Surrendering this battle to win the war.

[Pyrite]

Hi 25,

Thanks for the reply and advice. You are absolutely right that I have a bee in my bonnet re: OM. I cooked him lunch while I was unaware of the EA going on in Nov 2014. But since that day suspected and have commented on here before re: all the shenanigans. But as you say - it is not worth the energy spent. And even though I have always agreed with that sentiment, it is something which I continually improve upon every day BUT have not achieved in full, yet.

That said, my argument, based on the "legal" documentation of the family court has been that among major issues to be addressed in a "custody agreement" whether reached via mediation or not, is "re-partnering". This is because it is well recognised that re-partnering can be traumatic for the children. It is a delicate issue to judge when is the right time to introduce a new partner to the situation. W including OM in family outings from day 1 after separation (literally - and labelling him as her family) is in her selfish interests AND NOT in the best interests of the children.

This HAS been an issue on countless occasions. d4 has commented every week indicating her confusion over Mummys replacement best friend etc etc. Finally, it is in the children best interests of parents to achieve effective co-parenting relationship. Her outright refusal to exclude him in any way IS NOT in the interests of fostering such a relationship.

Regardless, this issue of applying for full custody is spread across a few threads. Somewhere I noted basically this same legal advise that you gave. i.e. The court does not even want to make a decision unless it is necessary and it is not necessary unless there is evidence of one parent being "unfit" or negligent. As there is not, this also means that SHE has no grounds for such an application either. So end of story really. L action was only ever a preemptive strike.

HOWEVER, recently d4 has commented to indicate that she walked in on them. This is heresy of a 4 year old (albeit - 4 year olds have no basis from which to make up sexual performances), and possibly construed as an oversight and not deliberately

having sex in front of the kids

.

All of that said - I am over it. I have had a pretty good week
. Things are coming together. And I have everyone here to thank for it most of all.

[Pyrite]

As I have noted, I offered W to have kids on Mothers day (otherwise my cudtody). She declined as has become the norm. I was curious if she again told her family th at I ws unwilling. Anyway, MIL called me this morning, "can i come over/bring lunch". This is 2nd time since separation, an many phone calls.

Anyway, W did imply to her side that as Mothers day fell in my custody period she would just have to wait. MIL gets updates from me because can't talk to her daughter - even about custody mediation sessions etc. W is STILL really angry and attacks her Mum when she brings up anything related to M, former life, kids future etc.

I am curious whether it is normal for WW's to be angry in general, and show it to everyone post Sep. and not just H. My feeling is that she is angry because of 1 and/or 2.
1) She is conflicted
2) She is still hiding A. I revealed photo evidence (back in Feb) that the A was in full swing, something which she denied and presumably was hoping to reveal only at "some" interval post separation. She still denies it which is insane, but anyway.
2b) It is possible that he has rejected her recently as well - I jus dont know really.

Any comments? It sorta gives me hope that she is "angry" and not just moving on happily.

[Zues126]

You're going to have to let go here.

Here's the thing- no one knows what your W is going to do, because she's out of your control. Of course she's conflicted and afraid of judgment. Will that mean she hits rock bottom and sees things differently at some point? Or will she continue to medicate, avoid, and pursue more extreme distractions? Or will she gradually settle down on these things and stabilize into a healthier life but still want nothing to do with you?

The fact is that no one knows, and looking at her every mood change, conversational tone, etc, will only keep you very attached. This will cause you pain and suffering, and that pain and suffering will lead to more judgment and criticism of your W. Because where it's really coming from is "You're hurting me so you're bad"!!!

Think about that for a minute. If she wasn't hurting you, do you think you'd care about her behavior? Before you bring the kids in, hold up. There are MANY jerks on this planet that treat other people poorly. You don't let it get to you because they're not part of your world, you don't allow them to impact you. Well, you need to let go of your WAW so you begin to feel that way about her.

