Sorry to hear you dont feel your doing well. from an external perspective it looks like you are in all practical senses but i know full well thats not the same as feeling it.
I would give you a manly reassuring hug but i dont want things to get all awkward between us or make pink jealous
Can you explain what your L/C said in a little more detail please? did she say she cant help you at all any more was it more specific?
I'm off out for a bit now but i'll check in later
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
Hi Jim. L/C has been involved since Before W left and has had the opinion that there is no OM When W left I was convinced that W left to be with OM. over the last 6 months W has seemed very unhappy and my circle of friends have all voiced the opinion that W could not be involved with some lone else due to her behaviour. While L/C had convinced me that W was not with OM romantically she did concede that by now W could be W then asked to see L/C out of the blue. I told L/C and she was pleased because W knows that L/C would ask about OM W went to L/C and L/C is now more convinced than ever that W is not with OM in anything other than friendship and not even a close one. When I spoke with L/C 'I voiced my opinion that W was with OM and L/C then said that she couldn't help me because I wouldn't listen to her. She said I was better off seeing a counsellor who would listen to my opinion. L/C is convinced W Is Completely lost and needs me to be there for when she needs me L/C has also met my Ds and thinks I should stand because my family is repairable
Jim L/C is a fantastic lady and I'm not sure if her not seeing me anymore is a wake up call. I am fixated on OM and it has caused the end of my marriage I'm over the mental torture of them together and now I focus on how W lied to me and spends time with OM
W called today a started on about money and how she can't afford her car anymore and how she applied for a job cleaning but didn't get it. It's tougn to hear but I just validated and told her I had a meeting to go into It's very hard to hear someone you loved and cherished for 25 years crying down the phone about stuff like this.
I hope once the Solictors letter is delivered then W will stop calling and get on with her life.
Thanks to the interest Jim . Really appreciated. Rd ( my boys hug me every night before bed so a manly hug is always welcome BUT if their was a line Pink would be at the front !!!!!!!!)
RD, typing on my phone, which drives me nuts! Just wanted to wish you luck & give you a big lady hug ((((RD)))) and a few kisses xxxx (and don't tell Pink okay??)
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Thanks Toots As much as I apprecaite Jims hug you know yours are better.
My solicitor is a family friend and has acted for me for the last 20 years He is an expert in company and family law He was chairman of the family court board for a long time and has been through a divorce himself.
I'm not looking forward to W getting the letter but it is what it is.
Hi Sunny Thanks for your post While I always value your opinion I was working late so just had mash , some fish and green beans followed by a cup of tea made by D14 with a small slice of apple crumble
I'm going to ask a question and you are of course free to not answer it.
What if OM is just someone she knows who had somewhere she could crash and that now she is stuck there because she is afraid to come back but cant see an alternative or is afraid of being alone. That there really truthfully is (and hasnt been) and EA/PA or anything like it?
What if the whole key thing was OM knew she would be out and arranged a problem that he knew would interfere with your W's plans?
I went through a phase of torturing myself over what my W is doing and who she is with and how much happier her life would be without me. But so much of that is my own insecurities and jealousy talking with only limited facts - now i have the difference that i saw the evidence and my XW has since admitted to OM1 but i also realise now my views about the other OMs is only supported by circumstantial evidence at best.
some of the biggest issues in my marriage (at least in terms of my contribution to its downfall) were about my incessant and destructive rumination as i would mentally torture my self about my own inadequacies which then presented in negative ways.
So this is why i ask those what if questions, because what if the worst feelings you have are truly only in your head? how would you look at your W? how would you see your situation?
My XW doesnt lean on me in the slightest and when i read some of the other situations round here i'm glad of that because i cant imagine how hard that would be for my emotions to manage.
So despite how it might feel to you are doing well
By the way did your L/C ask you what you want from seeing her by any chance?
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
Hi Jim. Thanks for the questions. Last one first. L/C is all about living your life from you and not from insecurities or programs as she calls them. for example I have always struggled with jealousy and the need for someone to love me Over the last year 7 months L/C has helped me get this in to perspective
When I went to L/C it was to try to save my M. W also went because she wanted the same but once I found out about OM it came to a head and W left.
Jim re the part about OM , I'm torn and somedays I'm convinced she's not with him and others im convinced she is I hoe it's ok but I will just lost a few pros and cons and then I will answer the "what if "'question.
Pros.
W. Left W was driving OM to various hospitals for his mental health issues W smoke weed with OM and he stays overnight with her W confides some in OM W is friendly with his sister W does a lot of running around for OM chemist , doctors , lifts to work etc W. Spends time with OM
CONS
W appears to have no help with basic things like her car re simple things the ting mirrors etc hat any friend would help with W seems in a very very troubled state and turns to me non stop for simple things like telling me about her day or her family W is letting her appearance go. W has always been very smart W is reaching out to my L/C again and has L/C convinced OM is not romantic W has recently started to make contact with my mum W has posted very sad things on Facebook which all my friends have access to. I'm not on Facebook W has mentioned coming home in an oblique way W texts and calls me most days W tells me that she is much more unhappy now than before
Jim. Re the what if she's telling the truth sceniro. Then it would cjhange things because I do love her and I would love to have my family complete , however I also think that W made choices for herself and I have to respect those choices and can I ever trust what she says re OM
At the moment I have chosen a path and I will stick to it. W seems to be sticking to her path but it's very sad to see as she is a shell of her former self
I hope I answered all your questions Jim and I appreciate you taking the time to ask
Thank you for answering the questions. I'm going to carry on a little further if you dont mind.
