at the moment I will just take the small amounts of peace that have been given to me.
Should probably pack this with the mirror for the journey. You'll want this too.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Well my journey continues. W's Birthday was Friday, I was on the fence with what to do, what not to do ... all that. As I think I mentioned I did take the night off (Huge 180 for me). During the day I had Flowers sent to her work, I did this last year too ... Just a note "Hope you have a wonderful Birthday, signed S, Tommy(the dog) Cali." No "Love" or anything. She TM early in the day asking if I got her balloons, I said no balloons they must have been from someone else, then she quickly replied that her gf at work sent them. Later in the day she received the flowers, her favorite, 30 tulips. She told me they were gorgeous and said "2 Dozen??" with a smiley face. I told her to count them and there better be 30, one for every year with a wink. She told me I was sweet and she was blushing. I lughed to myself, hey we all know the MLC thing hinges on age and what they think they missed out on, why not use that a little to my advantage, I know she is hung up on her age and looks ... its her B-day why not .. hahaha.
So ^^^ got me thinking a bit. W's identity has always seemed to gravitate around her looks, and with age she is still a knock out but I see her look towards younger women, little remarks here n there, seems to be an issue for her. I think she is starting to come to grips that age gets us all, though she is still putting up a fight.
Saturday was S's 1st Communion, W was in old form a bit, and after a few hours it took its toll. One of the Old M things that I did not like was W had to be in control of everything, and me being the fixer I either went along to avoid the fight or would enable. I see that so clearly now. The Day started off with her wanting to take her car after I offered to drive, ok fine, I still drove, just her car. On the way she tried to tell me how to get there (Her way), Once there she attempted to control the photoshoot, this put S and I both into not so happy moods. Finally in church as I thought ahead and grabbed a seat she had a little remark about wanting to sit in front (I ignored but this was the last straw) We get through Communion and after she asked why S was upset, and why I seemed upset. I said we should talk this out as a family, all 3 of us went to a bench and I asked S why he was upset, he shared that W pressures to much, was being bossy, and took to many pictures. I asked W why she was upset and after some small little things I seen through I asked what was really bothering her and she shared that her family was not there for S's big day. I realized her actions all morning were more from that than anything. STFU really helps. We patched things up and finished with the pictures.
W and I did get into it after as I never really shared how she upset me, we were going to lunch .. S's favorite that we agreed upon and she suggested we go to a different place (Just so happened to be the place she took me for my B-day, yup and that night was BD) So I told her I did not want to go there, she asked why I told her I just didnt .. she kept on and then I went ahead and told her why. We had it out a bit, but I really think it was healthy for me. I told her I am not going to be the "Go-along" guy any longer, that my needs and wants matter. If she could not see that nor understand it I can not help her with that, we had some choice words here and there but I held my ground and let her know I would rather be alone than back in the old M where she was fully in charge, then would say she wants a man to make a decision ... really put light on how she contradicts herself, and then would cast blame on me for everything afterwards. Was a lightbulb moment, and if nothing else was me standing up and voicing my opinion and not backing down. In the past I would try to fix this, this time I said my peace, stood my ground and never wavered.... big step for me. We ended up taking a break and meeting up for a later lunch, she apologized, and I told her I expect us to have a few of those, if anything it clears things. I actually felt better after, especially when I realized those fights used to erupt into such hateful things said by us both, we seem to now be able to recover and move on much more quickly.
After all that we really had a good weekend, I fell asleep at her place on the floor watching TV, she woke me and I slept in S's bed, woke up early and went home ... cleaned up and went to church. We spent most of Sunday together, lunch, movies, little shopping. All in all a good weekend where I feel we took a nibble out of the elephant. I still am looking for a MC, hopefully early this week I land one.
Just wow, Cali. You handled that very well. Like a man. I am thoroughly impressed to say the least. You saw well beyond the immediate and didn't "fix" things, but handled them well. That's impressive.
I've been meaning to follow up on the forgiveness thread. Hope you don't mind
It occurs to me that even if the other person doesn't want forgiveness, we still need to. Why? Because that's how it starts. Further, it occurred to me that my happiest times were always when I wasn't focused on just me. Sure I matter, but there's a bigger picture. More dynamics. More people that also count.
I say that's how it starts. Even if the other person doesn't want it, that's how it starts in my view. I still don't think full forgiveness can happen without the other person, but I also realize that somebody has to start the cycle. And I realize that even if they don't want it, they do, on some level, need it. I feel I am narrowing it down a bit. How this life stuff works in that sense.
