Get married they said .. It'll be fun they said

[CaliGuy]

uR ... I have absolutely no doubt that He leads us to certain people as well as leads them to us ... thank you for being there for me.

Yeah, I had to chuckle as the W has always had a problem with letting things go, she would ask often how to get past something and of course 'Mr Fix-it' had the answers .... here I am holding onto something that would do me absolutely no good regardless of the M, oh the irony. :P

So just a few "Me" things. Couple days ago I got a call from the individual who runs that RCIA program I am in (And nearly completed with) and he wanted to ask me something, he thought of me right away and would like me to share my "Faith Story" with the group ... typically this has been done here and there but usually by sponsors or guest speakers ... I was floored but something inside of me has known for awhile my story might help someone else who is having problems and I would be asked to share it .. not only with a M, but talking personally lost and so far away. For those confused .. the Faith Story is how one found God and decided to open themselves up to Him and just allow Him to take over. Not that my story is any better than someone elses ... I do come from a much different place than most so I am both excited and terrified to share, but I do think it will be a very profound growth step for me to do .... completely airing my dirt to all and showing them its not to late nor is anyone totally lost.

Thing #2 ... and I am just Jacked up on PMA today. I finally finished fixing the Harley!!!:D. For those new to my Sitch, I bought myself the Harley (Yes I got a few 'He is in MLC' remarks ... made me literally crack up and laugh) back in Aug ... part of my 180/PMA/GAL ... something I always wanted, was afraid to do because of how W would react, so I stepped up and finally just went out and did something for myself. Well in Feb I had a little accident, was sore for a good month, and then realized it was going to take about $2000 to fix ... or ... yup... *Cue Spicoli's voice* "I've got an awesome set of tools I can fix it". Was more an issue of getting time ... but after maybe $100 and about 5 hours, she is sitting outside and I am riding her to my softball game tonight ... seriously excited.

W has been TM through the day, she has S at work and he seems to be doing well, she is not feeling well due to the outbreak ... strange thing is she is sharing with me the effects it has on her ... she has had this for a year now, but she is actually openly sharing how it drains her and tells me she gets a little grump making sure I know its that and nothing I did. Improvement from the past months/years in that area.

[LouR]

Hey Cali, been lurking around your sitch watching it unfold.

Congrats and yeay to your Harley being back on the road - Well Done you :o) So clever .... enjoy your ride, I bet it feels such a huge sense of acheievement .... So so happy for you.

Sharing your story with others is a gift, its a tale of strength, faith and courage; to never to give up on yourself. Your story will touch others and the cycle of love and hope will continue. This is how god shares his message, through his followers. I commend you Cali for opening yourself up for others, you have grown so much and you should be so very proud of yourself.

[AJM]

Just a couple of things that you may not want to lose sight of, amigo.

The thing is that if you don’t get to the root of those things...they come with you

Forgiveness Means Giving Up All Hope for a Better Past

Its not like I want to punish her, and I realize there is nothing she can do to take it away. The past is the past and I really do not want to live there.

Those are golden. But I wonder if you really meant that last part? Really felt it all over? Or if maybe, just maybe there's a little bit of you that wants to?

Forgiveness starts with being asked for it. Really meaning that the other person wants forgiveness. A little disorienting when in that position after so long in a different position to be sure. Many have been there (I haven't, but I can imagine )

When people say the old marriage is dead and gone... I think you're starting to see that, no? Yesterday is dead and gone. In the can. Finito. But here and now? It's right here.

Forgiving both of you for your part? Forgiving you? Sounds like it still needs to be done as part of this.

And I think you have a good perspective, for what it's worth. And fantastic advice to navigate. But keep in mind no matter what happens you'll need to forgive you and her. That's unavoidable for Cali 2.0 and in his world of faith. While you're thinking about things, keep in mind what you've been forgiven for. Forget the rest for now. Forgive you. Clear that off your plate of things to do, and then tackle the next item.

And keep an eye on your S. Sounds like he benefits from your reassurances and being able to articulate what he's feeling. That's absolutely platinum in all of this. Don't lose sight of that.

And don't be too hard on yourself overall. It's not easy surfing these waves. If anyone can do it though, it's you.

AJ

[CaliGuy]

LouR.. Thank you for your kind words

AJ

Just a couple of things that you may not want to lose sight of, amigo. Those are golden. But I wonder if you really meant that last part? Really felt it all over? Or if maybe, just maybe there's a little bit of you that wants to?

