Just got off phone with W. She just met with her L. W said that her L, because it would be such a straightforward case, would handle it for both of us for a nominal fee. I didn't think that this was even legal?!
One, I don't think this serves my best interest in delaying the D. Two, while it may be cheaper, because I do believe our D, if it happens, would be fairly straightforward in regards to custody and financials, I still think it's in my best interest to have my own L.
Anyone ever heard of this? Would my W's L be acting as a mediator only?
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
A mediator can't offer any advice unless both of you are there. Her L is not your mediator. Get your own L. OR both agree to go to a mediator together.
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
In an effort to delay, you MAY want to agree to meet with her attorney to discuss the prospect of him representing both of you. I think they may call it collaborative divorce depending on the state.
You certainly won't be going this route but your wife and the attorney don't have to know this.
If you say "no" to this proposition today, your wife will just pay him and he'll prepare a case and file ASAP (before you do...since so many attorney's think filing first is an advantage).
If you say "I don't know, let's set up a meeting" you can prolong this process and maybe get your wife to settle down about the exposure and not bother filing. Once the affair being over sinks in...getting this divorce done ASAP won't be such a pressing issue. She'll be depressed instead and unmotivated to pursue this course of action.
Therefore, agree to meet with "her" attorney. Listen to what they have to say. Maybe even get them to document their "reasonable" position. (this could be great evidence if she later claims you are abusive or a drug addict or something and tries to take full custody of the kids as an act of vengeance). Then leave the office saying you'll think about it. Then, do nothing. Don't talk divorce and wait to see if she ever gets around to actually filing. If she does....THEN hire your own attorney.
It's also possible you could say "yes", make the attorney both of your attorneys and THEN, don't agree or sign anything. Then, I believe, that attorney can't just represent her in a separate divorce case because he was also your attorney for a brief moment. She'll have to find another attorney to file the case.
Delay. You might buy yourself a couple weeks here before she files. She's mad and being reactive. She wasn't in a hurry to file last week so maybe she'll drop the notion here in a short time once this all sinks in. Time is on your side. Drag it out.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
If your wife gets fired after you internally jump for joy, this is what you need to do:
Immediately be super supportive of your wife and MAD at the hospital. How dare they fire her and let OM keep his job. He is the superior so if anyone gets fired it should be him. Then make an appointment at a lawyer and pursue suing the hospital for this. Sexual harassment, etc. Your lawyer can throw the book at them. The hospital doesn't care. They have insurance for this. They will pay up even if it's just a nuisance settlement. They will do whatever the doctors want and walk all over whomever they want and let their lawyers sort out the mess.
BUT....this is a huge opportunity for you to be on her side bonding with her in her anger at the hospital (and OM) for this huge injustice. You and her get to be a team against the hospital AND OM. Not only did OM dump her but he got her fired too. This would be the complete death nell of the affair and you get to step in an be the knight in shining armor coming to her emotional rescue.
I gotta chime and and say I disagree. Doesnt mean I am right but I disagree with the concept of siding with your wife for a 'bonding' moment. First, she likely broke the rules of the hospital, so yea, she should be fired. Who cares what happens to the OM. This is about her. Second, she needs to begin to feel the consequences of her actions. She did wrong, and now she may have to pay the piper. Do not let her anger and blame on you affect how you handle what happens to her. She needs to hit bottom before she will ever begin to think about seriously working on her marriage. Right now her mind is clouded with emotions...anger, sadness, confusion. Missing from there is undying love for you. Missing from there is respect for you. These emotions are not going to just appear because you start saying the hospital is wrong for doing what I as a boss would have done to your W AND the OM if they broke a major rule. Your job is not to comfort your wife right now. Your job is to let your W's fantasy world self destruct and you need to be as far away from it as you can.
Again, no disrespect to Georgia Bulldog. I just disagree.
Thank you for the differing perspective.
I'll try to be quick here.