In your case, I think it does really start with you. As the leader you have become. Your confidence and firmness and decisiveness is inspiring. Especially since it's not a "me" focused path. The trick seems to be in balancing the hurt and anger with the need for forgiveness. i.e. stopping the hurt. What I've come to realize more and more is that he hurt stops when I say it does. Not because I no longer care, as I previously thought. But because I say it no longer has the power to hurt me. It just is what it is. I was already there, but the next step? That's the struggle right? How to be me, be a leader and let go of the past hurtful actions and sayings. i.e. I know she meant it to hurt (for whatever reasons - doesn't matter any longer) but if not for that, I wouldn't be who I am today. It didn't kill me. It hurt for sure, but I give up the rights I have to hurt back. And even the idea that I have that right
I hope that helps give you a reason to think a bit more, Cali. I think you're doing wonderfully and I hope you find a good MC/IC. I honestly believe she is trying. Nobody really knows where it goes, but then, you never knew before right?
Glad to read this post tonight. And glad for the reasons to re-think things I thought I was done with and set in my thinking.
Cheers,
AJ
P.S. your feelings and wants do matter as much as the rest of the family. It's how you as a team blend them that makes the difference.
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Thank you AJ ... like all things with me, I think the true growth happens by setting aside some things, getting quiet and really thinking about it ... like the forgiveness angle... for some time and then slowly getting to that spot on the map I know I want to be at, nothing happens overnight and there are still plenty of things I am taking with me that I need to drop off before I can arrive to the place I would like to be.
The recent hang up for me (My current hurdle I am dealing with), yes she does appear to be trying ... and maybe this is where my sitch is somewhat different from ones I have read so I am sailing in uncharted waters. She seems to be trying not so much because she wants me per say, but because the R did not work out with OM and she has sabotaged that to the point of no repair .... similar to the way she tried with our M, now OM appears to have been of the 'player' variety so he obviously has checked out and moved on, from what I gather he was the one constantly dumping W .... making her pursue even more. For whatever reason I am still here believing that the new M could be the one I have always wanted ... is this setting myself up for failure, or is it unexplained blind faith ... this remains to be seen, I have however reached a place of self worth where I refuse to be door #2, but how after all this could I ever feel that I was door #1 all the while .... given the facts. Again ... not sure there is anything she can do, she can not take any of this back, like me she can not undo the past, its there ... its how I move forward that truly matters, and I can either let the past influence me, or maybe I can get over all the hurt/pain that came of it ..... I would have to do this regardless of M or not.
I found this forum very late into the game ... almost a year after BD, and was a few months before I discovered this MLC thing, I never begged nor pleaded ... but I admittedly did somethings had I been here I think would have gone differently. That being said this hang up of being the back up is fueled by the hurt little boy along with the burnt hand syndrome of going through several touch and go's along the way, not seeing them for what they were, and basically scaring the squirrel back deep into the tunnel ... something I am not doing now, but it does seem to be more reconnection rather than a touch and go, still I am moving slowly and cautiously ... during this the hurt and pain will come out of nowhere, like an ambush and its all I can do to remain calm Navy Seal style and not blink ...much.
As far as forgiveness, I think its easy to confuse that with completely getting over the pain. I feel like I forgave some time ago, right about rope drop time where I realized her actions would no longer wreck my life. I had to let go of that for me .... dealing with the pain and the 'triggers' that come with it ... yeah I am not there yet. I am not holding onto that stuff, I do not want it , I would prefer to have peace ... it was good for a bit but did seem to come when there was a change of heart with the W's reconnection phase, and she does seem to understand to a point ... but not overly apologetic, again .. seems in line with the MLC thing, complete oblivion with many things.
I do see the benefit in her actually wanting forgiveness, and at some point asking for it .... seems if that were to happen there is that mutual "We can move one from this now" vibe ...regardless if that means move on from the M, or attempt to fix it. Something I hope MC would touch on ... however at this point I am frustrated as I am 0-5 with the MC appts ... seems there is alot of M's out there needing work, not just ours. I shared this with W last night, she thanked me for doing the leg work, even suggested that the priest would like to talk to us once she feels she has dealt with her chit ... again .. positive step in the right direction, as was her calling me this morning and talking about her work, S, my work, future for about 45 minutes ... felt nice, no anger or bitterness, not even once frustrating word.
