My reaction is one of disbelief, not anger (not yet). I don't understand how I could be so vulnerable to someone. WW could make the unilateral decision to leave me, take away half my kids and grandkids. She did not have to discuss it with me. She promised "until death do us apart", yet she could leave for someone else she met a month earlier. And now I might have to pay her? I feel like I'm missing something, that there is something about life that I haven't understood yet. How can this even be possible?
Do I owe her because she sacrificed for our family? She worked since we were together, she was not a SAHM. I have been very supportive of her career. It was a high point of our relationship, in that I advised her, helped her with her resume and interview prep, salary negotiations, etc. I'm older than her and, honestly, I work harder. I've regularly been ranked in the top 10% of my colleagues in a competitive work place. On the other hand, she once been fired for what amounts to laziness (she wasn't always lazy though). I come from a lower middle class background and have made my way with scholarships and hard work. Her parents paid for everything until she was 25 years old. She never had any debt and I paid mine with my income.
Yet, I did not sacrifice my family to my job and stopped all systematic overtime when D7 was born. I've shared 50% of the parenting tasks, so it's not like she sacrificed on behalf of the family, except for the total 9 months of maternity leave. I even took more sick leave (for the kids) because mine was paid and not hers. I paid more than half our expenses, I paid for the two births alone, I paid for her maternity leave alone (hers was unpaid). All the while, her parents are well off (I'm talking about 7 figures), give her thousands of dollars every year and prepare a generous inheritance. Mine are more likely to need financial support in their old age.
I'm trying to come to terms with the idea that I can still nevertheless be dumped without having a say or a chance. And now facing the possibility that I might have to pay her is something new and puzzling. Add to this that she quickly moved in with OM, splitting the home expenses in two, while leaving me in the expensive apartment alone, overnight.
All in all, it feels like getting hit by a baseball bat and then charged for the dent in the bat. I don't understand why I deserve so much punishment, nor why life or society is organized to even make this a possibility.
Anyway, this is just to explain a little bit how, as a man maybe, I can see the situation.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
I know. I hear you. I feel the same way. We played by the rules, did everything we thought to make our marriages work, planned for the future, cared for our wives and families both physically and financially and then POOF, it vanishes because our partners unilaterially decided to blow it up.
It's unbelievable when you think about it.
Do you remember the story of Job in the Bible and all that he suffered and endured? Just remember how it turned out for him in the end.
Obviously everyone's situation is different. And everyone has different perspectives.
Perhaps you could reframe it? Yes, you have to pay for child support, but at least you both are stand up gentleman who appear to at least want to provide for your children's well-being and needs.
My father had an affair. When my mom stated she wasn't going to live in an open marriage and unhappy, he dropped us like a sack of potatoes. Refused to pay child support for multiple reasons but basically because he felt that since he was done with my mother, and the marriage, that all obligations ended. Including assisting with raising the child he was "so excited to have" - until I was actually born and he realized that life isn't all rainbows and butterflies and happy endings. As such, he paid not a damn cent to making sure I had things like braces, extra-curricular activities, etc. All things he got to enjoy as a child.
Situations suck for everyone. Not just the men. I could get saddled with half of the debt that my H racked up in secret, because he didn't want to admit that he sucked at finances. It's all in his name, but because I'm married to him -- I'm legally obligated to pay towards it. Same goes for him. How is that fair for either one of us? That's where lawyers make the $$$, I suppose.
Obviously -- it's a touchy subject, and there's no right or wrong answer -- just like everyone has their own perspective that goes with their situation, background, etc.
M:32,H 32 T:10, M5 BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger H Mental Illness Diagnosis: 4/15 Served D Papers: 10/15 Divorced: 11/15
I certainly don't want to make any blanket statement regarding men and women. I have very little information on this. I'm just sharing my own perspective and how it is difficult for me to understand what is happening. Of course, I will do the right thing, as I have done all my life and as I've done since BD.
Originally Posted By: Calibri
Perhaps you could reframe it? Yes, you have to pay for child support, but at least you both are stand up gentleman who appear to at least want to provide for your children's well-being and needs.
In the S speech, my WW told me she felt comfortable leaving me because I'm a good, involved father, so the kids will be in good hands. FIL repeated the same thing last week. WW also said that I had been very helpful to her and that she was very grateful for it, but wanted to take the next steps without me, leaving even my positive influence. She also said of my friends and family who welcomed her with open arms (remember that her parents rejected me) that she wanted to tell them, and I quote: "Thanks. It's been fun." I feel punished for being good, or at least I feel that being good is making it easier or more likely to punish me. It's so confusing.