If Defacto and his wife are Christians I don't see how Defacto's role here is to be the one dishing out consequences or abandoning his wife IF she needs him and his support. I should clarify that he should NOT run around "pursuing" her to support her IF she gets fired but it COULD present an opportunity for him to 180 her and BE supportive of her getting fired IF she wants his support. I do think it matters if OM doesn't get fired and his wife does. The rules should be applied equally to men and women, doctors and support staff. If anything, it sounds like HE was the superior (the doctor) and him using his position of power and prestige to "prey" on the impressionable support staff (I know she's an adult who made her choices but these Doctors are treated like Gods sometimes at these hospitals) is a situation that MAY call for the consideration of seeking legal action for unjust termination. Rules need to be applied fairly. They don't have to actually sue anyone for Defacto to be supportive and understanding and easily join her in her upset towards OM.
There are certainly risks to taking a loving supportive approach towards a wayward wife. I've been around long enough to see a lot of divorced guys regret every effort they ever made to save their marriages and think a wayward spouse needs to somehow hit rock bottom and be broken like a dog or horse before a betrayed husband should ever even let them back into the marriage. These men rightly want to protect a betrayed husband from making the same painful mistakes they did when often happiness and recovery are just a simple divorce away. But on the other side I've met and helped many recovered marriages where the betrayed husband was loving and supportive (without being enabling or groveling) throughout much of the ordeal. There's often a misnomer, in my opinion, that you can't LOVE your wife back into the marriage and I'm living proof that it's possible.
In my opinion, former wayward wives don't feel regretful for their behavior UNTIL they fall back in love with their husbands. They fall back in love with their husband when their husband behaves in an attractive manner (non-enabling, no bull) AND he meets her most important emotional needs in the way she likes them met.
I also think that if Defacto's wife gets fired.....the affair is OVER. OM doctor got her fired for breaking the secret code that "what happens at General Hospital stays at General Hospital". His wife isn't calling Defacto back because now Defacto and his wife are HER enemies. She wants Defacto's wife fired because, from her point of view, Defacto's wife is preying upon her wealthy doctor ticket and he's certainly not giving up his job. OM doctor lives at the hospital. That is where he socializes and fraternizes with women. He is not going to continue a relationship with Defacto's wife outside the hospital. Hence, the affair would be over. Defacto's wife is going to be going through withdrawal and need support. If she doesn't want Defacto's support (she's certainly going to be blaming him for causing this) he shouldn't pursue it. Like you said, "you need to be as far away from it as you can". But if Defacto's wife will allow it or seeks it....I think he should do a 180 from way he was before and BE SUPPORTIVE of her to a modest extent. The are separated so he can "detach" in the safety of his home so such support would be very limited anyway.
It's a fine line. That's why your perspective, Old Pilot, is so valuable. If Defacto gets in too much with his heart or gets needy and beggy without firm boundaries, his wife MAY walk all over him and it WILL be crazy making (fog talk, blame shifting and gas lighting) and IF he, in fact, ends up divorced he could be very bitter and upset about taking such actions (not calling anyone bitter). On the other hand, IF he acts lovingly and compassionately towards his wife right now and in the coming weeks, with as detached a perspective as possible, and he recovers his marriage, even if his wife trounces all over him for a bit (through the withdrawal period, in particular) he won't regret taking that approach at all.
Personally, I was able to lovingly detach from my wife. I'd read enough to understand her perspective and that she was pretty much out of her mind. I didn't pray that she would be broken but I did pray that she would repent. I wasn't in love with my wife EITHER but for our children's sake I was willing to TRY to see if we could repair and rebuild our LOVING marriage. I believed my wife's behavior was an anomaly; but, I certainly wasn't sure at the time. I didn't abandon her rather I spent as much time with her as I could mostly just listening and letting her talk it out. And then it turned into us both learning how to be married and in love. And now my wife and I share our testimony and help other couples overcome infidelity through our church in our real lives.