Last night while S called her I jumped in the shower, once I got out I put S to bed then got ready to walk the dog .. .W TM asking if I would be up later and if she could call. She called actually wanting advice on her work. Serious fear she will get laid off soon. I told her my thoughts. This morning she called on her way to physical therapy, actually more curious about my day, work, etc. She again went into the what if scenarios with her job, we talked about how ever since she was laid off in 2009 she never found that replacement, I suggested it could be because she compares it all to that dream job, they will never live up to that so she is always frustrated and disappointed they all have not hit that mark. She actually listened and thought I might have a point.
She called again after therapy, this time about S and his summer camp. We had to actually go to the civic center, pay in full for the summer to make sure he got a spot. She is pressed against it at work and was worried about taking time off, I told her I would handle it .... jumped on my bike and rode to the place, got him all signed up and TM her it was all taken care of, we would sort out the $$ thing later. She called immediately thanking me, profusely, I told her no problem, made a joke how if we did not get him in the other option would be putting the kid up for adoption .... its tough as we really have no family nor friends to rely on to take S here n there (Another issue in the M honestly)
On my ride back ... several more TM thanking me, this is a 180 for Cali 1.0, W always had to do these things as my old job I could not just up and go, here I have that freedom and thankfully its helping turn things for me, was never that I didn't want to... but I can see how W felt all this pressure to take care of everything ... CAli 2.0 just is not going to have her feel that pressure any longer.
The talk this morning, I kind of thought to myself ... wow .. its like nothing ever happened, was one of 'our' talks. She really has been ramping up and trying to reconnect, nothing about our sitch or 'us' really. She has been hugging me more often, we discussed the 5 LL I do not think she has read the book ... even though its on the iPad on the Kindle ... but when I described her LL was Acts of service (What I did today) mine is Physical touch ... has been more hugs, held hands a bit in the movies Sunday ... things are moving slowly in the right direction. Which leads me to kissing, we have not really gone there, I do feel I have to instigate this but the push pull dance is heavy with us .. not so sure I want to have a backslide because I went in lips-a-blazin ... nor do I want rejection which will feed hurt little boy. Just things on my mind, spill it here .. seems to help me there kind of thing.
Hiya Luke. Man, those updates made me smile. You are doing so great. You are doing the work. You are walking the walk. Good on you.
Just want to talk about two things right now. Yea, Im a nag...deal with it.
I do not want to underestimate the deep hurt that is caused by the MLCers actions. I have felt it..and it succks. And yea, you dont get over it quickly. It is a process.
The way a MLC usually goes, is that the spouse is the last they reconnect with. That means you wont hear an apology now..or maybe ever for that matter. And you wont hear her say she wants you. Not at this point. She has a ways to go.
So, you have to decide if you are willing to take a leap of faith. Thats really the bottom line, right? Because Im thinking even if she told you everything you wanted to hear, you would still have doubts and would still have to choose whether to take the leap or not, considering there are no quarantees either way.
I am not one to give an MLCer a pass on their actions. They have to own those. However, an affair during an MLC is a symptom of a very broken person. So, truthfully, though it feels like it is personal, it really doesnt have anything to do with you. She didnt have one to hurt you.
Now thats not to say that there werent things that needed fixing in your marriage and things you both needed to change.
And maybe the end of the affair was the impetus for her to try to reconnect. It could have been what was needed in order for her to look at herself. She could have chosen to find someone else or to lead her own life.
So maybe being chosen second really isnt what is happening here.
Either way, the way to peace is in healing the hurt little boy.
uR ... I never see it as nagging ... usually its things I need to see from a different perspective, just as this, things I have to sit and think about very deeply, sometimes hours/days even weeks till my thick skull can wrap itself around it.
Strange .. "Leap of Faith" that phrase has been following me lately. The W used it over the weekend talking about trying to make the marriage work, that at some point I would need to take that jump ... ofcourse she claims she already has ... again ..knowing she has a long way to go, I am just trying not to get sucked in, observe and continue on my path, as I to have even more work to do.
