Trying to Follow DB & DR (2)

[Miman2]

So you still have everything in your houses just the way it was when your spouse left???

Just waiting for them to come and get it?

You kept all the food in the fridge for 3 years just waiting for her to come back??

How'd you get it to last that long??

It was going to be thrown away because I had no intention of eating it. It wasn't rubbish.

I could've just as well donated to a food bank.

[rd500]

Hi. Sorry this is happening to you. I know you feel really bad and are struggling with your sitchs but people on here are trying to advise you and help you with your interactions with your W This is your life , what you decide to do is up to you. My advise would be to listen and learn The vets on this forum have seen It all and most have lived through the pain with different outcomes.

take care Rd

[Miman2]

Thanks rd500.

I admitted I was initially controlling.

To me it seems that in this specific sitch I am:
controlling because I didn't let her take something and
controlling because I did let her take something

So I'm a double winner of the control prize! yay!

What I'm still waiting for is actual advice...
How does one NOT be controlling in this situation.

By not being there? I close my eyes and let whatever happen, right?
But then I'm "letting" her do whatever and so I'm controlling again.

[Mozza]

To me, what was controlling was asking her how she would watch the movies, as a reason not to take them. You can buy a DVD player for 40$ nowadays, probably less. Someone could donate her one, etc. It's ok to keep your stuff, but it's not ok to oversee what she will do with what she takes away. If she owns two legs of a chair, let her take them without question.

Minman2, you know none of us have all the stuff in our houses like when our spouses left. You're not asking an honest question, you're upset and you're not trying to understand. I get it, MrBond especially can be quite harsh -- he was on me as well when I arrived here. You take what you want, but make sure that you make an honest effort to understand first. This is not argument: none of us know each other in real life and the only reason we come here out of our personal time is to help each other out. The main beneficiary is you: take this opportunity to learn and get better at your sitch. No need to get upset at the posters on your thread; it's energy wasted for you at a moment when you need all you have.

Also, be very careful of the covert contracts (NMMNG): if you want something, ask for it. If you give something, do it because you want to, don't expect anything in return.

Maybe take a few hours or days to cool off and reflect, reread the feedback you got. I know none of this is easy. It isn't for any of us.

[MrBond]

"So you still have everything in your houses just the way it was when your spouse left???
Just waiting for them to come and get it?"

Actually for some things, yes.

"You kept all the food in the fridge for 3 years just waiting for her to come back??
How'd you get it to last that long??"

"It was going to be thrown away because I had no intention of eating it. It wasn't rubbish. "

Ummm do you see what you just did there? You were going to throw it away and yet you don't call it rubbish.

"I could've just as well donated to a food bank.""

"But you didn't and you had no intention to do so. Stick to the facts."

Bottom line is that you can debate all you want, but if all of us here interpreted it differently than from what you intended, it was probably something you should learn from. Just saying.

And Mozza is right. I'm a straight shooter when it comes to this stuff. The people who used to keep me on track the same way was sandi and 25yrsmlc. it wasn't until I stopped taking things personally and actually listened to what I "perceived" as their harsh comment, that I began to really change. They pointed out things that I didn't or didn't want to acknowledge.

[Zelda09]

Miman,

My H wanted novels he never read, and I let him take them, knowing full well how he tired war and peace around on a beach vacation when we first started dating to impress me. It took up more space in the carry on than anything else and the cover was never cracked.

I kept my thoughts to myself at the time and helped him load his other things.

You lose some battles for the sake of the war, and whatever dignity (anti-pettiness) you may be able to hold onto. If you were firm on your stance earlier about the big picture, doesn't that allow you to be kind in the matters that don't matter? If you want her back, kind and considerate where it doesn't cost you, firm in places that you need to protect your boundaries. Kindness is never weakness, the opposite I think.

Honestly, I was a bit worn out with all the back and forth on the lunch/dinner date you described. She was trying and it seemed you blocked her at every turn out of resentment for old texts that went unreturned?

Your feelings of anger are valid, goodness knows I'm angry and not in a great position to offer advice. But MWD wrote every action moves you closer to goal (which is what for you in next week?)or away, so perhaps an important consideration as you look your next encounter.

On the bright side, she stayed longer than it seems she had to and was pursuing you a bit, no?

[Squiggy]

I just got caught up on you Miman, and I have to agree with the others that ARE giving you ADVICE. As Zelda just mentioned, all the emotions you are feeling, and keep in mind that we all have felt them, are valid. That being said...What are you doing to work on them? I mean honestly work on them. I saw you justifying your actions, when it sounds like you were fitting into your old script, only slightly altered.

