The other night when I found the email from the OM, W seemed rather distressed, and I was assuming she was working through getting over OM, so she got space. I was getting S3 to bed. I came out, W was already in bed before I could speak to her about her friend. I did ask what was wrong, she responded "I feel terrible." I asked about what. Silence. Asked again, and more silence. I just said, "OK" and left assuming it was her continuing to get over OM.
Yesterday, find out W sends an email to OM, letting him know how horrible she felt and that she was hoping for a response from him. Great. Another email out from her a little later, claiming she had found his first email and mentioned some interesting things along the lines of her being forced to, she wanted to be with him. Wonderful...completely negates the NC letter. However, in the end she says that she cannot, even though her friend was actually encouraging it, that she could not and for him to go find someone else. A little bit later, her password is changed.
I confront her on this, asking why her password was changed. "I feel too controlled." I told her how I felt about the matter. We agreed upon this, it was for both of us. There is supposed to be absolutely no contact and full transparency. She revealed to me that she was miserable and cut herself the prior day and that she wishes she could just do it until she is done. I pull out my phone and ask her what the number of her therapist is and if I need to call 911. Silence. Looking at her, it just looks like she is trying to guilt me.
I go to her bathroom, find the blade and take it, along with a couple of other things she is not supposed to have due to her drug testing. She hears me and comes storming down the hall, grabs the bag and attempts to try and use force to get the knife out of my hand. "Give that back, I have had that for a long time." All I can think with that is, what kind of response is that? I very calmly tell her to please calm down and to stop, repeatedly, as I work my way down the hall. She continues to attempt to use force. I continue to try and calm her down and get her to stop. She finally does, and sits down on the couch.
We have a little talk about why she feels the need to resort to that, and how I felt she really needs to get more and/or better help if that is where she goes. That I am not going to tolerate it at all and I am not going to let her do that. How I understood she felt that I did not do enough before when she was using, but it is not going to happen like that again. The next time she pulls the hurting herself/death card, it is 911 right off the bat, regardless of her intent.
She told me that she feels like she has no control with anything. I told her I understand, but I cannot have someone crossing or disrespecting me all the time, and I am going to take control of what I have control of to make sure that does not happen.
S3 calls for one of us, W responds and tends to him. I get up, go outside, break the blade and throw it in the trash. Hide all of the other blades and knives in the house. Come back in, and she was in the kitchen. She tells me that there was nothing else after that last email. I then asked, "then why did the password get changed, were you trying to provoke me or something?" With a kind of remorseful look and tone, "maybe?" We talk about some of the content, and how I felt about it. She mentions that I keep telling her "do this, or else this." I remind her what boundaries are. She needs someone else telling her this, and really everything I tell her for that matter.
After this, she was actually all buddy-buddy with me, granted that could have been around S3. This morning, she again was being buddy-buddy with me. On leaving, I ask for her new password. She gave it to me.
Yesterday, I had a good talk with our MC on the phone as she had to cancel my IC/pre-MC appointment. I mentioned to her how W has emailed OM again and let the MC know that I am not going to force W to go, but I will still come in on my own for that matter. I discuss with her about DB and the online forums, how they have helped me tremendously through this. She had not heard of it, but claimed she would look into it. She offered meeting with me individually prior to the MC appointment, I asked her that we can do that if it can be portrayed as part of her therapy as I did not want W thinking we were ganging up on her. She agreed, saying we can do half me (so we can talk more about DB and some other things), and half W, then joint at the end to wrap it up.
Tonight, W told me how her mom laid into her again. W said that she feels like her mom never supported her in her recovery (says this about me too at times). I do validate, and tell her that we all have supported her in her recovery completely. I then mention to her that I felt like her mom and family was more reacting this way because of the A, reminding her that it brought a dark age of their past back (W still hates her father for this very reason). I told her that I was actually trying to calm them down on the matter (for a long time I did, but then just let it go), but I cannot control them or their feelings.
Later on, I ask W what her day was going to be tomorrow. She said she was planning to go to MC with me. I tell her that it is only worthwhile if we are both committed. W claimed that she is and the emails were just "something small." I respond, "the content of the emails, and the fact that there was contact even though we agreed upon none does not make it feel that way, and I do not agree with it being small."
