Alpha Step At A Time #5

[alpha99]

Previous thread

New thread time. A good time to recap:

* Around two weeks ago W and I agreed upon a parenting plan for the kids. We are sticking to it very well. Her apparent lack of trust in me seems to have been resolved.

* Over the same time period W is being a lot nicer and somewhat more considerate towards me.

* W definitely in contact with OM still but A status unknown.

* I have had a dramatic upturn in managing emotions and dealing with situation. I am improving in my GAL activities.

* W making more noises about selling the house.

* No R talk/D talk mentioned in a few weeks. This seems to have helped things settle down. It appears D at a point she can afford it is still her (unspoken) intent.

Generally, things seemed to have improved quite a bit in terms of our interactions. See my last few posts on previous thread for that. Such a turnaround lends itself to being skeptical of W's actions. Is it to ensure I co-operate on house sale? Is it a genuine turnaround now her anger has subsided? Something else?

The next big thing I see on the horizon is the handling of our house sale. I see it as inevitable as this point. It will surely take months to go through the whole process of actually selling it. I am not looking to our house being sold. It's not the house itself - that's just a building - it's what it represents - a family together.

At this point I am following the Last Resort Technique. I haven't initiated contact with W in over two weeks. I only respond when she initiates. I don't pursue in any form. I validate wherever possible. My 180s are my change of clothing, glasses, new aftershave/deodorant, as well as having a tight grip on my previous tendencies to argue/shout/name call/be a jerk. I am more easy going over the parenting of our children. I'm GAL-ing pretty well. I need to expand on that.

Two things I would like to throw out there for anyone reading to chew on:

1) A day or so post BD I bought concert tickets for W. They are for her current favourite singer and not my cup of tea at all. She didn't want them initially. I moved them from the fireplace somewhere out of sight. Upon leaving for MIL's W noticed they'd gone and reminded me I had said she could have them regardless (I did say that at the time I presented them to her). I said she had told me she didn't want them and so I would do something with them. All of this is now about six weeks ago.

After the rollercoaster of events during that time we are getting on better these last two weeks or so. The concert is still about a month away. I'm not going to mention anything about it until nearer the time (if I mention it at all). I don't want to just give them to her and have her go with someone else (mainly because I paid for them and they were quite expensive). I would go with her to the concert but I don't want to appear to be trying to schedule a date or anything. I could give them to relatives but the money issue still applies. I can't get a refund on the tickets. Another option is to try and sell them to any interested third party. I was wondering on what your thoughts are over this?

2) It is my birthday in a couple of weeks. How should I handle this? It falls on a day when W has kids. W mentioned today that S6 has been invited to a party the day after my birthday (one of my days with kids). Now, we could swap days that week. I could request we do a family event (pursuing issue here?). I could drop off/pick up S6 at the party and go out from there. S6 could skip the party (I would feel bad here). Any other suggestions?

[alpha99]

I thought I'd summarise more concisely:

We're physically separated, W possibly (maybe longing to be) in on going physical affair, doesn't want to work on marriage/wants divorce.

[zew]

Alpha,

Until your W comes back to you and says in no uncertain terms "what will it take to fix our M?", all your time snooping is pretty much time wasted.

You will drown yourself in a sea of speculation, and whether you are guessing correctly or not will make absolutely no difference to the outcome.

Use your time more wisely. Use your time to figure out what you want to be and where you want to be. Figure out the steps to get there and start on your journey. Don't wait until tomorrow, start now.

If you follow that journey with conviction, you may find people joining you, maybe even your W. Perhaps not. And if she doesn't, it won't really matter since you know you are on the right path, with conviction, right?

Realize that your value is not in chasing your W (or anyone else) in circles. Pick a point, draw a straight line, and go.

[Starsky309]

Alpha,

Until your W comes back to you and says in no uncertain terms "what will it take to fix our M?", all your time snooping is pretty much time wasted.

You will drown yourself in a sea of speculation, and whether you are guessing correctly or not will make absolutely no difference to the outcome.

Use your time more wisely. Use your time to figure out what you want to be and where you want to be. Figure out the steps to get there and start on your journey. Don't wait until tomorrow, start now.