This is Defacto's call. Some guys can take more than others. It's completely disrespectful that your wife thinks she's in love with someone else, hates you and blames YOU for it. She is behaving completely unloveable and as long as she remains at that hospital working with OM, the affair continues and you SHOULD stay as far away from her as possible while continuing your GAL's, 180's and detaching. But, if the affair is actually over and "no contact" in place, in my opinion, piecing begins and it's worth the risk to start engaging, in a still happy go lucky confident but yet detached manner, with your wife. Although sometimes wayward husbands coming running back to their betrayed wives all apologetic and begging for a second chance; this almost never happens with wayward wives. They get attracted back to the marriage by strong behaving, non-enabling (like Defacto calling OM's wife), and husband's that love them when no one else would or should. THEN, once they break through the "I just could never love you or have sex with you again phase" they begin to have feelings for their betrayed husband again and THEN develop empathy and regret for what they've done to him. THEN, they are sorry and in awe that you actually did that for them (something they certainly FEEL the would have never likely done for you).
In my opinion, if you continue ACTING distant, non-emotive and non-caring seeming, even after the affair ends, she'll mind read and presume you don't care, got what you deserved (her cheating) and will continue on her wayward path with OM#2 and/or an unjust divorce.
It's a difficult position to be in. Putting your heart back out there and loving someone who certainly isn't loving you one bit and you MAY lose. But for me, I felt (as I watched my children sleep) that I'd have more regrets if I didn't try. I felt my family was worth it. I thought my wife was worth it. I also knew I was going to be OK either way whereas I knew my wife wouldn't be and my young kids needed their mother. I kind of looked at it as a rescue mission. My wife played with matches and was now in a burning building. I could wait for her to come out or be stuck in their, burn to death and learn her lesson, or I could run into the smoke and flames and try to save her, risking my own safety and health in the process.
so much for being quick.
Your call Defacto.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Anyone ever heard of this? Would my W's L be acting as a mediator only?
I think this is fairly standard practice for the opposing counsel to try to get you to agree without having lawyers.
I agree it more than likely will not be in your best interest.
Ideally, I would think that if it was inevitable that M would end in D, mediation seems like the way to go for now as both W and I seem to agree on most of the financials. In our state, it's no fault so it's 50/50 no matter what.
Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
In an effort to delay, you MAY want to agree to meet with her attorney to discuss the prospect of him representing both of you. I think they may call it collaborative divorce depending on the state.
You certainly won't be going this route but your wife and the attorney don't have to know this.
If you say "no" to this proposition today, your wife will just pay him and he'll prepare a case and file ASAP (before you do...since so many attorney's think filing first is an advantage).
If you say "I don't know, let's set up a meeting" you can prolong this process and maybe get your wife to settle down about the exposure and not bother filing. Once the affair being over sinks in...getting this divorce done ASAP won't be such a pressing issue. She'll be depressed instead and unmotivated to pursue this course of action.
Therefore, agree to meet with "her" attorney. Listen to what they have to say. Maybe even get them to document their "reasonable" position. (this could be great evidence if she later claims you are abusive or a drug addict or something and tries to take full custody of the kids as an act of vengeance). Then leave the office saying you'll think about it. Then, do nothing. Don't talk divorce and wait to see if she ever gets around to actually filing. If she does....THEN hire your own attorney.
It's also possible you could say "yes", make the attorney both of your attorneys and THEN, don't agree or sign anything. Then, I believe, that attorney can't just represent her in a separate divorce case because he was also your attorney for a brief moment. She'll have to find another attorney to file the case.
Delay. You might buy yourself a couple weeks here before she files. She's mad and being reactive. She wasn't in a hurry to file last week so maybe she'll drop the notion here in a short time once this all sinks in. Time is on your side. Drag it out.
I like this idea because it appears that I'm not being adversarial or controlling AND it buys me time.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
It's a fine line. That's why your perspective, Old Pilot, is so valuable.
Just to set the record straight, you were quoting Pilot. Mr Pilot is NOT old, I am the only one OLD around here..... LOL
OMG~~~~my bad.
Thought his user name was "Old Pilot" so I wasn't really referring to my perception of his age though I do see now he's just a young man according to his signature.
My apologies. Thanks for bringing that to my attention and congrats on the new assignment as mod. It's a tough very political job.