The thing that is most beneficial to remember is that DB is a twofold path. Obviously we come here because we want to win our spouses back. At the same time, this is about bettering ourselves for now and the future. Think on this. Own this. Remember this.

In your recent interactions, I saw anger and resentment. Half the time it sounded like you were in a battle. How is that attractive? How does that move you forward? Did it work? Or is it a cheeseless tunnel?

I see that you've been trying to do so, and yet you need to find better ways to channel that anger. Replace the anger emptiness with joy. In my sitch I have pushed myself so far into becoming a better father that my child glows when he sees me. I am starting a new job on Monday that will be less stress and gets me back to my roots of helping families directly (I'm in the biz like your wife).

Instead of battling, pick and choose them. Those are boundaries. Read Wonka's boundaries cheat sheet and apply it. What do you really want to save? What is part of the above battles? Where are YOUR non-negotiables? Pick the few that really are boundaries and stick with them.

Finally, since I've ranted much more than I normally do, recognize what moves you forward and what doesn't (reflecting zelda). From what you've written, every time you pull away and don't turn something into a battle, your WW responds in a positive way. Attract her, don't push (yes, the hardest part), and don't lash out.

[Miman2]

First of all I would like to think everyone for their contributions/advice.
I would also like to say that there are differences in how advice is delivered and received.
I believe that to be the most help advice should be constructive.

Yes I know all of the LL and the His Needs/Her Needs, and practically every M practice and term out there. Been doing this for awhile.

So stop me if you've heard this one...

Constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one.

The purpose of constructive criticism is to improve the outcome. In collaborative work, this kind of criticism is a valuable tool in raising and maintaining performance standards.

Constructive criticism must always focus on the work rather than the person.
Personality issues must always be avoided.
Constructive criticism is more likely to be embraced if the criticism is timely, clear, specific, detailed and actionable.

There's not much we can do about the timeliness really.
Such is the nature of a forum.
As for the other points...


Not constructive: unclear, not specific, not detailed, not actionable, focusing on personality

If you have that many questions on what to do, your best bet would be to not be there when she comes over.

You still haven't worked on your control issues have you? If they were hers, they're hers. You really have no right to ask how she was going to view them. You don't own her. She's not a slave or a child that needs to seek your approval.
This is what got you here in the first place and it seems like that problem isn't going away in you.

Things like this was absolutely childish.

It makes you come off as petty.

Very condescending, in my opinion.

Ummm do you see what you just did there?

But you didn't and you had no intention to do so.

Constructive: clear, specific, detailed, actionable

If it upsets you so much to see her posts and you can't resist checking, you should either unfriend her or block her news feed.

My thoughts are that you're still thinking too much about your W. Regardless of what you believe true love to mean, etc. She's still gone. Turn that introspection back onto yourself and your values and what you are going to do to continue to grow.

You handled it well. Next time tell her that you're out and you'll have to get back to her later. Show her that you have a life.

It isn't the "nice" gestures that are going to get you to D. It's the controlling ones.
They don't cancel each other out.

To me, what was controlling was asking her how she would watch the movies, as a reason not to take them. It's ok to keep your stuff, but it's not ok to oversee what she will do with what she takes away. If she owns two legs of a chair, let her take them without question.

all of us here interpreted it differently than from what you intended

If you want her back, [be] kind and considerate where it doesn't cost you, [and] firm in places that you need to protect your boundaries. Kindness is never weakness, the opposite I think.

Your feelings of anger are valid, goodness knows I'm angry and not in a great position to offer advice. But MWD wrote every action moves you closer to goal (which is what for you in next week?)or away, so perhaps an important consideration as you look your next encounter.

On the bright side, she stayed longer than it seems she had to and was pursuing you a bit, no?

all the emotions you are feeling, and keep in mind that we all have felt them, are valid. That being said...What are you doing to work on them?

Instead of battling, pick and choose them. Those are boundaries. Read Wonka's boundaries cheat sheet and apply it. What do you really want to save? What is part of the above battles? Where are YOUR non-negotiables? Pick the few that really are boundaries and stick with them.

Finally, since I've ranted much more than I normally do, recognize what moves you forward and what doesn't (reflecting zelda). From what you've written, every time you pull away and don't turn something into a battle, your WW responds in a positive way. Attract her, don't push (yes, the hardest part), and don't lash out.

So I would like to thank everyone who contributed constructive and elegantly stated advice.
This is the kind of advice that I have been seeking and you have given me plenty to think about.

I mentioned there was food I didn't want and she could have.

"I could've just as well donated to a food bank.""