I like the sound of your L/C by the way - if only because i know my own insecurities have dominated too much of my thinking and have caused too many problems in my life. My XW lays all of the problems in our M at the door of my insecurities.
OK so I started trying to type this post a while ago and its been rattling around as i'm having difficulty finding the right words to explain what i mean, so im just going to go for it and hope it makes sense.
When you look at your pros and cons list or anything else, you are taking a series of bits of information and forming a narrative - the tone of the narrative and the place it leads can vary significantly based on how you choose to interpret the bits of information, which bits you emphasise and how you mentally fill in the gaps.
By way of example and i think this is quite well known but there is a plot synopsis for Finding Nemo (an excellent film) which says something like
A serial killer murders a mans wife and family, only one of his children survives the attack but is left disabled. On the child's first day of school he is kidnapped and the father must pursue the kidnapper to rescue his son with the help of a mentally disabled woman.
now in this terms its a pretty bleak movie but its really not and my kids love it. But hopefully you can see how we described a situation greatly affects the conclusions we draw about it.
So can you relook at your Pros list and put a narrative against that says your W is telling the truth? what does that look like?
i'm just going to continue on a hypothetical line for a moment(and i really hope im not causing any offence or overstepping here).
Lets say your everything your W has said is 100% true and that she is lost and she feels lonely and that she is just desperatelty clinging on to whatever feels like it might give her some stability. What if i could somehow prove that there was nothing more to her relationship with OM other than he gave her somewhere to stay and they have become slightly dependent on each other in the way two people with similar issues can but there is nothing romantic at all? would that change how you feel? How would that change what you do?
i know im prying and but i worry that RD is feeling down and has fears that may not be founded and are more to do with RD's 'program' as your L/C would call it. and that this is causing you to suffer more than you need to and is holding you back from being the kind bright and positive beacon that helps your W find her way out of the fog.
I dont know, i might be way off, but i would hate for you suffer any more than you have especially if the reality of what is hurting you isnt as bad as you think.
But even if it is all as bad as you think, can you see how lost she is and forgive her for how her choices have hurt you and your family?
You're a good man and a good father and its good to concentrate on the good things in your life
Take care of yourself RD
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
PHi Nim. I want to really thank you for taking the time you are on me
L/C is just fantastic and called me today to see how I was. Her whole thing is getting rid of the programs and living from the real you She says your first reaction to a sitch is the real you and a nano second later the program kicks in
She is very much along DB lines but thinks in my sitch W needs me and our connection is all important L/C thinks W didn't leave me as much as leave the family unit because she is lost and not thinking straight. L/C thinks when W left she thought she wanted one thing but couldn't justify it to herself so left. The only support she got was from OM and his sister. L/C also agrees with your thoughts on OM leaning on W and visa versa. L/C is sure W will be back and points out that W has done nothing to improve her life or move on with her own life
Jim, I put down my lists to give you bullet points but there is so much more on the cons list that even I sometimes think OM can't even be a decent friend let alone more
It all comes down to my programs Jim. And that's why L/C is getting on my case
IF W was even telling 90% truth I would have tried to work on the M but as time goes on it appears that W is very troubled and getting worse She has made choices without really thinking them through and they are starting to bite
W cannot survive on her income she kept the children's aloownace and that pays her rent. She bought a car that is way to expensive to run and I lent her the money to tax it. The tax is now due again and she told me a few days ago that she can't pay me the loan money. I just said ok because regardless of OM she is seriously troubled and I don't think she can continue much longer.
At this stage I worry for her mental health but I can only control me
I have a friend in Surrey whos W died this time last year and who actually Iintroduced me to W call yesterday. When I told him of my planshe as good as begged me to stand because he said he has experienced true loss. He is also one of the friends who has seen the FB postings
I was with solicitor today and it didn't go as I thought He's a family freind and has told me to think about my plans for a month. We had a long chat and he was telling me that unless there was / is violence or abuse of some kind then he wants me to be 100%!sure because once it starts he said it can get very messy very quickly I explained my story and he said it sounds very much like issues got out of hand and will not resolve themselves without external intervention. He also told me that he divorced 22 years ago and regrets it everyday. He didn't go into details so I don't know the ins and outs. Long and short of it , I will take his advice and also reflect on your advice Jim Toots has also posted along your lines and I thank you both. It's incredible that strangers would put so much effort into my sitch.
Thanks Jim no question re this is too intrusive. Take care. Rd
