Welp, it looks like ol' Defacto is about to get served D papers.
The night started out great. I help W get the kids out of the car. W hugged and said I smelled good. I already had a table reserved at the restaurant. However, as we were walking up to the restaurant, I knew something would be up because W had her planner and a folder in her hand. But, I ignored it for the time being. I asked W how her day went. We talked about the kids. We talked about the holiday. We laughed and were having a great time. I was smiling a lot, making eye contact, etc.
At one point in the conversation, W says something like, "Well, we know where this is headed." I replied, "What do you mean?" W then said that she wanted to talk about a parenting plan. I said ok but with reservation. W started talking about holidays and how it was good to get it all sorted out now so both of our future new families can adapt, etc. I stopped W and asked, "How is it so easy for you to talk about the end of us?" W said that she had to be because we were in a public place. In response, I said that I was having a great time tonight and I thought it best to talk about this some other time. W agreed with me.
We continued with our dinner, I continued to remain upbeat/positive, and soon it was time to go. I offered to split the bill but W insisted on treating. I helped load the kids in W's car and walked over to W's side of the car to give D4 a kiss.
W then stood next to me and asked me when would be a good time for me to be served. W said that she didn't want to do it while I was at work or with the kids. I repeated again that this was devastating. W hugged me.
I asked W what the rush was? I asked W why we couldn't slow everything down over the summer for the sake of the kids? W responded that things have only gotten worse and uglier as time has passed. W stated that this is what she has wanted since December. I reminded W that feelings can change. W then told me that my reputation was still intact but that her's has been "dragged through the mud." W stated that she would have to start over, make new friends, and that all areas of her life were impacted, including her job. At this point, I didn't want to beg or plead so I just listened to W and looked into her eyes and so I understood.
The conversation winded down and I gave the kids another kiss. W hugged me again and kissed me on the cheek. I thanked her for dinner and said I had a great time. I smiled and waved goodbye.
A few minutes ago, W texts me "Thanks for meeting for dinner. I really enjoyed it."
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
I actually think that went kind of well. You shared your feelings without being overly emotional and her objections, rationalizations and justifications are amazingly flimsy.
Her reputation has to be rebuilt "starting over" either way, she destroyed her own reputation by having an affair so of course yours is intact.
How exactly is filing for divorce going to stop or otherwise slow down "things getting worse and uglier as time has passed"?
She just doesn't appear to have anything close to solid upon which to hang her hat on. Many way wards have at least a couple of things, like that time you looked at porn (and they call you a porn addict) or that time you shoved them away from you (while they were trying to slap you) as an indication you are just too abusive. Whatever, I FEEL your wife is softening and gaining empathy for you MAYBE as she seems to want to help you through this process (and in so doing come to the realization that you actually care deeply about her more than anyone ever has....which SHE has to realize on her own without you telling her).
Don't fret the divorce action. Sure it's one step closer to being divorced but by the time the divorce actually happens, IF it happens, you'll pretty much be ready for it. Plenty of divorces never finish.
If you were my friend and I was consoling you over a beer I'd encourage you to answer her divorce petition aggressively. I HOPE she files requesting 50/50 custody (don't be shocked if it's not...many attorneys will start out asking for 100% or primary looking to negotiate down to 50/50 from there versus getting caught off guard asking for 50/50 and then realizing the other side is going to counter requesting 100% with supervised visitation. Again...you've already set a pretty laid back cooperative posture which may be OK as a hope for marital reconciliation plan but if you were my buddy, I'd tell you to counter asking for at least primary custody with her getting every other weekend and wednesday nights.
Honestly, she's NOT a very good parent. A good parent doesn't have affairs with married doctors at work jeopardizing their marriages, careers, integrity and families. A good parent doesn't throw away the father of their children to seek out their happiness. A good parent doesn't subject their children to consequences of divorce. A good parent doesn't subject their children to a parade of other men and step fathers needlessly. A good parent doesn't disrespect their vows to God and then, once exposed not fix it and model appropriate behavior for their children how to behave when you've messed up.
Your children are better off raised by you. You are the primary parent concerned about THEIR best interests right now. She hasn't been for awhile. You had them thinking you'd have 100% custody. Your wife had an affair and is (maybe) leaving you...why is she entitled to take away 50% of your custody of the kids??? She's not....
It doesn't hurt your case to simply ask for primary custody. You can hide behind your attorney and say "that's what he/she said I needed to do and I don't want to discuss it". She will have to face herself and look in the mirror and realize that she COULD lose the case and lose even more time with her children and face the inner questions of whether she truly deserves to lose more custody of her kids.