If you follow that journey with conviction, you may find people joining you, maybe even your W. Perhaps not. And if she doesn't, it won't really matter since you know you are on the right path, with conviction, right?

Realize that your value is not in chasing your W (or anyone else) in circles. Pick a point, draw a straight line, and go.

Starsky

[Sotto]

I'm not sure about the tickets Alpha. But I don't think suggesting a family B'day is a good idea. Make your own lovely B'day plans which don't include W. She has checked out of that role remember? Ask her for a swap for the kids on that day if you want though...

[Starsky309]

I'm not sure about the tickets Alpha. But I don't think suggesting a family B'day is a good idea. Make your own lovely B'day plans which don't include W. She has checked out of that role remember? Ask her for a swap for the kids on that day if you want though...

x 2.


Starsky

[DaddyLongShanks]

Alpha,

Until your W comes back to you and says in no uncertain terms "what will it take to fix our M?", all your time snooping is pretty much time wasted.

They won't usually come back and say this. Usually someone out in the game will sit them on their ass and all of a sudden hubby or wifey looks like a hero.

You will drown yourself in a sea of speculation, and whether you are guessing correctly or not will make absolutely no difference to the outcome.

With good intel it might not be speculation at all. You might have a gold mind of facts, of situations on text, voice and video. You might have her actually conjugating with people you know who got it on tape. So no do not discount intel and call it guessing.

Use your time more wisely. Use your time to figure out what you want to be and where you want to be. Figure out the steps to get there and start on your journey. Don't wai
t until tomorrow, start now.

Does the answer have to always be that you need to end up with who was the current spouse. What if the current spouse had ALWAYS cheated on you. You where used for support and convenience. Would you want to keep that role?

If you follow that journey with conviction, you may find people joining you, maybe even your W. Perhaps not. And if she doesn't, it won't really matter since you know you are on the right path, with conviction, right?

Screw what she thinks, it's about you. And I don't think most betrayed spouses had to be "better" to keep their spouse from cheating. I think they just found a greedy spouse who would cheat. But the fallout from being cheated on does provide great impetus and drive if you allow it, to achieve and make yourself better.

Should you make yourself better for someone who never deserved you in the first place? No... Do it for you.

Realize that your value is not in chasing your W (or anyone else) in circles. Pick a point, draw a straight line, and go.

If your game is right they will come to you. Men or women. So focus on you.

I wish you the best.

[Ontheup]

Sell the tickets and don't mention anything about them I had the same issue. I just sold them and more than recouped my money. Ebay
As for your bday do something you want to do be that with or without your kids. Again don't mention it to your wife. If she brings it up then so be it. Don't expect anything from her either. My wife is so nuts she actually bought me chocolates on Valentine's when she had been out all day screwing OM. Laughable. And no I didn't eat them

You need to let go. Your wife did a long time ago. Sorry bud but it's the truth. its what we all struggle to deal with.

She's gone at the very least for the foreseeable future so get on living your own life. Just concentrate on you and your kids. Forget what w is doing because there is nothing you can do about that.

[Complex]

Yes alpha. I mean I do the same mistakes than you..or did. Just read your own poss here again and count the words W, she, her.
She's just still too much of a focus. You need to change that. It might take you some more time, just try to work on it.
You need to reach the point where this is only about you (and your children).

[alpha99]

You know what, I've thought long and hard about these comments above. I think I'm generally on the right path but everything you've all written above is true:

I need to stop checking on W.
I need to switch my focus over to myself and kids...completely
I won't include/invite W for birthday celebration.
I will try and sell the tickets to recoup my money.

I will continue in the same vein I have as I have these last two weeks as it seems to be working.

Now to today:

W called. I ignored it. I went for a walk around the block and called back. I asked did she want anything. She joked back 'yeah, of course, or I wouldnt have rang you'. She also asked why my number comes up as private. Didn't tell her I changed my phone settings. I was upbeat, acted as if. Reason for her call: I'm picking the kids up from hers instead of MIL apparently due to them ot having coats at MIL (I have coats for them). Hmmm.

Weather has cooled off a lot today. Gonna have to find something to do with the kids.

