's angry.

Don't misunderstand and think I am telling you to be icy cold, sound hateful or cruel, etc. Speak with gentleness (as long as she is not getting riled). This is not the time to preach, pay back time, or snide remarks.

The reason I say not to misunderstand is b/c I think you misunderstand the detaching concept. You think it is the same as ignoring her. Some men think it means to act cold or mad, or to be physically detached. Neither are correct. Detaching is a mental attitude. It is when your emotions about her do not rule your life. It is about having a life independently from her. You should not depend on M to identify who are as a person, or to take the place of everything and everyone else. It is about having the emotional ability to be her in her presence and not completely ignoring her, b/c it doesn't bother you. You don't get excited if she calls, or depressed if she doesn't call. You don't make decisions based on how those decisions will affect your wayward W's feelings (good or bad). It means you aren't worried about what she may think you mean by whatever you do. Go back and read the detaching link Cadet posts on newcomer's threads.

Once when I was trying to explain detachment, I used the word "indifference", but that's not a very good word to use. Think about the popular school football player and a girl, who has a wild crush on him, wants to get his undivided attention. Picture him standing around talking to his buddies when this girl walks up to group and tries to join in. If she says something directly to him, he looks at her and is polite with few as words as possible.......then immediately he turns his attention back to his buddies as though she had zero affect on him. Do you know how this affects her? As long as he keeps his cool, she will see it as a challenge. But if he starts following her around, she'll quickly lose interest, b/c he was too easy to wrap around her finger.

Have I answered your questions, or confused you more?

In every case I can remember at the moment, where the WW called out of blue and with the whole crying scene.......it was purely for her own selfish reasons. Even if she uses words like "sorry" and how she's "made a mess out of things", it does not mean she is remorseful. I have never seen it happen that way, or that easily. She has to suffer more loss and the remorse comes slowly. She has to go through a process. If you handle things correctly, you will not jump at every little incident from her. How will you know when she really means what she is saying? Her actions matches her words. In the meantime, you don't rush and don't push it. And, don't get flustered and worry that she may "reach out" to you and you push her away. Yes, I am expecting you to say that next.

[Kramer]

Sandi,

I agree with everything you have said. I believe that she may be sad and perhaps sorry, but definitely not remorseful at this point. I used the very phrases that you advocated and did not mention working on the relationship at all. I filled her in on what was happening with the kids and grandchildren, and was upbeat and positive. No snide answers, sad face, crying, or pleading. I did, however, stroke her ego and told her that I disagreed with OM assessment. I should not have done that.

I need to be more mysterious and unavailable, and really need to increase my GAL. This little bread crumb felt good, but you're right. It was simply to make herself feel better. Back to radio silence, GAL, and self pro cements. If she calls again, I will be more careful and not get sucked in.

[TenBook]

Hi Kramer,

I read the story you told Bob about your EX and your birthday. I don't feel so alone now.

Thanks for sharing. You never know who truly benefits from shared stories.

[Kramer]

Well, as predicted by sandi, the high from my recent contact with STBX has worn off, and I find myself sliding a bit further into depression and melancholy. Prior to our recent talk last week, I had done a decent job of GAL, going dark, and was making strides on detachment. I tried not to read into things, and kept our conversation light, upbeat, and positive and did not mention specifics regarding relationship. As I mentioned earlier, she expressed sorrow for what she did, and was certainly sad. However, she did not express remorse or mention anything about trying to repair our relationship. I realize that what happened was her feeling sad and guilty, and needing a shoulder to cry on. Nothing more than that.

Since that interaction last week, there have been a few texts (superficial) from her. I have not responded to them right away and she has mentioned (more than once) that I need to be better and more timely with my texts. When I do respond, I am pleasant and light hearted, and usually close by telling her to have a good day. Her last text was at 10 pm last night telling me that she worked in Psych all day, and one of her patients threatened her with a knife. She obviously was not hurt, and she never told me about it when it happened earlier in the day, so I simply acknowledged that it must have been scary for her. I did also mention that she could have called and I would have responded, but that was probably not a good thing to do.

Here's my dilemma. We all like to think that our sitches are unique, although they probably are not. In my case, the woman I have known for 20 years is one that will never admit fault or make the first move when she is wrong. She is headstrong and proud, and would rather fall on her sword than admit that she was wrong about something. I'm wondering now if she is waiting for me to pursue her and fight for her love. I know that sounds crazy based on the fact that she had an affair, left me, and filed for divorce. However, in her mind, I had grown distant, uncaring, and did not show her the love and respect that I should have in the last year.

Am I completely nuts here? Is there any validity at all to my thinking process? Or is this just me being manipulated by her?