GB <~~~~~ REALLY OLD
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
If your wife gets fired after you internally jump for joy, this is what you need to do:
Immediately be super supportive of your wife and MAD at the hospital. How dare they fire her and let OM keep his job. He is the superior so if anyone gets fired it should be him. Then make an appointment at a lawyer and pursue suing the hospital for this. Sexual harassment, etc. Your lawyer can throw the book at them. The hospital doesn't care. They have insurance for this. They will pay up even if it's just a nuisance settlement. They will do whatever the doctors want and walk all over whomever they want and let their lawyers sort out the mess.
BUT....this is a huge opportunity for you to be on her side bonding with her in her anger at the hospital (and OM) for this huge injustice. You and her get to be a team against the hospital AND OM. Not only did OM dump her but he got her fired too. This would be the complete death nell of the affair and you get to step in an be the knight in shining armor coming to her emotional rescue.
I gotta chime and and say I disagree. Doesnt mean I am right but I disagree with the concept of siding with your wife for a 'bonding' moment. First, she likely broke the rules of the hospital, so yea, she should be fired. Who cares what happens to the OM. This is about her. Second, she needs to begin to feel the consequences of her actions. She did wrong, and now she may have to pay the piper. Do not let her anger and blame on you affect how you handle what happens to her. She needs to hit bottom before she will ever begin to think about seriously working on her marriage. Right now her mind is clouded with emotions...anger, sadness, confusion. Missing from there is undying love for you. Missing from there is respect for you. These emotions are not going to just appear because you start saying the hospital is wrong for doing what I as a boss would have done to your W AND the OM if they broke a major rule. Your job is not to comfort your wife right now. Your job is to let your W's fantasy world self destruct and you need to be as far away from it as you can.
Again, no disrespect to Georgia Bulldog. I just disagree.
Thank you for the differing perspective.
I'll try to be quick here.
If Defacto and his wife are Christians I don't see how Defacto's role here is to be the one dishing out consequences or abandoning his wife IF she needs him and his support. I should clarify that he should NOT run around "pursuing" her to support her IF she gets fired but it COULD present an opportunity for him to 180 her and BE supportive of her getting fired IF she wants his support. I do think it matters if OM doesn't get fired and his wife does. The rules should be applied equally to men and women, doctors and support staff. If anything, it sounds like HE was the superior (the doctor) and him using his position of power and prestige to "prey" on the impressionable support staff (I know she's an adult who made her choices but these Doctors are treated like Gods sometimes at these hospitals) is a situation that MAY call for the consideration of seeking legal action for unjust termination. Rules need to be applied fairly. They don't have to actually sue anyone for Defacto to be supportive and understanding and easily join her in her upset towards OM.
There are certainly risks to taking a loving supportive approach towards a wayward wife. I've been around long enough to see a lot of divorced guys regret every effort they ever made to save their marriages and think a wayward spouse needs to somehow hit rock bottom and be broken like a dog or horse before a betrayed husband should ever even let them back into the marriage. These men rightly want to protect a betrayed husband from making the same painful mistakes they did when often happiness and recovery are just a simple divorce away. But on the other side I've met and helped many recovered marriages where the betrayed husband was loving and supportive (without being enabling or groveling) throughout much of the ordeal. There's often a misnomer, in my opinion, that you can't LOVE your wife back into the marriage and I'm living proof that it's possible.
In my opinion, former wayward wives don't feel regretful for their behavior UNTIL they fall back in love with their husbands. They fall back in love with their husband when their husband behaves in an attractive manner (non-enabling, no bull) AND he meets her most important emotional needs in the way she likes them met.