[Sotto]

Good thinking with all of the above Alpha. You are on the right track and doing really well. Sell the tickets to fund a lovely birthday plan for you! And don't dither hoping your W may ask about your B'day. Just make your plans and go for it!

Hmm, rainy day activities with those lovely kids....swimming, baking, bowling, crafts, movie, indoor play centre, coffee and a magazine, umbrellas walk...

Hope you enjoy yourselves, whatever you end up doing....

[alpha99]

Thanks toots for the advice. I think I will go out somewhere myself during the day time of my birthday and maybe arrange a family meal for the evening time. There's still a few weeks to fine tune plans. I won't involve W in them. If she pipes up about doing something then I'll consider that if/when it happens.

A quick exchange of the children today - literally a minute or so at the door. Pleasant enough just not much said. Kids are excited about the grand national. They asked me to phone W to see what horse she had picked.

I let the kids speak to W on phone, spoke for a moment, then said bye.

A few minutes later W called back with the names of some other horses she has picked. A 5 minute pleasant conversation then ensued...mainly about betting. We made a connection over W liking to have a once a year flutter on the horse race.

W: you know me, it's pointless betting 'each way' when it's only once a year (Validated by me).

I mention this because it's the first sort of positive thing she has mentioned about our past together since BD. It does feel good to know we do have a long shared history and maybe she is realising slowly it wasn't all bad (I used to actually place our grand national bets but W used to get really involved, revved up and excited over it).

I've spent most of the morning with two excited kids explaining the ins and outs of horse racing. Weather has brightened up somewhat so going to take the kids to a local dam and have a nice walk around in the sun, making sure we're back in time for the gee gees!

I woke up this morning and later on realised that my first thoughts weren't about W or checking this board, but instead I was more serene. Maybe this was in part due to spending some of last night browsing a dating site. I haven't intended to date but just browsing and realising there's lots of other people about locally was interesting.

A problem I have is overanalysing every interaction with W. Seeing signs of improvement just makes me want jump right in and ask for everything I want. My patience is stopping me from doing that but oh man is it hard. I guess that's what self discipline is all about.

[alpha99]

Another busy day with the kids. I enjoy focusing on them. We are doing things we would never have done in the past just due to my lack of effort. Not that I'm lazy with my kids - far, far from it - more that in the past I would just hang around at home keeping the kids occupied with something and wait until W was around to all go out and do something together. Part of this was almost certainly my issue of low confidence in going out to places alone.

Now I'm out early morning in the park with them, taking them to places new and old, letting them explore their surroundings more when they're out, and giving them a little more freedom. I can just simply feel how much they love spending time with me. We tried to bring our children up to not be spoilt. They'd never had endless toys, computer games, gadgets and gizmos, didn't have a constant stream of sweets etc, and they never asked for anything. I prided myself on doing a good job in that regard. The sitch had changed that slightly recently but I feel them returning to how they've always been.

Our great day out today cost ABSOLUTELY NOTHING except petrol in the car. The kids had a great time with pre homemade snacks for our trip. We fed ducks, walked around a dam, had running races, walked through winding paths, went to the park, played football, played mini bowling at home, watched some science stuff.

Not much to report really sitch wise. In our conversation earlier on today W said to call her in the afternoon to let her know how the kids got on with their bets on the grand national. I thought about it and decided I wasn't going to call her. I thought I'd seem too keen, even if I did just basically pass the phone over to the kids. She hasn't called anyway so I guess that was the right decision and I'm happy I never called. The children are in bed now. W on a night out tonight. I'm having thoughts of her meeting someone else. The good thing about that is I'm learning to roll with it. There's nothing I can do. I don't control her. If she meets someone else then that's her choice. I'm not going to lie and say I wouldn't be bothered by it. It would hurt like hell. But what can I do?

Answer: Nothing.

Alternative answer: Be the best I can be FOR MYSELF and then maybe somewhere down the line she might see that and have a change of heart.

I read somewhere recently about pulling back/limiting availability and contact, but when there is contact to maximise it. I think that sums up my approach right now: LRT with emphasis on (in a casual manner) creating a positive connection each time we do interact.

[Sotto]

Glad you had a good day with the kids Alpha - all sounding good....