I really don't .. atleast the 2.0 version doesn't ... that hurt little boy?... sure there are times he wants that .. but thats not what I want nor who I am anymore. Alone or M .. I really can not undo the past .... will I ever forget about it .. hardly .. I have accepted that too. There will be triggers that will take me there throughout my life I am sure, I will most likely have some backslides .. again .. I accept this is all part of the process but I feel stronger behind the wheel just accepting this is how to continue to grow. [/quote]

Forgiveness starts with being asked for it. Really meaning that the other person wants forgiveness. A little disorienting when in that position after so long in a different position to be sure. Many have been there (I haven't, but I can imagine )

I agree with you here ... but I think my W is still coming to grips with her own hurts, and peeking at the destruction that happened while she was in LaLa land. At this point seems she has more of a "I do not deserve forgiveness / He will never forgive me" type approach. I have been careful not to throw it in her face as much as the pain surfaced as of late. But there are issues surfacing with S that are clear reminders for her that it was not just me who was hurt out of all this. [/quote]

When people say the old marriage is dead and gone... I think you're starting to see that, no? Yesterday is dead and gone. In the can. Finito. But here and now? It's right here.

Oh I totally see that, I think the misconception surrounded the fantasy that the LBS would hold true and be the same person, and when/if the MLC'r comes out they would return to be the same person .. and understandably enter back into the same marriage. Truth is ... They both change so much that there is no possible way that M would not change along with them. I would compare it to having a '67 Mustang ... driving along one day with your spouse and you lose control and wrap it around a tree. You both have to go through extensive physical therapy ... you heal, but you are different, both might be a bit scared of getting back into that car again ... however its not the same ol '67 .. its a new 2015 .. you long for that old '67 but its gone, still a great car .. but this 2015 has so much potential, a chance for new memories to be made .... getting in and back on the road seems to be the tricky part right now. [/quote]

Forgiving both of you for your part? Forgiving you? Sounds like it still needs to be done as part of this.

And I think you have a good perspective, for what it's worth. And fantastic advice to navigate. But keep in mind no matter what happens you'll need to forgive you and her. That's unavoidable for Cali 2.0 and in his world of faith. While you're thinking about things, keep in mind what you've been forgiven for. Forget the rest for now. Forgive you. Clear that off your plate of things to do, and then tackle the next item.

And keep an eye on your S. Sounds like he benefits from your reassurances and being able to articulate what he's feeling. That's absolutely platinum in all of this. Don't lose sight of that.

And don't be too hard on yourself overall. It's not easy surfing these waves. If anyone can do it though, it's you.

AJ

Wise words as always AJ ... thank you. Yeah I think I still have some of that hindsight 20/20 guilt stuff, I have owned my share, That Fixer in me still is convinced I could have done better and maybe she would not have ever went so far off the tracks, not been hurt to the extent she has ... I know I know .. this would have happened anyways, but that is still there and still something I am working on dealing with little by little.

And right now .. M and W are not my top concern .. S is. Even more so as it seems he is acting out with W quite a bit, I am torn between letting them have it out .. .or gently nudging and getting S into IC.

[CaliGuy]

Little update

W TM this morning that S was being difficult, again not wanting to get up, go to school, bad mood .. etc. She asked me via TM "How can we change that?" I replied that she should try a new approach, try to make things fun. S shared how she can be quite bossy .. I get that .. she is that way .. but I do think there are some other thaings at play here, I do think S has issues with W, trust, the fact he knows about OM and I am not so sure that has been put to rest for him ... I think W feels she hid it well enough ... though she did'nt... that she should not have to earn S's trust nor work on the R between them. She then asks me what I think 'we' should do and its a tough spot to be in. Lately she has been using the "I want you to take the initiative, be a man, I always had to do everything in our M, its your turn" type approaches ... while there is some truth to all this I do not think she truly wants me to take charge as when I do those decisions seem to be second guessed and disguarded the moment I do them.

I called her to discuss this .. she thinks she needs to resort to spanking him, I told her I was born and raised into that kind of child upbringing but I honestly do not think that would help the issue, if anything I felt it would only drive a bigger wedge into the R between them. I struggle here, I do not feel its my job to fix the R between S and W, however when she says something like that I feel I must voice my opinion and protect S, again she senses that and feels its her against S and I.

So the call ended with her hanging up on me, a few mild spew TM later .. I have not responded at all nor intend to, my boundary is she will not treat me like crap as she did .. .especially over a situation she created ... expects me to clean it up and do all the work. No thanks .. I will just focus on work and the rainy day we have here ... nice and different, never thought I would enjoy a cloudy rainy day as much as I have today.

So ... With S I do think IC would be good for him, but I am concerned at the continued erosion of the R between him and W. She is very difficult lately, like she tries to sabotage everything just to make sure she is bitter and alone, only to find herself alone, become humble and cry for help ... rinse and repeat. She really needs help but will not get it for herself, its truly a shame but there is nothing I can do, nor force on her.

[uRworthy]

Hmm, I am not going to say that I disagree with AJ because I honestly cannot remember a time when I have.

I am going to say that I feel that forgiveness was for me. I have no idea if my xh knows I have, although I think he may.

For me, it was not about him asking for it. Didnt matter to me whether he did or not. I was still going to do what I knew in my heart was the best thing for me. It was to allow me to move forward, to let go of the bad feelings and to open my heart.

My xh never asked for it and that is ok. That's for him to figure out. As I have written before, it allowed me to let go of expecting something different.