This also depends on the state. You may not want to risk getting contentious like this in a state where you aren't essentially guaranteed at least 50/50 as a dad. Some states are just way to mom leaning to risk alienating a wayward wife that wants to play nice. There is also money considerations and custody cases can get expensive but those are reasons that delaying the divorce, making it a battle, end up leading towards reconciliation. When the addict hits rock bottom, they sometimes climb out of the hole, see the destruction THEY caused all around them and REPENT. If you make this too easy for her...she'll just go with the flow. You can always settle later on back at 50/50 or whatever she's proposing today. if it's fine today...it'll be fine for her later on to.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
GB, Thanks again for the support. You have been a friend to me through this miss. Sending a virtual Fat Tire your way, brother.
Now is not the time to be congratulating myself, but I do feel that it went fairly well. I did and said all the things I wanted to do. I wanted to have fun together with the kids. And per W's text message, she enjoyed it too. It is hard to ignore that there was talk of D and of W looking at new houses but I just have to take all of that in stride.
You bring great points about child custody that I haven't considered. However, one reason I don't want child custody to get contentious is that the kids deserve the possible situation if this leads to D. And the best possible situation for them, I believe, requires W and I to have a workable relationship. If I fight for majority custody, which I feel like I might be justified to do, I don't believe it ends well for a co parenting relationship of W and I post divorce. Plus, I know W will resort to those bogus accusations against me that she was throwing around days after I exposed the A to OM's W. We'll see though. Everything is certainly fluid right now. It all depends on what is those pending D papers.
As far as my approach towards W is concerned, I really don't think I need to change anything. W is obviously not wanting to work on M. I just need to continue to move forward on self improvement and detachment. I need to be the best father I can to my wonderful kids. If W calls or I see W, I will be confident, calm, and cordial, yet I will be vulnerable when appropriate.
Am I missing anything?
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
And good luck to you this Saturday! How are you doing with your prep work?
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
GB, Thanks again for the support. You have been a friend to me through this miss. Sending a virtual Fat Tire your way, brother.
Now is not the time to be congratulating myself, but I do feel that it went fairly well. I did and said all the things I wanted to do. I wanted to have fun together with the kids. And per W's text message, she enjoyed it too. It is hard to ignore that there was talk of D and of W looking at new houses but I just have to take all of that in stride.
You bring great points about child custody that I haven't considered. However, one reason I don't want child custody to get contentious is that the kids deserve the possible situation if this leads to D. And the best possible situation for them, I believe, requires W and I to have a workable relationship. If I fight for majority custody, which I feel like I might be justified to do, I don't believe it ends well for a co parenting relationship of W and I post divorce. Plus, I know W will resort to those bogus accusations against me that she was throwing around days after I exposed the A to OM's W. We'll see though. Everything is certainly fluid right now. It all depends on what is those pending D papers.
As far as my approach towards W is concerned, I really don't think I need to change anything. W is obviously not wanting to work on M. I just need to continue to move forward on self improvement and detachment. I need to be the best father I can to my wonderful kids. If W calls or I see W, I will be confident, calm, and cordial, yet I will be vulnerable when appropriate.
Am I missing anything?
Like I said, be prepared for her divorce papers to actually BE aggressive and make those assertions about you anyway. Especially if you've got some stuff on her she and her attorney MIGHT NOT want to chance going the nice route only to be shocked by you filings aggressively (see it would be hard for her to amend a nice divorce petition asking for 50/50 and then amend it saying "he's a danger to me and my kids" after that).
Another thought. What your wife is doing to you is abusive. Infidelity is abuse. By going along with it and being so nice to her now and after any divorce exactly what are you modeling to your children? Do you want your children to learn that they should just swallow and accept spousal (or boyfriend/girlfrind) abuse for the good of the family or relationship? That they should rock the boat and they should set aside their feelings and thoughts for everyone else because everyone else matters more than them? Besides, your wife technically isn't co-parenting at all. Like I said above, your wife is an unfit parent right now and if she divorces you she'll remain an pretty unfit mother in varying degrees indefinitely. Your kids need their mother, but they also need as much protection from their selfish entitled mother who will put her happiness paramount to their whenever it suits her.
Last thought. You matter also. You've been abused and yet you're insisting that it's important for the kids that you continue this abusive relationship with your wife even after she abusively divorces you for no good reason. That's not healthy FOR YOU. Your kids need you healthy MORE than they need you and mom pretend sucking up to one another. They need you healthy especially because they have an unhealthy entitled and selfish mother who can and will throw people away when it suits her. Now, I think in time a divorced betrayed spouse can reenter into a workable collaborative post divorce relationship with their wayward ex spouse but certainly not immediately. If she divorces you I think you should seriously consider a "parallel parenting" plan in order for you to detach yourself completely to the fullest extent possible and regain your health after this trial and turmoil where you've been disrespected and robbed of your wife and 50% of your time with your children. In fact, if nothing changes and you see the affair continues full speed ahead, I'd suggest implementing this ASAP during the divorce to drive the point home that this "friendship" won't continue if she actually divorces you.
