Zelda - hang me up to dry

[Calibri]

Sorry to hear Z.

I'm kind of in the same boat. I'll either quit my job soon, or get fired one. Need to talk to my H about the situation (as it effects both of us
If my job goes away), who apparently, doesn't want to talk to me as we are on day 10 of NC.

I'm resisting the urge to majorily, majorily lash out.

This is very hard. And I know how the mind blown feels. I wanted to give you. A hug. And commend you on your choice of song. <3

[RealMe]

He doesn't deserve anything from you right now. Not even hate. Because hate is an energy as well- and that would be giving him your energy.

The only person that deserves your energy right now is you, and with all these waves coming in at once your tank is low. What can you do to conserve and even regain energy for the next several days? Anybody you can stay with, or have stay with you? Any place you could go? Any thing out of the ordinary?

You're on fumes and you have to recharge.

[Zues126]

Zelda, I haven't followed your thread since the beginning but I've been impressed with your posts and have been trying to catch up. Tough road.

I read a really interesting article about abuse a few weeks ago and posted on it. It talked about how resentment was the origin of abuse.

Basically when we feel hurt by someone else we can't see past our own pain, and we can lash out at the people we think are hurting us. Maybe it is to try to get them to realize "hey, you're hurting me, stop it!" At it's best it can be communication, at it's worse it is abusive and controlling.

But it all boils down to SKILLS.

Look, here on DB we typically don't believe there are good and bad marriages. That they're either meant to be or not. We believe that there are marriages, and that they can be good or bad depending on the behavior of the couple. A bad M can be turned around by acting differently, the feelings will follow. Marriage isn't a game of LUCK, it is a game of SKILLS.

Same thing with individual behavior. Some people have the SKILLS to communicate pain, some don't. Your STBX isn't an abusive Ahole. Or he may be at the moment, but it isn't some Ahole gene that he inherited. Nor were you wrong about him, and everything he is was a lie. He simply doesn't have the skills to navigate through the pain of your M.

So you have a choice. You can see his post BD behavior and make him the bad guy. Rewrite your own history. Shun him and say you're better off. Be angry that you were stuck with someone so terrible. Heck, why not post a history of his childhood traumas and how you think it gave him psychological problems. Let's all post about what personality disorders he might have. I hate to say it, but I see this a lot on here and I'm not a fan of going down this road.

Or you can see him as the man you loved, who got hurt real bad, and didn't have the skills to deal with it effectively. Yes, it stinks that because you were partnered his ineffectiveness hurt you deeply. But he didn't mean to, he just didn't know a better way. Remember what I said about how when you're hurt it's easy to lash out at the other person? Well, now's your chance to transcend that cycle. Don't stoop to the level of the choice I described above. Your STBX is a good guy in a bad spot. Granted, if he allows those behaviors to become long term habits and lifestyles then it's ok to say you don't want any of that in your life...but do it with compassion for one you loved, not resentment for one that let you down. Please. For your sake.

*I* was in pain during my M and was resentful, responding in controlling and abusive ways for a while. I recognized that's now who I am deep inside, not what I want to be in the future, and that I wanted my next partner to feel the love I had, not a reflection of the pain I felt. Now I think I will bring a lot to the table. SAME PERSON. My STBX gave up on me. We would've had another 40 years together perhaps. But she decided I was a Ahole. Just like so many others.

I think WAS's and LBS's are wearing different shoes, but they both can fall victim to this mindset. It's ok and necessary to go through an anger stage, but please breath deep and decide who you want to be. Which outlook mirrors your spiritual self and deep beliefs? You won't always feel that way initially, but if you keep letting the anger go and praying for compassion, you might not only feel better, it might be a step towards the personal growth you are striving for.

Cheers Z and good to get to know you. Wish it had been over a company potluck but I guess devastating life crises will serve just as well

[Zelda09]

All, thank you for stopping by. I'll get back with you in a second.