Because all of the criticism about her parenting, her cheating, her leaving the M, her behavior, her lies, her treatment of you...it's got to be very fatiguing. You know my sitch, so you know I get you have to be aware of the impact to the kids...but unless you have reason to take immediate protective action, you need to just leave it alone. Worrying about what others think of her and you, what they'll believe, who's side they're on, etc, not helping.

So how do you let go of this? Well, it is DEFINITELY a process, and won't happen immediately. But it won't happen naturally either. You have to decide you're going to break the habit of judging and criticizing your WAW, which again requires you to not allow her to hurt you anymore. If that means you have to "give up" on the M, that's fine, as long as "giving up" doesn't involve anything not DB recommended (medication, affairs, any bridge burners). But even until you're detached I want to know-

How do you normally find forgiveness for people that have hurt you? How do you normally avoid judging others?

Let me know, I have a few thoughts but want yours first.

[Pyrite]

i will sleep on it .Thanks for the questions.

[Pyrite]

hey Z,

i'm still thinking about your main questions. but re-reading your post several times I have to comment

Think about that for a minute. If she wasn't hurting you, do you think you'd care about her behavior? Before you bring the kids in, hold up. There are MANY jerks on this planet that treat other people poorly. You don't let it get to you because they're not part of your world, you don't allow them to impact you. Well, you need to let go of your WAW so you begin to feel that way about her.

This is true. You never returned to what happens when I do include the kids in, BUT this doesn't change what I know to be the truth, and your point. This quote segment and the rest is what I was kinda getting at with the posts about jumping off the roller-coaster.

She's not part of my world, the outcome with the M, what happens with her, her reactions, what she chooses to do, should also not be part of my world.

Not really for the sake of a future R, but lets call it that, I am on the path that I am , and will continue so, for the sake of my next R. Whether that is with her or not depends on circumstances at that time. I may not be attracted to a R with her. I suppose I wanted reassurance that this is OK to give up or perhaps even actively not want the M back. Actually, just typing that make me realise that I can't actively not want the M, or at least want to try and make the M work.

Bringing the kids into it, even when I am almost done, I know from where I am now even, that I will take two steps back for them, and give it a shot. There is nothing I wouldn't do for them, and if it kills me I will try to make the M work.

Realistically, 2 years down the track, even if I am not in another R, it will be very difficult to be attracted anew to a person that I know their "history" intimately. I doubt I will feel the love for her I do now, and I just may not feel it then. I am not going to force a R for the sake of kids. That R would be even worse than the one we had. Typing that about loving her, I even have to wonder how I actually feel about her now. Relative to 1,2,3,4 and 12 months ago. Things have changed. I have changed. Especially in the last month!

It may sound desperate, but I am not that worried about why she is angry really. It is a sore spot, but as you posted another time: I can poke the wound to test for tenderness, and most (at least a lot) of the time, I can deal with it without being emotional. I never thought I would feel this way, this detached. I can't imagine what the future holds now that I have two listing post BD scenarios that I can compare.

[Pyrite]

So how do you let go of this? Well, it is DEFINITELY a process, and won't happen immediately. But it won't happen naturally either. You have to decide you're going to break the habit of judging and criticizing your WAW, which again requires you to not allow her to hurt you anymore. If that means you have to "give up" on the M, that's fine, as long as "giving up" doesn't involve anything not DB recommended (medication, affairs, any bridge burners).

This is almost to the letter the reassurance I wanted/needed to hear!!

[Smothy]

So how do you let go of this? Well, it is DEFINITELY a process, and won't happen immediately. But it won't happen naturally either. You have to decide you're going to break the habit of judging and criticizing your WAW, which again requires you to not allow her to hurt you anymore. If that means you have to "give up" on the M, that's fine, as long as "giving up" doesn't involve anything not DB recommended (medication, affairs, any bridge burners).

This is almost to the letter the reassurance I wanted/needed to hear!!

Same, I need to jump off this roller coaster as I am beginning to hate myself for not being able to get off and not allow myself to be hurt. I have to willingly make that decision.

My new goal I will actively decide this everyday. Thank you.