As a Nice Guy, I expect that if I'm generous and kind and good and nice, the universe will pay me in return. It leads to a lot of frustration when it doesn't happen. You can imagine how hard it is to understand the consequences of D for someone like this. I don't stand there fuming; I stand there in shock, with my mouth half open.
HeavyD - Good reference about Job. We're certainly being tested now!
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Thank you all for accepting my apology and allowing the conversation to continue.
Mozza, your post sums up why this is such a fiery topic. Our situations differ but the theme is similar.
I was trying to express that many women underestimate exactly how this can feel to men. So for women who are or will be receiving payments to minimize this (even unintentionally) and talk of 'reframing' or other ways to look at it, I don't know how else I can explain this other than some of us feel incredibly differently and you'll have to take our word for it. I used a poor choice of words yet seem unable to communicate how seriously violating this can feel.
Calibri, we're totally fine. I'm a fan, and I appreciate your being here. Just good conversation. And trust me, I agree with your main point. I'm not going to let it eat away at me or wreck my life. But I am definitely validating me feelings about it because they are very, very real.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I was trying to express that many women underestimate exactly how this can feel to men. So for women who are or will be receiving payments to minimize this (even unintentionally) and talk of 'reframing' or other ways to look at it, I don't know how else I can explain this other than some of us feel incredibly differently and you'll have to take our word for it. I used a poor choice of words yet seem unable to communicate how seriously violating this can feel.
Zues- FWIW- I think the issue amongst us ladies is not so much that women tend to "underestimate" how this feels to a man but more so that you seem to be claiming this as an exclusively male experience (and I'm just basing this off of your posts).
You might want to consider your audience. The women here are all LBS. I assure you that it is just as mind boggling to me that my STBX can cheat, move out with OW and have an expectation of 50/50 custody (which is the standard in my state). And yes - I technically would have had to pay him alimony after he turned down promotions for years because he didn't want added responsibilities (I'll give him credit - he turned it down). I don't think many of us have found the courts biased against men. Rather they tend to favor the primary caregiver (which is still the Mother in many cases).
Due to the constraints of his job, our custody split is 80/20 (and by the way - I'm pretty angry that he can just unilaterally make a decision that takes away that large chunk of my kid's childhoods) and yes, he pays me child support. It was calculated by a decidedly non-biased state formula and I can assure you it is nowhere near what he contributed to household expenses previously (and that's with him voluntarily throwing in a little extra for childcare). If I am going to keep my kids in the manner of life to which they are accustomed - it's primarily up to me. 90% of my net income goes to maintaining a household for my kids. That's hardly the case for STBX.
So- yes, all of our situations are different, but all of us, men and women, can feel "seriously violated" by all of this.
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
Rppfl, Calibri, GeorgiaBell, Raliced...thank you for your patience with me today. You're absolutely right that it's not a "male" issue with the courts. When third parties get involved with dictating the lay of the land for finances, time with children, etc, everyone gets trodden down a bit. I appreciate the feedback because I will admit I'd never really seen the other side of it. And I don't stand by every comment I made as it was some emotional spewing as well, so thanks for not taking it too pointedly either. You ladies on this forum are my inspiration.
The good news is that however abrasive and cold the court systems feel, this is the United States. No one is going to starve to death. No one is going to die from lack of medical attention or clean water. (Please don't cite the exception, I've put my foot in my mouth enough times today, if I'm wrong and this has happened to you or a loved one I'm sorry, just making a point).
This is what I told myself when I used to do loans for people. If they got denied and were facing foreclosures or reposessions it was really hard for me. But I reminded myself that no matter what happened their family would survive. They might have to switch school districts, lose contact with some neighbors, or get rid of the family dog. But they'd be OK. Same goes for me and my family now. It's a blessing to be in this country, and for me to fret about not being as well off as I had hoped is pretty ungrateful.
Thank you all and God bless DB forums, you are all very gracious.
Last edited by Zues126; 04/14/1511:20 PM.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
The good news is that however abrasive and cold the court systems feel, this is the United States. No one is going to starve to death. No one is going to die from lack of medical attention or clean water.
You're kidding, right????
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