I found a letter from six months of dating my H that has absolutely got me sick with the way I stuck my head in the sand, even that early. I wrote him, where I tried to explain how upset/confused I was with chats I'd found on his computer with an 'old friend'. I'd forgotten all about it until tonight. My H was talking/flirting with a woman he knew from home state - their conversation over the course of the SAME month he was starting to talk about marriage with me - and my notes in the original transcript show that he was 'all about' us and spending all kinds of really loving committed time with me during:

H: 'You know A, that kiss in the parking lot wasn't accidental. (I couldn't tell what month it referenced - before we started dating or a month before when he was visiting.)
a: "H, you deserve better than her (me, Z)."
____
"Is Z your ex yet?"
"No, she's going through too much now."
-------
h: "I just wonder about those fish in the sea, would dating more give me more perspective?" (FOR SIX YEARS HE'S HAD THIS IN THE BACK OF HIS MIND - He mentioned it eagerly during BD)
A: "Just keep her guessing. Make her work for you a bit more."
-----------
(a week goes by)
H: I was talking about proposing with her, but I'm not sure."
A: "You know she never did anything nice for you, but relax, it's who you guys are. Sounds like you're both insecure about each other's happiness."
----------------
(a few days letter)
H: she drives me crazy, but I think we could be so happy together. (general complaining about me, but tells A that he rarely mentions the good things about me to her either.) "I never respond to Z's IMs. Idk why. I take two steps back, she takes three toward me and then falls off the planet, it's ridiculous."
(no real response from A.)
-----------------
(week and a half later)
H: "Z wrote me an awesome love note and cleaned my whole place!"
-----------
(five days later)
H: writes general flirty 'hey sunshine' intro and they have light chat. He starts getting rather prying into her bisexual practices. "Come on A, you can tell me, we don't know any of the same people."
A: no, I'd rather not.
H: A, come on...

So, when I talked to H about this six years ago, he minimized everything, said he was just polling her bc my previous 'open' R had made him curious. And I bought it hook line and sinker and though, oh, that makes sense. H professed his love, he didn't mean to hurt me, that stuff about 'is she your ex yet?' was all taken out of context...and I shut the door on it and didn't think about it again. I was so happy to know it meant nothing. In the letter I wrote him about all of this, I quote,

"I worry that this kind of history is repeating itself and I would never know. That when I'm not around you're putting energy into relationships that will only detract from ours."

I shouldn't have let this be a minimal thing I excused because he was incredibly loving with me and I felt those high highs.

Zues, I want to read your post again tomorrow when I'm not all charged up from this recent re-read - but Idk if anymore I can say H was a good guy. I loved him intensely and made a LOT of excuses - from six months in for this ^ B.S. He had his good sides, but I chose to look the other way and pretend his bad sides were my problem or not that big of a deal - well before he was hurt. I don't want to look at things from a sweet and understanding spot, I've been down that road. I just want to be honest now. And I'll agree, we don't need to label him or his traumas to do that, but I am putting my compassionate rose colored glasses down.

Looking forward to getting to know you, also and getting caught up with you. It means a lot that you, Real and Zephyr have put in the time to hang out with me.

Calibri - thanks for checking in. I'm sorry you continue to be aggravated - you know the drill, detach, yeah? (HA I am one to talk)

Real - I am afraid of wearing out my friends and family, honestly. I talk as much as I can to not do so but get some of this out. I'm on the way to a funeral tomorrow morning. I applied for a major org in my city tonight that has some promise in matching job descriptions, slightly up from lateral move.

[Zues126]

Wow. That STINKS. And I think putting things down for 24 hours and revisiting makes sense.

I will tell you a story about my NEAR EA. It was 2011, and we had just had our 3rd child. Our M had been bad for years. I felt so neglected, unappreciated, and lonely. We weren't meeting ANY of each other's needs, emotional or physical. We lived separate lives, and did our own things to endure the isolation. I didn't feel she liked me, admired me, or understood me. I told my friend that I felt single, only I couldn't ever date again and had to pay 100% of my income in child support.

Suddenly I was promoted to manager, and at the age of 31 I had a bunch of 24-28 year olds working for me. Half female. They all looked up to me because I was very good at what I did, the man on campus. I was funny. I was successful. They needed my help to be successful and appreciated what I did for them. One woman on my team seemed to really like me, and that's when it began.

I felt so alive when she came around. When she laughed at my jokes I felt so good about myself. I started looking forward to seeing her every day. I started working out more often and trying to dress better. I acted like "friendly co-workers". Coworkers talk about their weekends, right? Coworkers swap CDs to listen to, right? Hmmm...that was when I knew I was in the red zone. NOTE- I never did or said anything that would have betrayed my thoughts. The woman never even knew. But *I* knew. And I knew it was wrong. But I couldn't snap myself out of it. This went on for 2-3 months.

Finally I felt I needed to take desperate measures. I told my W, my boss, and the female employee the struggle I was having all in the same day. I said I would resign my position if I needed to, do whatever it took, but my M came first, and I couldn't stand by and pretend everything was ok.

Given the situation I still feel I handled it the best I could. I wish I was beyond temptation, but I am human.