We both went to MC today. Just did a joint visit. Pretty good visit actually.
We discussed a broad range of topics. MC mentioned that there was a huge breach of trust with the infidelity and typically there is a big pendulum swing the other way with respect to getting the trust back (regarding full transparency and no contact). She reassured W that this was only temporary. She mentioned that boundaries cannot be crossed with this, but there does need to be patience and commitment on both sides for this to work, along with mutual respect. She mentioned that it will be difficult for W on her end, there will be steps forward, steps back, and there are stages. First of which is ensuring OM is completely out of the picture. With respect to the continued contact and password change, I mentioned that it would have worked out a lot more positively and better overall if it was all mentioned up front. MC asked W, we all agreed on this.
MC mentioned some of the things I was pursuing to GAL, and was getting out of W what she was doing for herself, healthy outside relationships that do not involve OM. Whenever W would mention something, MC would ask, "would the OM be involved with any of these?" W would respond no. MC was essentially encouraging W to GAL herself, but healthily with other women and support outside of OM. Something I have been encouraging for a long time prior to this sitch.
MC mentioned that a healthy outlet needs to be had for both of us to express anger and our overall feelings. That it is normal and necessary for relationships. She asked how we dealt with difficult conversations and anger in the past and how they have changed since. I replied honestly, that it would normally escalate pretty quickly (raised voice, blame) and nothing would get accomplished, but now that has been toned down substantially on my end and it is a lot more calm and we can actually have more of a conversation, even if it does resort to bodily harm being mentioned.
MC asked W how her IC is going. W responded that the last appointment did not go well at all. W mentioned that apparently all they talk about is her stresses with school and chemical dependency, has not mentioned anything about the A. MC said that it does best to speak with them about everything, not just select topics. W is apparently not comfortable speaking with her IC about everything. I asked about this in the car ride home and if she was thinking about finding someone else and if a female IC would be better for her. She said yes, and she will look.
Overall, everything the MC made mention of lines up with what is said in DB/DR. For both W and I. Gave me more of a positive feeling. MC asked if we were committed and wanted to come back next week. W looked at me, nodded yes, I said, yes that sounds good. MC got a smile on her face with that, felt comforting.
At home, W came up to me and asked me if I saw the new FB message from OM. I had not. She said what is said and I asked what she wanted to do about it. W said that she was not going to respond to it and block him. I waited a little. I said, and in a somewhat attempt to see where her mind was, "lets wait until this evening, send one more simple message to let him know that it cannot go on." She responded, "I would rather just delete it and block him." Good. I then mentioned that I felt that there would be a much more positive outcome if we were both just straight forward with each other with our feelings, regardless of the topic, and sooner than later. She agreed.
In the course of this sitch, I have been taking note of what W says about our experiences in the past. It went from "all negative," to "everything is my fault," (W's), to "everything is your fault," (toward me), to "there were some positives," to this last time (Tuesday), "most of it was positive."
At home, W came up to me and asked me if I saw the new FB message from OM. I had not. She said what is said and I asked what she wanted to do about it. W said that she was not going to respond to it and block him. I waited a little. I said, and in a somewhat attempt to see where her mind was, "lets wait until this evening, send one more simple message to let him know that it cannot go on." She responded, "I would rather just delete it and block him." Good. I then mentioned that I felt that there would be a much more positive outcome if we were both just straight forward with each other with our feelings, regardless of the topic, and sooner than later. She agreed.
This ^^^ was a big positive from her. You should have THANKED HER for being honest with you about OM's FB post, rather than preachy and telling her how things could have more positive outcomes all the time.
You're doing very well, under extremely trying circumstances. I'd just like to see you tone it down a SMIDGE in the holier-/smarter-than-thou stuff, but maybe that's just me.
I've always said that full transparency is for the betrayed spouse AND the formerly wayward spouse, and I've also said that some cheaters are "unwilling" but some are just "unable." Your wife SEEMS to be more in the latter camp, and that too is good. Keep helping her, stay firm, and keep up with the MC and her IC. It's a long slog, but I do see some hope here if she can keep from hurting herself or doing anything else stupid.