Just to comment on your answer - being the best I can be for myself. I would just put a fullstop there and lose the bit about your W after that. If you are truly becoming the guy you want to be, further down the line, you may not even be that bothered about what your W is or isn't noticing.

Ultimately the changes truly need to be for you, not your W. Please don't do things in the hope of re-attraction. That is purely a by-product. If you change with the 'hope' of re-attracting, your W will sense that, and you are unlikely to attract her. But if she sees you becoming a fabulous person in your own right, and not focusing on what she may think - that is very attractive. And this is why it truly needs to be for you....

[alpha99]

Hi Toots,

I completely agree with your analysis. I did mean that W noticing my changes would be a by product of the changes happening anyway. I feel confident on that front the changes are for me because I'm doing them at times when W is not present and not able to see them.

Just even going out to social events alone is a big thing for me. It is enabling me to develop self confidence. I am going to a pub quiz sometime next week where there will be a team of people playing together - none of which I know. That is scary...but at the same time exciting. I am hopeful of making new friends and acquaintances.

So to summarise what I'm working on right now:

* Maintaining my new and improved appearance. I am wearing smart clothes every day. I am maintaining personal hygiene like never before, brushing teeth twice a day, using deodorant every day, shaving every few days etc. This is going really well.

* Developing confidence. To do this I am getting out more. I've been to an Italian Meetup group. I am going to a pub quiz this week. I have been out and about with the children alone quite a few times now. This is going really well. To put this into perspective, for the first year I had a car I never paid at the till when putting petrol into the car. I sent my W or whoever was with me. I never went to the chippy or the corner shop right on our doorstep for household goods - I sent W. I would basically avoid most things wherever possible that required interacting with people I don't already know. I wouldn't ask people for directions. I wouldn't take up hobbies or pursue job opportunities because I was too shy to do so. I am working on this still to make it all more natural but the self confidence I'm finding is making my life more fulfilling. I no longer feel so held back. The irony is that my W has always felt that nothing bothers me, that I'm uber confident. I can be around people I know or standing up to people when surrounded by people I know, but overall I'm a shy person.

* Following on from above, when I met my W I was quiet, considerate, shy, easy going, an excellent listener. As we got to know each other, after the honeymoon period of say two years maybe, I started to listen less, impose my own thoughts more, be less considerate to her, displayed a front of confidence to some degree. I can see how I've changed. I can see how I need to find that earlier version of myself whilst working on an appropriate level of confidence.

* Cutting out sarcasm. When I read or hear people saying they're sarcastic it is always a turn off. It sounds as if they're acknowledging their not a nice, positive person. Now, I like to think I'm a fun person. I've had people comment many times over the years about how funny I can be. Close friends acknowledge this often. My W does not. She doesn't get jokes. A lot of my humour is steeped in sarcasm. This is not a nice trait. I think I have distanced friends and my W over the years by being incredibly sarcastic - we're talking an awful, awful lot of the time. I am trying hard to cut this right, right back.

* Being positive. OK, this one does incorporate my W but I am trying to be positive a lot more. I've read how being positive attracts people, not just partners but people in general. Obviously being sarcastic means tending to have a negative slant on things. I am trying to reverse that. For example, instead of complaining about poor weather, I might come up with positive ideas for things to do inside. I am being positive around my W and trying to reconnect with her through positive connections.

* Being less judgmental. This doesn't require much explanation. I'm just working on accepting people for who they are wherever possible.

I know a few of these things include my W in them but these changes are for me. They do include things W has pointed out in a negative light about me but they are also things I have come up with myself after taking a look in the mirror. I know I am a kind, decent, loyal and loving person. I also know I'm a nasty, manipulative, sarcastic, inconsiderate, selfish, hurtful know it all so and so on occasions too. I just want to remove those negative traits of my personality as much as possible and be a better person.

------------------

So, as for today: I dropped the kids back at MIL's. It was a 10 second handover. Hi, bye, see ya. NC from W. None expected. Apart from calling her as per the kids' request over the horse racing yesterday, I haven't initiated contact in 2 weeks now. I am working this morning, followed by watching a big sporting event on TV this afternoon, and then maybe a trip to the gym afterwards before settling down to relax this evening.