I worked towards it by remembering he was in crisis and remembering that he did the best he could. He loved me once a great deal in the best way he knew how. Forgiving him honored that relationship.

[uRworthy]

Reconnection is fuuuuunnnn...um,not!!!

Yea, fine line you walk here, Luke, yea?

First of all, yep, on the boundaries of being treated disrespectfully.

Second, I really think IC would be a great thing for your son. In fact, really necessary.

As far as getting in the middle of their relationship, nope, not a good thing at all.

When he is with her, she has to figure it out. You jumped in with solutions. Gotta turn that around. Listen, validate, allow her to figure it out. Not your job, man.

Although with the spanking issue, I dont blame you. That does not solve anything and only serves to erode their self confidence.

You can hop off the ride when you need to, Luke.

I feel for you, my friend. This is really hard.

[mleigh4]

That's a tough one with your S. Mine was giving H a hard time with packing his lunches. H asked some ideas from me, which I gave. But I also talked to S about helping daddy with lunch ideas and reminded him that packing lunches was new for daddy, that he may need some help.

The need to coparent is necessary, no matter which direction this goes. IMO, it wouldn't hurt to talk with S, find out why he is giving mom a hard time in the mornings, and encourage him to follow her rules. It helped me to look up information on co- parenting. It's tough on the kids to be in 2 different environments with 2 different rules. It's important S knows you are united as parents to him and that you back W with the rules in her house.

Good luck

[CaliGuy]

That's a tough one with your S. Mine was giving H a hard time with packing his lunches. H asked some ideas from me, which I gave. But I also talked to S about helping daddy with lunch ideas and reminded him that packing lunches was new for daddy, that he may need some help.

The need to coparent is necessary, no matter which direction this goes. IMO, it wouldn't hurt to talk with S, find out why he is giving mom a hard time in the mornings, and encourage him to follow her rules. It helped me to look up information on co- parenting. It's tough on the kids to be in 2 different environments with 2 different rules. It's important S knows you are united as parents to him and that you back W with the rules in her house.

Good luck

I think that is the issue .. 2 totally different parenting styles.

For example:
My Place: Mornings S and I wake at the same time, normally this is done via tickle ... making sure he is up and might be wrestle match or whatever I need to do to get him out of bed ... he knows its coming and 'dreads' it but is laughing the whole time. He knows there is no TV, no breakfast...no nothing... until he has brushed his teeth, combed his hair and dressed. Then Breakfast, once he has eaten then he can watch TV until it is time for us to go. Lately he wakes before the alarm, and has been dressed eating a bowl of cereal just as I am waking up to go wake him, I told him how proud I was and made a big deal about it .. this has happened every day since making getting out the door so easy.

Her Place: According to W and S...She wakes, will go in his room and tell him to get up, will have to continue to do this until he finally wakes up. He brushes then watches TV as he eats breakfast, W will get frustrated/stressed as time is running out and he still needs to get dressed. They finally are ready and according to W are constantly scrambling to get out the door on time and to school without a tardy.

I can see S's frustration and not wanting to go to school with mornings starting out that way, I can also see W's frustration and the stress from always having to stay on S to get going .. however I have voiced several times I do not allow any distractions till everything is done .. even with chores, once everything is done .. then sure lets have fun, just MY way .. not that its right or wrong .. nor is hers, but I'm not the one frustrated with S either. Again ... I do think S has some issues with W and the MLC fallout, but I can not really bring that up nor want to .. was hoping W gets it and would start rebuilding that R between her and S but seems to want me involved on that ... no thanks.

I have contacted the Mental Heath Care through the insurance and they sent me 40 or so therapists in the area .. now time to make some calls and get one scheduled on one of the 'free' nights ... not many of those anymore...lol

[AJM]

Yeah, Ur, I know what you're saying. I really do.

I am going to say that I feel that forgiveness was for me. I have no idea if my xh knows I have, although I think he may.

I differentiate between forgiveness of the past and letting it go. I don't believe you can truly forgive until you're asked to do so. Seems a nit to differentiate those. I let go for me. Oh believe me, I had to else it would have killed me. I just don't carry anger well.
But forgiveness looks different to me. And it's something I was asked specifically not to give.

Release. Yes. Forgive, can't be done in my opinion. One is for me and me alone and the other is for her.

Maybe semantics, or maybe I am missing something.

Cali, for your son? He's *supposed* to test his parents. At least, that's how it's been done for generations upon generations. He's not likely to do it differently.
A young man who is angry? Sure. A young man who can smell guilt and can take advantage of it to "punish" his mom? Say it ain't so. A young man who is scared and misses his mom and is hurt and will take "control"?

A therapist might be helpful for him, but choose carefully. They are not all the same. And your W is the one that needs it to regain her confidence etc. Or gain it as the case may be. He'll assert his dominance until he finishes collecting his pound of flesh and until he's satisfied she's his "mom" and has his back. No amount of counselling will change that, amigo. Not for him anyway. He's got too much invested and he's too smart.

AJ