That preachy crap that I do is something I have been working on and been trying to resist, one of the 180s I am in the process working on. One of my bad habits has always been trying to fix things in the past - everyday I tell myself outloud "do not try and fix things or sound like you know better."
I did thank her for it, failed to mention that in the post. I did and let her know how appreciative I am.
Time will tell with her and I. She seems to understand that it will take time, patience and work.
New email address made. Continued contact. Confronted. She continues to say I am controlling. I continue to site protection of my values and boundaries. She mentioned, "I was just trying to be friendly with you." I mentioned that as a husband, I can work through this, but I can not be just friends. I said this awhile ago before I found this site. Did not mean anything to her then, likely because I was not acting that way, or not standing up for myself well enough. W left the house again, citing she feels too controlled, never loved me because she did not love herself first, all of the same.
At least this morning she came home at an appropriate time to allow me to leave for work in a timely fashion. And she does want to work out a schedule for child care.
She knows her family is likely going to ostracize her. Her sister will possibly even never talk to her again. She believes it will be for just a short period of time. Based on what happened with her father, likely not, but who knows. OM claims otherwise obviously, but he will likely never be accepted.
One thing that kind of made me laugh on the inside was her asking,
W: "Was that really left open on my phone?" Me: "Yes, that really does not matter, that is beside the point." W: "I just cannot believe I was that stupid."
As I mentioned at the very beginning of my sitch, I had wished I found this source when I first got the news, because I did all the wrong things at first. So, the conversation got down to, "Why weren't you doing this before?" I had to explain a few things about what kind of state I was in (A discovered, Bomb dropped, best friend dying, trying to recover from what happened in May...). Basically, a storm of horrible news knocked me over further than before and I was just not cognitively there. Then I realized (with help) that I needed to stand up for myself, and I cannot let people walk over me. That I did not feel like anything I said was being heard, that I felt like I had to actually do something about it. So, yes, at this point, it feels like anything I do or say that goes against what she feels justified in doing, is going to feel vindictive to her. Especially with OM spewing crap into her ear.
She also claimed she feels like no one is supporting her in her recovery. We support your recovery wholly, not the A. Thought: unfortunately she seems like she put herself in a position where she feels like the only way she can recover is with this OM, and without him, she is miserable. Attaching herself to this OP for her sole source of happiness. Not healthy in my opinion, opposite of what she was supposed to be doing. With her past depression and current justification - everything is negative with me again.
I may actually suggest other friends who are married or getting married, to read DB or DR just so they know what to do if it ever gets to that point. That, or it may help them anyway, or reinforce what they are doing already, prevent getting to this point.
Letting go, but not giving up. Just going to continue to work on myself and be the best person I can be, not there yet. Still planning to go to MC appointment, talk to her about some things.
I am supposed to help W's family with some home improvement at the end of this week. That should be fun. Hopefully they do not ask me anything, though I expect them to. I suppose I can pull the, "It may be better to speak with W about that."
Last week it got to the point where I just did not really want to associate with W. She would come over to watch S3 and do some homework, but then leave. I would be happy, enthusiactic, and content when we were around S3 together, but when we would be alone together, I would keep my words short or just leave the room all together to do something else, go out to GAL and such (soccer games, hang out with friends). We would make sure schedules were synchronized at least. The only real conversations were about our S.
W did start a new job, and it would just be me home for the evening and to put S3 to bed. I know this got to her.
Come last Friday. W comes home in the morning. I was going to leave to help MIL get some home improvement items, then go out for the day with a good friend and his father. W asks if I could do something for her while out. I just gave her a "really?" look. Conversation as follows: W: "Ok, fine then, I was just trying to be polite to you with all of this." Me: "These things do not end amicably when an A continues on. On top of that, I feel like for all of the support and protection I have provided to our S the last couple of years, he is now being taken from me 50% of the time and given to someone whom I absolutely despise." W (emotionally): "I can see that, you are a wonderful person, and I am very sorry for all of this." (pause), "but I love him." I turned and walked away saying: "I do not want to talk about that crap right now."
I went out to help MIL pick up some home improvement goods, then came back to get ready to go out with my friend. Approached W saying, "I am sorry for earlier, I was just being completely honest." She responded with, "I understand where you are coming from with this, it is OK."