W had asked about the house sale last week. She was going to arrange for someone to come out and value the house on Monday. Well, it's Sunday and there's been no mention of an appointment. 2-3 days ago she did ask if the house was clean, whether any stuff still needed to be moved before Monday. I don't know what's going to happen there. With work and having the kids I've yet to get to see a L. I will do this Monday.

EDIT: I forgot to add: The most pertinent thing for me at the moment is the internal struggle between knowing that pulling back is the best thing to do right now and missing W an awful lot and wanting to reach out to her. I know my head can overrule my heart here...but it is bloody hard at times!

Each sitch is different of course but does anyone with experience here have an idea of the average time needed before a sitch such as mine (A, separated, rejecting spouse) may start to turn positively? I read somewhere in an old thread Wonka suggesting generally (not exactly my kind of sitch) 1-2 years.

Would you concur with that?

[indigo1]

Like you said, every sitch is different. It could be several months, two years, or never. That's why the focus is on you. My sitch swung back and forth like crazy in a relatively short period of time. When I had truly given up any hope was when it suddenly turned around in a matter of weeks and I was asked to move back home. There was plenty of rough time in regards to continued contact with OM and lies to follow though. Total time of my sitch was roughly 6-7 months if that helps.

[Ontheup]

Hey alpha

I to have browsed a dating site and it makes you realise there are loads of great women out there. The world does not start and end with your wife. If it doesn't work out with her you will find happiness with someone else. Your still plenty young and from your posts have a lot to offer

All in good time...

[alpha99]

Thanks Indigo and Ontheup,

I understand that *should* W ever have a change of heart it will be so on her timetable. I understand each sitch is different and I shouldn't try and set out some sort of timescale. Having said that, since we hear about a script so often, and maybe a very general sequence of events that get followed, it is interesting to know what happens with other people in a general sense in terms of time taken to reconcile.

I am very much only browsing the dating site at this point, more as a distraction than anything else, but there are plenty of other women about of course. I do hope that ultimately I have no need to go down that route.

------------------------------------------------

W called me about 30 minutes ago. To begin with she said she only called to say thank you to me for dropping the kids off on time at MIL's this morning. I accepted the thanks, offered thanks for calling, and was about to say bye and hang up.

W then said something along the lines of 'I have something to ask you, it doesn't matter if you have something planned because it's last minute, but do you want to have the kids on Monday instead of Tuesday?' It turns out W is off work tues, wed, thurs and so wants to rejig our days with kids to suit herself. I said unless there's a special reason to change I'd rather leave things as they are. She was fine, no complaining. In fact, throughout the whole conversation she was very pleasant. I guess that was the real reason for calling. We then talked briefly about the horse racing yesterday, how S6 picked the winning horse for his grandad's bet but he is allowed to keep the winnings. I spoke to S6 briefly on the phone about it, W said his face lit up.

This is what I don't understand, in our limited interactions we are getting along better than we have in months - both being nice, both being polite, being considerate of each other, no arguing. I know there could be many reasons for that from her, both genuine and deceitful - but I find it frustrating all the same. I think I'm going need a whole lot of patience to get through this. Luckily, when I have to be, I can be incredibly patient.

[alpha99]

Having a quiet day today.

Had missed call about an hour ago from W, she left voicemail:

'Hiya Alpha, it's only me, I'm just ringing up to say would you be able to pick the kids up at my mum's tomorrow because my mum is having them tonight as I'm working the late. Err any time tomorrow, you did say 9am - 9.30am didn't you? Just let me know so I can tell me mum. OK, see ya, see ya.'

VM left in a very pleasant sounding matter. When I saw the VM I walked around the block to call her back. She was very pleasant sounding on the phone. There was some slight awkwardness as beyond reiterating what had already been said there wasn't a lot more to say.

I had thought beforehand about how I wanted the call to go - keep it short, to the point, try and find something to agree on. She was ending the conversation listing when she will see me again: 'So I'll see you tomorrow, oh no I won't, I'll see you Wednesday as kids will be with my mum tomorrow.'