[Zues126]

Three tools I use to find compassion or to transcend emotional reaction. They are not unique, just sharing coping mechanisms.

1. If it's childish, I don't play. I picture walking by an elementary school with a bunch of 4th graders playing "king of the hill". Suddenly, one of the kids shouts at me "you couldn't be king of the hill, you're not strong enough!" It's a silly challenge, of course I could go knock them all down and prove them wrong. But who would be the fool? The 4th grader that issued a silly challenge? Or the adult that allowed a child to engage him emotionally and provoke a physical response? Again, if it's childish, I don't need to play.

2. There but for the grace of God go I. If I had been born into their life, had been given the same upbringing, had the same coping tools, and faced the same challenges...I would have made the same decisions. True, God made me different. He gave me different strengths, different values perhaps, different perspective. But it's not because I am good and they are bad that we act differently. It is by God's grace. I cannot judge another for not having been the beneficiary of the gifts I have received. In fact, I need to be appreciate of what I have, and compassionate for those that are suffering for want of those skills. (which leads to #3...)

3. I have to put up with it for a few minutes, they have to LIVE THEIR ENTIRE LIVES like this. If someone is nasty, negative, aggressive, confrontational, cancerous...no, it isn't fun to deal with. But after my interaction with that person I get to go on with my life which is overwhelmingly positive, loving, peaceful, and filled with good things. They don't get to do this. They have to spend every minute of every hour looking at the world through the lens of that negativity. While they find moments of peace, they are in tremendous discord, and I have compassion for their suffering even if it's done by their own hand.

Practice these viewpoints in response to not just WAS but anyone that wants to spit venom on you. Yes, I still have to navigate through moments that are unpleasant, but at least it is just a momentary spider bite, and it doesn't infect me with the poison of anger, resentment, and criticism. Or at least not at fatal levels

[Pyrite]

How do you normally find forgiveness for people that have hurt you? How do you normally avoid judging others?

My 1st reaction is I don't. Thinking a bit more I have actually had to forgive people before for big things, and regular for small things. I think this is combined with the "judging" aspect you question.

I suppose what I have done without being consciously aware of it, and what I have to do now consciously is accept what has happened, and not be "judgemental" of my W. I use "" because I mean not to extrapolate her reaction to her entire personality. And like your post to Smothy, steps 2. and 3. She is not me. Accept her to be her.

I saw (existing) IC today (best session ever BTW - real breakthroughs between us AND for me). We got talking about where I think I need to go to next. I told her that I felt I needed to forgive her. She asked the same question as you did Dr Z. I told her that ^^^^ was my understanding of all that I could do to "forgive her".

She gave me a few extra pointers, but commented that it was too early to expect this, and take it easy on myself. Just live with where I am for a while and detach from here. This was really good advice for me - I am attacking this like I do everything else that I want, full throttle.

She also asked me why I thought this was (ready to 2*4 me if I strayed - which is exactly what I want/need). Low self-esteem. Then we linked everything together, coming from this low self esteem.

I distinctly remember my pre-tumour childhood and being a normal kid. She thinks I have brought my childlike coping mechanisms (which are fine as a child), into my adult life, which absolutely don't work.

Great day. Ironically realise I am a total f*** up, but great day. Because from here, I am in charge. For the first time in my life, today and the past few weeks I honestly feel like I have a say. I have never felt in charge of who I am, I can control who I want to be. I want to call my W and share it with her. I know I can help her as well, but sadly I agree with everyone here - you have to hit rock bottom and then do it on your own.

:* Love you guys.

[Smothy]

[QUOTE=Zeus]

She gave me a few extra pointers, but commented that it was too early to expect this, and take it easy on myself. Just live with where I am for a while and detach from here. This was really good advice for me - I am attacking this like I do everything else that I want, full throttle.
.

My IC told me this too today, that I am too hard on myself, it has been such a short space of time. Grieving takes time and I must understand H choice is about how he felt and what he wanted/ chosen to do. Not anyone's control but his. She reminded me that I need to remember that I did the best that I knew how at the time.