How easy would it have been for me to have had a few flirty "harmless" exchanges with her? How easy would it have been for me to sweep it under the table had my W asked me about it?

I don't know. But I tell you this. There's not a man around that's more committed to M. There's not a man around that loved his W more than me. There's not a man around that's more determined to do everything I can to grow stronger. And though at this point I'm almost hopeful my STBX doesn't change her mind because it would be easier to get a "re-do" on finding a partner than trying to deal with the mess we have and accepting that my STBX's shortcomings will always be a part of my life...I still intend to let time pass, and be open to what life brings. Because I believe in M that much.

Yet I'm the same species as your H. I too was tempted. I too have sinned in my heart, and there were almost indubidably moments that would've betrayed that to my STBX that knew me so well. I too have a "personality disorder". I too treated my STBX poorly.

We're all human. That's all I'm saying.

I keep thinking of the book "there are no bad dogs". It says there are poorly trained dogs. There are misunderstood dogs. But there are no "bad dogs".

Listen- men are pigs in some ways, we can be selfish, perverted, and insensitive...but we are also big stupid animals that can be loyal, loving, protective, and devoted.

Yes, people are responsible for their behavior. And at some point you have to set boundaries. Maybe even closing the door to the possibility of R in some situations.

But pay attention to how many LBS's declare they were the victim all along and they are better off without their dud of an WAS.

In conclusion, my idea of a W only a fool would leave would be one that has this view of the men in their lives, that of "He was a good guy, I loved him a lot, it's too bad that man couldn't manage his emotions and act maturely because I have boundaries and can't be treated this way...I guess I have to let go." Those that judge, condemn, resent, and reject with attitude...well, I wouldn't feel safe around those types because I'd feel like I can't win and no matter how hard I try I'm just another dumb guy that would probably end up getting punted at some point.

PS- while my STBX has treated me terribly during the M and since BD, I feel that way towards her. "We're both good people, both had a lot of love, both meant well. I loved her. Hopefully we can both do better going forward, if not at least we know it was real while it lasted and we both cared and tried as long as possible. Too bad we didn't have the tools to make it work, too bad she couldn't find an alternative other than walking. Good luck STBX and take care kid." That comes from my spiritual self. Doesn't mean I want to be friends with her. I have boundaries. But that's how I feel more and more.

[Zues126]

PS- just posted *TWO* posts on Smothy's thread back to back, you might have already read one from a few weeks ago, but please check them out. Thanks!

[Zelda09]

ZuEs, part of my journey now is understanding that there may be "no bad dogs" but if one bites my hand repeatedly, to call it what is, instead of romanticizing it. That I'm not responsible for providing skills to my H when he just wants to blame me and find other women to make him happy.

The difference between what you shared with me is that you cared about your M and stopped before it could go further. That exchange I posted was from the same month my STBX was telling me we'd be together forever, showing a completely different side of his heart to a bartender he'd attempted to hook up with once.

Your W that a fool woulx have to leave - that was me when he came back to me. I told him I understoid he did what made sense to him and I wouldn't let myself be angry about it, they were his choices. And he put in his ring,

Some here on this board don't get to stages of anger or resentment. I'm not going to hold on to it forever but I'm not going to squash it all down and say I don't feel deeply violated and used by someone I trusted.

[Zues126]

Agreed. Validate your feelings. Work through them.

And you're right. If a dog bites your hand you shouldn't try to pet it again unless you have reason to show that it has changed.

But if a dog bit you you probably wouldn't be angry at it.

Trust me...I get it. The betrayal of marital vows to me is the most destructive choice that anyone could make. And when you are that hurt, betrayed, and devastated, it is natural to feel angry at the one that made that decision. My IC says "Anger is just pain transformed into a feeling easier to handle". So yes, this is necessary to deal with an overwhelming amount of emotion.

I guess what I'm saying is just recognize that's what's going on, that you're working through emotions. Don't believe everything they tell you is "true". Your emotions are true. His behavior is destructive, true as well. But carrying that on to "he is a bad guy, I am better off without him, good riddance"...that's where people let their emotions become the boss of them dictating your beliefs and behavior, instead of running their own ship and having their emotions work FOR them by helping them through tough situations and giving you feedback on what works and doesn't.

Wishing you the best, fellow Z.

[Zelda09]

Thank you.
paralegal says he's not returned calls or come back to sign his documents. Wondering if this is a game of chicken to him and he flinched. Or it's just not a big priority to him.

[RealMe]

Stay detached. No R talk. Take care of yourself.

You sound a little stronger today. Is that the case?