At this point I briefly outlined plans for the kids tomorrow as a means to ask that they wear appropriate clothes for the weather as we'll be outside for a while. W took it slightly the wrong way saying that it won't be her getting them ready. I said I knew that but was just asking they be ready in appropriate clothes for our trip out. She said her mum always has them ready. I didn't argue, just acknowledged that to be the case.

It was only a very minor thing but it was a good reminder how fragile relations are right now and how if I'm trying to reconnect from a distance then constant care and attention must be paid when communicating.

EDIT: Oh I just wanted to add that although Monday as potential house valuation day, W made no mention of it.

[twinmom]

Don't read into her actions..... Lots of reasons why she might not mention the house. Keep working on viewing her as a good mom, a wonderful person........ THIS change in how you see her and everyone around you is going to be a turning point in your life.

Good job on keeping your emotions in check lately! So proud of you...

[alpha99]

EDIT: Thanks for the praise twinmom - thanks for your help too. I am prone to mind reading aren't I? That is something to step back from as of course at the same time we're all listening intently to what S is saying etc.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, this may complicate things...

Remember me saying W had signed up to dating site a short while back, and how I had signed up to just have a browse around? Well, yesterday I added a picture just for a laugh. One feature of the site is being able to see who has viewed your profile.

Can you guess what's coming next?

W has viewed my profile on the site...and must know that I have seen hers via the same feature. As I wrote previously, I have no intention of dating now. I only added the pic to see if anyone got in touch - more out of idle curiosity and a bit of a laugh than anything else.

I wonder what W is going to make of this. I will see her next when returning the kids on Wednesday. She has already been clearly wondering what I've been up to. I plan on making the most of a slightly bad situation. I won't bring it up. I feel each time I casually mention I'm doing something of an evening time she will assume it's a date.

Any suggestions on what my response should be should she bring it up?

MIND READING: It could be seen by her as a way that I'm moving on. I don't think she would simply accept I was just browsing and it was a bit of a laugh. My instinct is to not even tell her that was the case. Would that be the right thing to do? This might provoke anger from her. It might also be the first concrete sign for her that SHE is actually losing ME! A million other possibilities exist.

EDIT2: I have just deleted the dating account.

[Complex]

Alpha. I've done the same thing a while ago.
I don't see a reason why you would delete it again. Do what YOU feel like. Dont just REACT to W. It helps me to look around. Talk to some people. It does NOT mean you have to date or do anything like that.
If W asks, tell her you are not going to date or sleep with anyone. If she believes you it not your concern.
Yes it can go both ways, make her mad or realize you are trying to move on. As far as I know your sitch I don't think there's anythinv you have to fear from her at this point. Just still be the best alpha you can.
Only thing is that it might look a bit hypocritical compared to your values an moral. But you're not doing anything wrong, you're not planning on doing something actively. So there's absolutely NOTHING for your W to complain about, because THAT would be hypocritical!!

[alpha99]

I realised that although it was nice to look, if I am going to stand for my M, which I am, then I should focus my efforts towards that - GAL, 180s, reconnecting with W etc.

One thing I said a few weeks ago was as I feel right now I will still stand for my M until the day arrives that W does something that I feel there is no coming back from - buying a house with someone else, getting married to someone else, becoming pregnant with someone else, in a long term committed relationship with someone else. Until then I will try to live my life and move forward but at the same time remain open to the idea of R with her one day in the future.

[Complex]

Did the exact same thing. Until I realized it's eventually going to hold me back living my life the way and want to and being happy. Doesn't mean I'm not willing to recommit to my marriage. But how can th fully commit to something that doesn't exist anymore?
If God decides to lead you two together at a point in your life so be it. In the meantime you have to move on and take care of your own happiness. That's all that's left.
You are like me still young tho and you have a full life ahead of you regarding family and partner. Of course this is not as easy for you bc of the children that are involved.
Which in my opinion makes me think you are doing the right thing.

What I wanted to say is: you feel that way now, which is ok. But don't be surprised if your opinion changes and your focus truly switches to yourself. In the end this will be the only way for a completely new R with your W anyway. And if it doesn't happen you didn't waste years of your life being stuck.

[alpha99]

Had a great day today with the kids. We visited relatives, went to the park, they played with their cousins etc. In the afternoon we went out with my parents and had ice cream, a nice walk through the shops, and a little go on the funfair.