I went out and had an awesome day with my friend. It was something I had not done before and it was great.
I came home in the evening. Contently spoke about my day with W with S around. W and I put S to bed. W approaches me to talk. She talked to me about our relationship, she said she had been doing a lot of thinking. Where she felt we went wrong in the past and how she felt she had been treating me horribly. She mentioned that we are a good fit for a couple, compatible, lots in common (previously it was we are incompatible and have TOO much in common, yeah). She mentioned that she in reality had nothing in common with OM, aside from recovery (she finally realized this). She said that she wants to work us out, be happy, go on vacation. She felt that having a job helps because she can feel like she actually provides for the family (this was a source of contention for her for a long time). When she was done, all I could say after a long pause, was "that was the most beautifully honest thing I have ever heard you say." And it truly was. W left, came back with all of her stuff.
A couple days later, MIL asked me about W, as W mentioned to her similar realizations, added that W mentioned that she was just "rebelling against what everyone was telling her." I confirmed W said the same things to me too. Still going to take time for both of us to have trust in her, if she is truly being truthful. I decided to read Sandi's list of insights into the mind of WW (http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554) to MIL, telling her how eerily similar everything W was doing and saying was lining up with it. She just had this "holy ****" look on her face, agreed with everythig she had noticed too.
W has been a lot more open with me about everything recently, and seems content being around now. I know this is not a popular decision here, but I have honestly decided to not even check on her communications. Somewhat a waste of time to me as she can always just get around it, and it puts me in an anxious state, though I might decide to do a much less often check. I can tell if she is there by how she acts. Before, she did not want to do anything with me alone, only with S around. Sex was out of the question, because she felt like "we were brother and sister," acts of kindness were nearly non-existent, work around the house would never get done, did not want to talk to me about anything, especially how she was feeling. All of this has changed. Maybe it is a temporary ruse, but I will know in time. I would rather just concentrate on doing things for myself and if she wants to be a part of it, she can. Just do not want to waste my time being angry or anxious.
W spoke with one of her friends about what was going on. W told me her friend said something along the lines of "Wow, your H really is a wonderful person to still want to work something out with you." I like this friend.
W wants to get into MC again, stick with it, that is scheduled in a week and a half. I went to the last MC without W, used it as IC, decided to continue on with the IC anyway. Nice to talk to someone else about all of this. Have IC next week. W seems to be in a positive frame of mind for our relationship. Things seem better already, but still going to keep my guard up. I do have contacts with a couple of her AA friends now. They can help me out with this to put less on me.
Me: 35 husband:39 Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage Twins 5 (boy/girl) Daughter 3 Affair bomb 2/27/14 He moved in with ow 3/13/14 OW kicked him out 6/15/14 4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction
I guess I'm wondering why you let her back in the house so quick. For me, I would have held off with that until she demonstrated, through actions, that what she was saying was for real. But that's me, I don't like being jerked around on the emotional roller coaster anymore. But I also understand you want her back home to work on the marriage. Oh well, she is home so you have to work it from there. I wish you the best of luck.
It's been said a few times on this site to believe none of what they say and only half what they do. I believe that.
Me:49 W:45 M:19 T:22 EA confirmed and ended 8/2014 S:19,17 D:9,5
W has been a lot more open with me about everything recently, and seems content being around now. I know this is not a popular decision here, but I have honestly decided to not even check on her communications. Somewhat a waste of time to me as she can always just get around it, and it puts me in an anxious state, though I might decide to do a much less often check. I can tell if she is there by how she acts. Before, she did not want to do anything with me alone, only with S around. Sex was out of the question, because she felt like "we were brother and sister," acts of kindness were nearly non-existent, work around the house would never get done, did not want to talk to me about anything, especially how she was feeling. All of this has changed. Maybe it is a temporary ruse, but I will know in time.
It has nothing to do with being a "popular" opinion or not, TryIt10 -- it has to do with what has historically been effective. It's taking advantage of the wisdom of those who have come before you, and everything they've been thru, and trying to learn from their mistakes.
In my opinion, you're letting her back too easy, and setting yourself up for disaster.
