In desperate need for help

[Zues126]

I don't have the answer to that Smothy, just wanted to acknowledge that I'm still following. Reading what your H told your BF made me cringe. I'm usually empathetic to my WAW's point of view, but sometimes I have to deal with my own reaction first. And my reaction to hearing this is like "please, you arm chair diagnose yourself with being the victim and me that abuser and the diagnosis is conveniently that you need to jump in the sac with other partners and start drinking and partying? And you're gonna pass it off as you having heard the voice of God?"

Again, I've worked through it for the most part, but I can see how that would leave a bad taste iny our mouth.

Don't worry about showing him the 180s. Those are for YOU. Not for him. If they're for him, then you're still being controlling. Don't try to control his perception. Just control you. In fact, not worrying about whether he sees your 180s is a good 180.

Personally I might not take him up on the offer. I know you want to showcase changes, but who knows if he'll see them or if he'll just pick the one thing you do he doesn't like and cling to that. My motto is if I'm 100% dark then at some point she'll realize she's mad at an illusion, because I'm not there anymore. And maybe she'll be curious about who I really am.

Then again, I'm not expecting that, and I'm at the point that I don't believe we'll ever have a conversation with an emotional connection ever again. I'm ok with that at this point, but whether that's a good thing (detachment) or a bad thing (a failed marriage save in all likelihood) is unclear. I'll call it a good thing because I'm better now than I ever have been in my life, and I am closer with my kids. But I can't say I've pulled off saving a marriage either.

[Pyrite]

hi Smothy, i'll also defer to more experienced posters but I absolutely agree with Zeus:

Don't worry about showing him the 180s. Those are for YOU. Not for him. If they're for him, then you're still being controlling. Don't try to control his perception. Just control you. In fact, not worrying about whether he sees your 180s is a good 180.

good? I think it is possibly the best 180 you could hope for. to REALLY not even care if he knows you dont care. I say "care" but that isn't exactly what I mean. It follows the vibe of one of my favourite quotes from a poster here, I think it was Toots (sorry if I got it wrong) who said "being open to reconciliation is NOT the same as waiting." In other words you are not opposed to the idea, you are actually open to the idea, you're just not waiting for it to be presented by the WAS, and you are certainly not going to chase it.

Putting myself in your shoes I would be very very tempted to do it. And in the absence of advice to the contrary I would convince myself that it would be unwise to outright reject the offer. However, objectively, I can see how Zeus' prediction could easily happen. He has already made up his mind about what he is going to see. And a perhaps harsher criticism, from your toing and froing, I dont get the impression you have done a 180 on him. As in the above quote. I am not saying that I have achieved this myself, but alone in car on the way home from the airport after a 6 month trip and BD in the middle. That is hardcore and I think would require a genuine 180 and near complete detachment to pull off a masterful performance, which is ultimately what you want. So it could be really bad and put you back a long way. It could also turn out really well - so please wait for more experienced DBers to advise.

[Smothy]

Pyrite, you are right. I haven't done a 180 on him. I still obsess and harbour hopes of a R. I took your advice and forced myself not to look at his profile on FB so far two days. Small steps. I know I will be Ok without H but I love him deeply.

I have worked on my 180 re my behaviours which were negative towards others not just H. I have listed all those things I need to do with small goals of how to do them which has been very helpful.

I made a list of what I have yesterday rather than focusing on what I want and was pleased with how that list is helping me work towards a big goal of travel later this year. This is one of the reasons I took on my new job abroad.

I am Face timing son later today and H and I usually talk. Do you think I should just talk to S and not H?

[Smothy]

Zues, that's was how I felt when she told me. Part of me felt she helped him to find the answer.

He called her first before he came and told me he wanted to D after being with the OW for the day.

That day, I did needle him about what he was doing with OW etc. I should of left it alone but my anxiety was sky high that evening.

[Bob723]

I am Face timing son later today and H and I usually talk. Do you think I should just talk to S and not H?

Hello Smothy,

I've been trying to catch up on your situation. I am so sorry you're going through all this. I think you should just speak with your S. By not speaking to your H, that would be a 180, correct?

Please try to take things one day at a time. That and the wonderful, caring, loving people on this forum is what keeps me sane.

Take care -

Bob

[Smothy]

Thank you, Bob723.

Last time I spoke to Laurie, my DB coach, she advised I should try to instigate an upbeat conversation. However, there has been some changes since she gave me this advice. H has now removed me from FB and said he no longer wants to go to the concert or holiday together as it was not the right thing to do. These were still in the pipeline and advice related to the these.

We booked them in October. Ironically, to help us reconnect, when I come back, after my contract ends.

Conversation with H does not always end well as I try to find out whether he is seeing OW, dating etc. I even put it on a post it note not to ask and I still can not STFU about it :-(

[Pyrite]

Unfortunately I can't advise you really. Check out my thread - I'm a mess. I can only tell you what HAS WORKED FOR ME IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS AND WHAT I know I should be doing in similar situations that I have to those you describe. I can hear Cadet saying to me though - is there anything you NEED to speak to him about. If not, then maybe ask yourself why you would even consider it. I know what my answer is, and probably yyours, because I love her and miss her and went to show her that I am trying etc. But what we are really aiming for is to NOT require their approval to know and feel it is the right thing to do and that it is enough to approve ourselves. Thats what got us into this mess - controlling. That said - if you read my last post I think it is fairly obvious that I dont have a firm grip on this at all.