Throughout the day I've thought of W and our sitch.

Now I feel sick to the pit of my stomach. The reason? Well, it seems my dating website shenanigans have backfired spectacularly...

My W has added pictures to her profile on the website...taken I guess from before her night out last weekend.

She looks stunning.

I guess this was done as a riposte to seeing my profile on there - a profile only set up through boredom really. How stupid I feel now.

How do I deal with this? I am taking the kids to her in the morning. Should I mention it at all or not? Should I explain my (lack of) intentions about the website? I was thinking of sending her a joke message via that website asking if I could get a date. My gut tells me that would be a bad idea.

I feel what she may have signed up to on a whim (like me) might now become something she pursues with a great zeal as a means to show me how she's moving on. She has certainly only added the profile pic after seeing my profile on there yesterday. Does this mean her and OM are over? Does that even matter at this point?

I just feel sick right now. Bad enough an affair with someone she bonds with over time, but now advertising herself on the internet...whoa. Yeah, I know, I've done the same (since deleted the account).

She could have a date in about 5 seconds if she wanted one.

What have I done?

[alpha99]

I can't edit the post above.

It's taking all I have to not reach out to her right now.

It would seem inevitable this will come up tomorrow morning. Should I clear the air by stating it was mere boredom for me? Should I ask her intentions? Should I act as if I'm not bothered? I just want to cry right now. I'm pretty close to it to be honest.

[Drew]

A wise man once told me, "If you're explaining, you're losing."

Lots of mindreading here.

You can't change what you did. What's done is done. Bringing it up only adds to its perceived significance.

Let it lie. If it comes up, and ONLY if it comes up, shrug it off.

"Oh that? I was just messing around."

She knows it's not on there anymore.

[Drew]

It would seem inevitable this will come up tomorrow morning.

You really need to stop with the assumptions.

They're driving you crazy.

And making you appear weak and wimpy.

VERY unattractive.

[Starsky309]

DE-FRIGGING-TACH!!!


Dude, you are OBSESSING over her. HOW long have you been here? HOW many people have posted to you, HOW many total posts of advice?

Alpha, I'll be honest, I find myself posting to you less because 99% of your posts are just obsessing over how to act around your wife. You're . . . stuck. You're never going to make progress until you detach, it's pretty much Step #1 and you haven't even accomplished it yet.

Yes, you've gotten better -- even MUCH better -- at your interactions with her, but that's a minor, "tactical" thing compared to the big, over-arching mindset and goal of DETACHMENT.

I honestly don't know what to even tell you anymore.


Starsky

[Starsky309]

You can't change what you did. What's done is done. Bringing it up only adds to its perceived significance.

Let it lie. If it comes up, and ONLY if it comes up, shrug it off.

"Oh that? I was just messing around."

Perfect.


Starsky

[alpha99]

Right, thank you.

I posted here before doing something stupid like contacting her. Even just taking a pasting from you guys has made me feel better.

Starksy, I really, really appreciate your advice. I am finding this hard, that is clear to everyone. I know you offer tremendous advice and I'd be/have been stupid not to follow it as you clearly know what you're on about.

Thanks, Drew. I will shrug it off should it come up.

I read lots of other peoples' threads and I see the difference in how I zoom in on every little detail.

Starksy, as ever you're right. I've read detach, detach, detach...and I've not.

So, this is it! From now on I'm just simply going to give it everything in an attempt to detach. I have to interact with her on a semi regular basis over the kids but I am going to dive headlong into my life. No checking emails, IM, YouTube, whatever.

A consoling thought it the number of people here who have had their S move in with other people, date others etc etc and still things one day work out. I understand detaching is not giving up - and I'm clearly not doing that - just accepting what will be will be.

With potential house sale coming up that (detaching) is going to be difficult. As with my comments in Rysin's thread earlier, I'm just after advice on how to do this. I need all the help I can get. I appreciate all the help I am getting. Thank you all so much.

[Ontheup]

I can't edit the post above.

It's taking all I have to not reach out to her right now.

It would seem inevitable this will come up tomorrow morning. Should I clear the air by stating it was mere boredom for me? Should I ask her intentions? Should I act as if I'm not bothered? I just want to cry right now. I'm pretty close to it to be honest.