"But you didn't and you had no intention to do so. Stick to the facts."

This was an assumption on your part, and an incorrect one at that.
Since you've been doing this for a while, I take it you know what happens when you assume.

"You kept all the food in the fridge for 3 years just waiting for her to come back??
How'd you get it to last that long??"

"It was going to be thrown away because I had no intention of eating it. It wasn't rubbish. "

Ummm do you see what you just did there? You were going to throw it away and yet you don't call it rubbish.

I did see what you did there.
You avoided the question.
Yes, it is a legitimate question.
I'm trying to understand the nature of control, so I can change.
So I asked the vets for examples of how not to be in control of a situation like this.

So let me rephrase the question.

You still haven't worked on your control issues have you?

But you "allowed" her to take them. Still control.

"So you still have everything in your houses just the way it was when your spouse left???
Just waiting for them to come and get it?"

Actually for some things, yes.

How long do I wait before I throw stuff out?
How long did you wait before you threw stuff out?
Did you throw things out or "allow" her come and get stuff?
If you "allowed" her to come get stuff isn't that control?
If you throw things out isn't that a control as well?

Allowing her to take it (controlling the fact that she has it) and throwing it out (controlling the fact that she doesn't have it) are two sides of the same control coin.

Its easy to throw around accusations of control, barking at people to change. Straight shooter or not.

Watch:

"So you still have everything in your houses just the way it was when your spouse left???
Just waiting for them to come and get it?"

Actually for some things, yes.

"some things huh? That's control! You controlled WHICH things were an option of her to have. Haven't you already worked on changing? You should know better. How do you fail to grasp the concept? You have no right to decide what she can and can't have."

How is that helpful? How is that advice?
All it does is raise the red flag on control issues being present.
There's nothing about what to actually do about them.
Inherently that is not advice!
It's not much more than nagging...
Hmm where did I read somewhere about nagging not being effective... (DR pg. 39)
I mean Teddy said it, right?

“Complaining about a problem without posing a solution is called whining.”
– Teddy Roosevelt

Someone telling the captain of the Titanic "your boat is sinking" is not giving advice...

I don't know.
Maybe I'm WAY off base here, maybe I'm butthurt (urbandictionary it) about the situation.
But maybe, just MAYBE there's a better way to go about actually giving useful advice.

If you don't have any useful advice, that's fine too.
You can leave a commiseration note, or point out places you think I could be misunderstood or misinterpreted, ask questions about places in the conversation you think I should probably reconsider and view from another viewpoint. Any of that works for me!


Anyway I'll step down from my soapbox for a bit so I can let the chit fly my way.

Do your worst.

[MrBond]

That was an interesting breakdown. One thing stood out though...

You asked... ""So you still have everything in your houses just the way it was when your spouse left??? Just waiting for them to come and get it?"

I answered... "Actually for some things, yes."

And for some reason you responded with ... ""some things huh? That's control! You controlled WHICH things were an option of her to have. "

I did not say that I didn't allow her to have or not to have items from the home. You just asked if I had things in the house still after my spouse left. And I did. She could have taken them if she wanted to. No big deal. No expectations. No control.

And that sums up the problem of that rather large post you just put up. You don't seem to understand what everyone is telling you. You insist on "constructive" criticism when if you would bother to really try to understand what everyone is saying in their own way, it's all constructive. Yet you want to CONTROL the way people talk to you. We are only allowed to talk to you a certain way or in a way that suits your needs as you see fit. Sorry it doesn't work that way.

First off, the advice you are getting is FREE. Some have saved their M's, some have not. But everyone is speaking from their own life experiences. It's freely given and you have the CHOICE to listen or not.

Second, we are all taking time out of our day to post to you. If you haven't noticed the sheer volume of people daily asking for help, you are actually pretty lucky to have the advice that you are given.

You can continue to debate and argue about the kind of advice you're getting on here, but all that does is take away time that you could be using to learn and actually save your M. Some of the best advice I've ever received here were the ones that I disagreed with the most.

Control seems to be a central theme in your sitch. You have a choice to believe it or not, but that's how it looks like from the outside looking in. But again, that's just my OPINION and the OPINIONS of the other posters.

[rd500]

Hi. Your life , your choices I have had two vets comment on my sitch in 6 months and Mr bond tells it straight. if you listen, read the books and read others sitch then you have a road to follow to help guide you through this terrible time

You can do it your way and it may work out and your M could last forever Most outcomes result from a system or guide. This forum is such a guide. I personally DB to a point and follow my L/Cs advice and Ithen I TRY to do what works

It's tough Your call whatever you decide ,I wish you well. Take care. Rd