I also think that if Defacto's wife gets fired.....the affair is OVER. OM doctor got her fired for breaking the secret code that "what happens at General Hospital stays at General Hospital". His wife isn't calling Defacto back because now Defacto and his wife are HER enemies. She wants Defacto's wife fired because, from her point of view, Defacto's wife is preying upon her wealthy doctor ticket and he's certainly not giving up his job. OM doctor lives at the hospital. That is where he socializes and fraternizes with women. He is not going to continue a relationship with Defacto's wife outside the hospital. Hence, the affair would be over. Defacto's wife is going to be going through withdrawal and need support. If she doesn't want Defacto's support (she's certainly going to be blaming him for causing this) he shouldn't pursue it. Like you said, "you need to be as far away from it as you can". But if Defacto's wife will allow it or seeks it....I think he should do a 180 from way he was before and BE SUPPORTIVE of her to a modest extent. The are separated so he can "detach" in the safety of his home so such support would be very limited anyway.
It's a fine line. That's why your perspective, Old Pilot, is so valuable. If Defacto gets in too much with his heart or gets needy and beggy without firm boundaries, his wife MAY walk all over him and it WILL be crazy making (fog talk, blame shifting and gas lighting) and IF he, in fact, ends up divorced he could be very bitter and upset about taking such actions (not calling anyone bitter). On the other hand, IF he acts lovingly and compassionately towards his wife right now and in the coming weeks, with as detached a perspective as possible, and he recovers his marriage, even if his wife trounces all over him for a bit (through the withdrawal period, in particular) he won't regret taking that approach at all.
Personally, I was able to lovingly detach from my wife. I'd read enough to understand her perspective and that she was pretty much out of her mind. I didn't pray that she would be broken but I did pray that she would repent. I wasn't in love with my wife EITHER but for our children's sake I was willing to TRY to see if we could repair and rebuild our LOVING marriage. I believed my wife's behavior was an anomaly; but, I certainly wasn't sure at the time. I didn't abandon her rather I spent as much time with her as I could mostly just listening and letting her talk it out. And then it turned into us both learning how to be married and in love. And now my wife and I share our testimony and help other couples overcome infidelity through our church in our real lives.
This is Defacto's call. Some guys can take more than others. It's completely disrespectful that your wife thinks she's in love with someone else, hates you and blames YOU for it. She is behaving completely unloveable and as long as she remains at that hospital working with OM, the affair continues and you SHOULD stay as far away from her as possible while continuing your GAL's, 180's and detaching. But, if the affair is actually over and "no contact" in place, in my opinion, piecing begins and it's worth the risk to start engaging, in a still happy go lucky confident but yet detached manner, with your wife. Although sometimes wayward husbands coming running back to their betrayed wives all apologetic and begging for a second chance; this almost never happens with wayward wives. They get attracted back to the marriage by strong behaving, non-enabling (like Defacto calling OM's wife), and husband's that love them when no one else would or should. THEN, once they break through the "I just could never love you or have sex with you again phase" they begin to have feelings for their betrayed husband again and THEN develop empathy and regret for what they've done to him. THEN, they are sorry and in awe that you actually did that for them (something they certainly FEEL the would have never likely done for you).
In my opinion, if you continue ACTING distant, non-emotive and non-caring seeming, even after the affair ends, she'll mind read and presume you don't care, got what you deserved (her cheating) and will continue on her wayward path with OM#2 and/or an unjust divorce.
It's a difficult position to be in. Putting your heart back out there and loving someone who certainly isn't loving you one bit and you MAY lose. But for me, I felt (as I watched my children sleep) that I'd have more regrets if I didn't try. I felt my family was worth it. I thought my wife was worth it. I also knew I was going to be OK either way whereas I knew my wife wouldn't be and my young kids needed their mother. I kind of looked at it as a rescue mission. My wife played with matches and was now in a burning building. I could wait for her to come out or be stuck in their, burn to death and learn her lesson, or I could run into the smoke and flames and try to save her, risking my own safety and health in the process.
so much for being quick.
Your call Defacto.
Do you think it was wrong of me to continue to pull away from W when she was reaching out to me but still involved with OM?
As far as the present is concerned, I can see how a supportive approach could be viewed as a 180 but I see how W would receive it as too little too late.
Should I innocently reach out to see how W is doing or just sit tight and wait to see if W comes to me?
It would really help to know what's going on with OM right now!
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