Some states like Indiana have a statutory parallel parenting plan either spouse can request in the divorce process.
Quote:
Parallel Parenting
Definition. Parallel parenting is an arrangement in which divorced parents are able to co-parent by means of disengaging from each other, and having limited direct contact, in situations where they have demonstrated that they are unable to communicate with each other in a respectful manner. For intractable high conflict families, parallel parenting provides an opportunity for co-parenting, and although parents remain disengaged from each other they remain fully connected to their children. Within such an arrangement, parents may assume decision-making responsibility in different domains (such as one parent being responsible for medical decisions and the other for education). More often than not, however, they agree on major decisions regarding children’s upbringing but separately decide the logistics of routine, day-to-day parenting.
In many cases, with parallel parenting in place, the passage of time allows the dust to settle between parents, to the point where parents achieve cooperative parenting from a place of initial disengagement. When parents successfully parent within a parallel parenting arrangement, and maintain their end of the parenting agreement, trust is gradually restored and parents put aside their hostilities. At that point a more collaborative and cooperative parenting regime becomes established. Parallel parenting thus provides a foundation for cooperative parenting, as parents move from a place of disengagement toward more direct communication and negotiation.
Benefits. Parallel parenting protects children’s relationships with both parents while shielding them from parental conflict. Although parallel parenting is not a panacea for high conflict, research studies indicate that it does protect children from being placed in the middle of parental conflict, and facilitates co-parenting in high conflict situations. It is not the presence of parental conflict as much as children’s direct exposure to that conflict which is harmful to them. Most important, parallel parenting makes clear that both parents are equally important in a child’s life regardless of the hostility and acrimony between them.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
GB, Thanks again for the support. You have been a friend to me through this miss. Sending a virtual Fat Tire your way, brother.
Now is not the time to be congratulating myself, but I do feel that it went fairly well. I did and said all the things I wanted to do. I wanted to have fun together with the kids. And per W's text message, she enjoyed it too. It is hard to ignore that there was talk of D and of W looking at new houses but I just have to take all of that in stride.
You bring great points about child custody that I haven't considered. However, one reason I don't want child custody to get contentious is that the kids deserve the possible situation if this leads to D. And the best possible situation for them, I believe, requires W and I to have a workable relationship. If I fight for majority custody, which I feel like I might be justified to do, I don't believe it ends well for a co parenting relationship of W and I post divorce. Plus, I know W will resort to those bogus accusations against me that she was throwing around days after I exposed the A to OM's W. We'll see though. Everything is certainly fluid right now. It all depends on what is those pending D papers.
As far as my approach towards W is concerned, I really don't think I need to change anything. W is obviously not wanting to work on M. I just need to continue to move forward on self improvement and detachment. I need to be the best father I can to my wonderful kids. If W calls or I see W, I will be confident, calm, and cordial, yet I will be vulnerable when appropriate.
Am I missing anything?
Like I said, be prepared for her divorce papers to actually BE aggressive and make those assertions about you anyway. Especially if you've got some stuff on her she and her attorney MIGHT NOT want to chance going the nice route only to be shocked by you filings aggressively (see it would be hard for her to amend a nice divorce petition asking for 50/50 and then amend it saying "he's a danger to me and my kids" after that).
Another thought. What your wife is doing to you is abusive. Infidelity is abuse. By going along with it and being so nice to her now and after any divorce exactly what are you modeling to your children? Do you want your children to learn that they should just swallow and accept spousal (or boyfriend/girlfrind) abuse for the good of the family or relationship? That they should rock the boat and they should set aside their feelings and thoughts for everyone else because everyone else matters more than them? Besides, your wife technically isn't co-parenting at all. Like I said above, your wife is an unfit parent right now and if she divorces you she'll remain an pretty unfit mother in varying degrees indefinitely. Your kids need their mother, but they also need as much protection from their selfish entitled mother who will put her happiness paramount to their whenever it suits her.