[Smothy]

You are right, Pyrite. I pretend that I am but inside I am desperate for him to contact me and vice versa. Just to show that I meant something to him rather than this person that rejected me so easily.

[Pyrite]

That said - if you read my last post I think it is fairly obvious that I dont have a firm grip on this at all.

Just to clarify - i meant last post on my thread.

rejected me so easily

you are assuming it was easy. The one and only visit to a MC that we had (which was over in 5 minutes), the MC said that W has been suffering moderate stress/depression/grief for a long time, where as for me BD sent my stress rocketing. I objected to this because in my case I had been depressed for 3.5 years, at one stage suicidal. But you get my point anyway i am guessing.

Also, in my case, W has always been angry about this, but in recent weeks she seems out of control. I have seen her twice in the past week, following a gap of ~3 months. In recent weeks I have effectively gone dark, certainly relative to what I was I am pitch black. She seems conflicted and very stressed. She repeatedly commented about how much I stressed her out, which is odd because I didn't appear to stress her out so much until I was absent from the picture.

I suspect in your case things will change for him when you are in closer proximity as well.

My friends mother died. He is reeling in grief. Very similar to the rollercoaster I have been on. The difference is that you are free to love the person that died. Yo are free to cherish the memories. My W has resorted to telling everyone that our R was toxic for several years and she had to escape. I am really hurt by the description "toxic". It makes it very hard for me to cherish those memories when she is just making a mockery of them. She only started describing the R as toxic after I uncovered her affair and revealed it to others.

Another indication that it is not EASY for her? She is going to these lengths to justify herself (to herself?).

You already know that it is a waste of your time being desperate, and even thinking about how easy/hard it was for him. I dont know how you get past this exactly, I just know that it becomes a lot easier every day that you detach a little more. And I stress again, it is not because you dont care anymore, it is because you can see it more objectively. Like an out of body experience almost. Happening to someone else, but you are privy to all the emotional detail. You just dont drown in it. Then maybe the idea is that you can start being constructive.

[Zues126]

I think a big part of detaching is not putting so much weight on the narrative of your ex. By narrative I mean the story they are telling themselves, their version of what happened, what's happening, and why.

In their narrative they rewrite history and make the LBS an abusive, neglectful, insensitive, manipulative, oppressive villain.

In their narrative they had to leave the M to have a chance at happiness.

In their narrative their own bad behavior is the fault of the LBS because it was their only response to what was done to them.

And...years after the D, will they admit that they were wrong, that they had some ownership of the issues in the M, that the M could've been saved for a better outcome for the entire family? While it's possible, it's also very likely that they won't, because in their mind they will sense that it is too late and that would only make them feel bad. Bad about themselves, and bad about what they've done. So it's likely their narrative will continue that they did what was best, and that the happiness they find in their lives is due to their decisions, and the grief is still due to the LBS.

Now, that's not saying that couldn't change. But you can't control the stories the WAS tells themselves. And it will drive you INSANE to try, or to put much stock in it.

Instead, you need to own your OWN narrative.

Some people tell themselves they are a victim, that their WAS is to blame for not trying to communicate better, to remain committed, or to work it out.

Some people tell themselves their WAS was the villain, that they were in fact the bad guy, that while they made mistakes the WAS was responsible and had "personality disorders", etc, that they are better off without the WAS.

Some people tell themselves their WAS's narrative is 100% correct, believing that if they go along with everything it will somehow bring the WAS back.

The danger with the last belief is that if you allow the WAS's narrative to control your self worth, well...you will be in for a lot of pain, because as I said, it's unlikely they will see much value in you at this point.

Instead I recommend a narrative in which you see yourself as a wonderful human with flaws. One that deserves to be treated with respect. One that deserves a loving and committed partner, a partner that won't abandon them or script them as the bad guy. But also one that has made mistakes, that can forgive their WAS for their mistakes, one that has room and need to grow. And part of that growth is telling ourselves a balanced and effective story of who we are, how we got here, and how we will move forward. And part of that growth is letting go of your WAS's control over your view of your reality.

That is how we achieve detachment, feelings of self worth, acceptance, yet still grow from our experiences. That's all we can do. Whether someone else values what we offer or not, don't let that for a second dictate that your self worth.

In fact, oftentimes it was our inability to value ourselves and our dependence on our partner to show us their love to make up for our own inner self loathing that put such a strain on the M. So taking control of your own self care is often the biggest area of self growth to focus on. Most of the controlling, abusive, addictive behavior stems from our inability to find value in who we are, so we have to control our partners to act in a way that makes us feel better, or to medicate somehow to avoid those bad feelings.

How do you learn self care when you've looked to someone else to take care of you for so long? That's why I keep referring people to my old threads. It's been something I've been working on for 10 months now. I'm not "all better", I'm not the H only a fool would leave. But I've come a heck of a long ways and feel better about who I am. This makes my life more enjoyable, and I know it would take a lot of pressure off my partner if I were in an M.