Maybe others have touched on this .. maybe not, I have been thinking alot about it. I think when we detach, drop the rope, we also let go alot of that hurt and pain, atleast I did. Felt good really, in my mind I figured ... ok .. going to D and thats ok, I will be ok, heck, I will be better, I deserved better ... what happened happened and I tried all I could but things did not work out .... in a way, it was a way off the hook, W came down with a serious MLC, destroyed what was left of our not so good marriage ... maybe she did me a favor, regardless time for a new slate, new life lets go. THEN ... Baaa BAA Bommm... she says "I do not want to D, I want to work on our M" ... now hold on a hot minute, I was good and starting to figure out my new life .. now you want to tell me what I have hoped you would say for the past 2 years. Ok, change gears... scratch that , change cars ... glad to hear it, lets start working things out ...
Its like moving into a new house, you learned lessons in that first one, the DYI projects that you would do differently, better, never do laminate flooring again, go tile or hardwood, looks better, easier to maintain .... you have a new focus, you realize all the mistakes you made before .. for me .. I was the pursuin, non conflict, fixer ... Not now, not only did that behaivior get me nowhere, it also eroded any respect W had for me, along with the respect I had for myself ... never again. So moving into this new house .. for a few weeks it was all about trying to get comfortable, then you start becoming more aware of your own feelings, it should feel like home but it just doesn't, not yet.
Then going through some old boxes and whammo the old memories that I thought were done, dealt with and gone, nope, in that box, the hurts and the pains, the betrayal, all that stuff right there in the box. I know this stuff has no place in the house, for now its in the garage, I want to take it to the dump, I do .. but its there, still in there, sometimes I just forget about it for a bit ... but knowing its there, or something reminds me its there, it would be nice if it were so easy to just load it up and toss it, but something tells me I need to sort through it, address it, label it and in time I can slowly sneak it in the regular trash and one day that box will not be such an item of focus. Again, I am the only one who can deal with this box, I get it and accept it ... I also accept I do not want this box to dirty up that new house, the one I hoped we might get to one day ... even if at this time it does not feel like home, I am lucky to have come this far ... still more work to do.
Luke, I like your metaphors and the way you use these images to look at things.
I completely get what you wrote. And the truth is that by the time the MLCer wants to reconnect, the spouse or exspouse is long gone. It happens often. For the reasons you cite..we have leg go and moved forward and we figured out what we want and who we are.
So, I totally understand your mindset. I want you to know that I am not pushing you either way. Thats your decision. I would support you whatever you decide.
I feel as if I have come to know you pretty well. I'm thinking that you need to see this through or you will always wonder. I think you want to try to see if there is any future there.
The feelings you have absolutely have to be sorted through in order to come out of this whole and at peace.
I had to separate the man I knew from the actions he took. I had to remember the love in order to let the hurt go. I had to make a decision to not allow the hurt to control me. I had my own little child to heal.
The more I moved forward, the more confident I got with who I was, the easier it was to do that.
I did have to take a leap of faith....and trust that I would be ok and that letting go of the hurt was what I needed.
It's funny that you mention that "leap of faith" thing. I say it and write it alot...along with "Not my problem". Some of my friends on here have always encouraged me to write a book...and use one of those at the title. LOL!
Well uR like they say .. men are visual creatures ... and it does help me just detach myself from the issues if I can paint them in a way that would make sense and deal with them as such. Just talking it out here does wonders.
Yeah you are right with the "see this through or you will always wonder" remark. Like I told my buddy (Christian and knows the entire sitch ... only commends me for who I am and who I have become... has not judged one way or the other .. true friend here.. even though we talk maybe once a month) I told him all I can do at the end of the day is look at myself in the mirror and say I did all I can.
I do think there can be a future, but that gift of time that I packed up and tried returning about 14 times, seems now I need a new shipment of it, strange how that one worked, one I never thought I would admit to
I have been not having any luck with MC's ... been researching them and like the saying goes .. all the good ones are taken. Thinking about it, it hit me ... W brought up Retrouvaille a few weeks ago, so I decided I would contact them for more information, that email came in today so I forwarded it to W, told her about the MC and how our schedules are difficult and this might just be the better option. Does a few things from my viewpoint, gives her reassurance that I am wanting to move forward and work on the M with her (seems she is nervous here and I can not say I blame her, I am dealing with all these 'boxed' emotions and she is coming to terms with the fog lifting and the damage that has appeared more clearly to her) ... plus it bys some time, time I can keep working, time for her to keep meeting with the priest who is acting as her IC. This may be strange but I just feel God is controlling this and this in my heart is the way to go. I would have found a MC by now if that's what was to happen.