Last thought. You matter also. You've been abused and yet you're insisting that it's important for the kids that you continue this abusive relationship with your wife even after she abusively divorces you for no good reason. That's not healthy FOR YOU. Your kids need you healthy MORE than they need you and mom pretend sucking up to one another. They need you healthy especially because they have an unhealthy entitled and selfish mother who can and will throw people away when it suits her. Now, I think in time a divorced betrayed spouse can reenter into a workable collaborative post divorce relationship with their wayward ex spouse but certainly not immediately. If she divorces you I think you should seriously consider a "parallel parenting" plan in order for you to detach yourself completely to the fullest extent possible and regain your health after this trial and turmoil where you've been disrespected and robbed of your wife and 50% of your time with your children. In fact, if nothing changes and you see the affair continues full speed ahead, I'd suggest implementing this ASAP during the divorce to drive the point home that this "friendship" won't continue if she actually divorces you.
Some states like Indiana have a statutory parallel parenting plan either spouse can request in the divorce process.
Quote:
Parallel Parenting
Definition. Parallel parenting is an arrangement in which divorced parents are able to co-parent by means of disengaging from each other, and having limited direct contact, in situations where they have demonstrated that they are unable to communicate with each other in a respectful manner. For intractable high conflict families, parallel parenting provides an opportunity for co-parenting, and although parents remain disengaged from each other they remain fully connected to their children. Within such an arrangement, parents may assume decision-making responsibility in different domains (such as one parent being responsible for medical decisions and the other for education). More often than not, however, they agree on major decisions regarding children’s upbringing but separately decide the logistics of routine, day-to-day parenting.
In many cases, with parallel parenting in place, the passage of time allows the dust to settle between parents, to the point where parents achieve cooperative parenting from a place of initial disengagement. When parents successfully parent within a parallel parenting arrangement, and maintain their end of the parenting agreement, trust is gradually restored and parents put aside their hostilities. At that point a more collaborative and cooperative parenting regime becomes established. Parallel parenting thus provides a foundation for cooperative parenting, as parents move from a place of disengagement toward more direct communication and negotiation.
Benefits. Parallel parenting protects children’s relationships with both parents while shielding them from parental conflict. Although parallel parenting is not a panacea for high conflict, research studies indicate that it does protect children from being placed in the middle of parental conflict, and facilitates co-parenting in high conflict situations. It is not the presence of parental conflict as much as children’s direct exposure to that conflict which is harmful to them. Most important, parallel parenting makes clear that both parents are equally important in a child’s life regardless of the hostility and acrimony between them.
Admittedly, I've spent so much energy agonizing about W's A and our crumbling MR that I just assumed that 50/50 custody was the way to go here. I do need to spend some time dwelling on this and will obviously review my options with my L once I get served.
The parallel parenting plan looks like a fantastic option. It appears to mirror my personality well. Thanks for this insight!
You're right, I DO matter. But, I know I will emerge from this a whole person either way. I need to really sit down and think about what is best for my children if things continue down this path. I feel I need to do so in a way where I only have their best interests at heart, irregardless of any anger, bitterness, or hurt I feel. But I admit, I'm certainly giving W a lot of undeserved credit right now in regards to her patenting fitness.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
Defacto - I am sorry you made it to this point. It is agonizing and difficult. It will be the most stressful thing you may ever do. My X was hell bent on proceeding, or rather finishing what was started. It is in this light that I caution you....
Quote:
I need to really sit down and think about what is best for my children if things continue down this path.
You are going down this path. Make no mistake about it. Be prepared. This person is not your W. She is someone else. Be prepared. Things that will be said and done will be difficult. Be prepared. It is time for you to cover your bases and get in front.
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Defacto - I am sorry you made it to this point. It is agonizing and difficult. It will be the most stressful thing you may ever do. My X was hell bent on proceeding, or rather finishing what was started. It is in this light that I caution you....
Quote:
I need to really sit down and think about what is best for my children if things continue down this path.
You are going down this path. Make no mistake about it. Be prepared. This person is not your W. She is someone else. Be prepared. Things that will be said and done will be difficult. Be prepared. It is time for you to cover your bases and get in front.
Mahhhty, You are totally right. The time is now. Thanks for keeping me focused on reality.
What other bases do I need to cover? I have protected the assets and W moved out. All checking accounts are separated. I obviously need to put a game plan together for custody. I have a L waiting once I get served. Anything else I'm forgetting?
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
Well, I've been thinking lots but haven't put anything on paper yet. Had a total meltdown yesterday, so couldn't even bare to think to find a response to all the bad things my mind was telling me that he will say, and today I've been out and about all day. Will start, a.s.a.p!
All my best!
M: 44 H: 43 ILYBNILWY: 7/4-15 Decided to try to reconnect. "This doesn't work, I have no feelings": 20/4-15 Scheduled "talk" :9/5-15 It's over: 9/5