Alpha

Cmon! You have got to stop all this. You know the answer to all of the above. It's no no no.
Do not mention a thing to her about the site.
You are better and worth more than this. Your wife does not define who you are.

We all cry some times so don't beat yourself up about it but you have got to move on. I can tell you the only way I have started to feel better is by letting my wife go and moving on with my life. Do I still miss her? Of course I do but I'm not sitting here hoping or checking up on what's she doing because it holds you back. You are paralysed by fear at the moment. What are you afraid of? She has left and as it stands she isn't coming back. You will carry on with or without her for you, for your kids, for someone else you will meet one day.
It's just life my friend and it carries on regardless.

[alpha99]

Right...

I'm putting my money where my mouth is...figuratively speaking.

IM, YouTube, emails, dating app...ALL GONE.

There's nothing to check anymore.

Time to live MY life.

I'm going to bed now. I'll be dreaming of playing with my beautiful children.

[alpha99]

I woke up feeling generally a lot better this morning. With all the apps and things to check gone, I feel like I finally have a clear head.

I took the kids back to W. The dating site issue did come up. A funny thing happened - we both laughed quite a bit. We agreed it seemed a strange thing to see each other on there. I did shrug it off and say that I was just doing it out of boredom.

W insists her cousin created the account for her. She says she is not interested in meeting anyone. I said that's up to her and none of my business. She said it is full of desperados. I agreed.

The kids went and played elsewhere and we spoke for a few minutes. A few things came out of this conversation.

* One stumbling block to R is that W thinks my family have turned against her (not so) due to knowing about her A. She says no one has visited/contacted her/her with kids since we split up(she asked them not to). I told her this was not the case.

* She's in no rush to divorce. At this point says she doesn't want to meet anyone else. Would only divorce at some point way off in future if she met someone else. She just said we are separated...but the next step would be divorce. I acknowledged this and said it can either go one of two ways; yes we divorce, or we one day work things out.

* OM has left for a new job and she insisted that it is well over with him now.

* Doesn't want to give me false hope as she feels R is unlikely.

* She is struggling financially and doesn't have a lot of money and can't really go out much.

* She apologised for the affair. She said her mum was aware of the flirting and warned her not to proceed. She said at the time of engaging in the affair she hated me and although initially felt guilt, after a few liaisons no longer felt any. She says she knows she should have ended our R first now.

* She says I was controlling and I drained the love from her. She says she doesn't love me now.

* She says we weren't compatible together but acknowledges we are getting along very well now we are apart.

* She acknowledged the sitch is very hard and she is not happy that we are in it...followed by 'but there's nothing we can do.'

------------------------------------------------------------

I did not plan on having this R talk, it just sorta happened. The good news is that there was no emotion involved. We just talked and what she said did seem to be a (mainly) honest account of how she feels and where things stand.

I largely just listened to her and validated her feelings. I did chip in with with a few comments along the way but no outpouring of emotion or anything, just acknowledging what she'd said and extended the point on occasion. Although things were said that on the face of it should leave me feeling hurt, I don't feel so at all.

I'm back at home now working (having a little break to write this out) and just getting on with things. Last night I realised that if I hang on every word, action, email, app etc then I will be forever strapped to the rollercoaster of emotions and never be able to move forward in my life. Despite everything said by W today I do feel optimism, not just for any potential R, but also for my own life. I hope we work things out of course but I am going to largely let time and my actions independent of my W be the determining factors here from now on.

[Drew]

So, you have been given a gift. The gift of time.

Use it wisely.

Detach.

[alpha99]

Thanks Drew.

On a different note...

Had a missed call from W, so called her back a short while ago.

Expecting the usual child related call, in fact she wanted to know what I was doing with the concert tickets I mentioned the other day. I said I didn't know, hadn't thought about it. She offered to buy them from me. Not wanting to make a spur of the moment decision I said let me think about it. She got a little stroppy and said 'forget about it, it doesn't matter' and couldn't really get off the phone quick enough.

I will have a think about it. Being honest, first thoughts were I'd like to go with her and who she may want to go with etc. None of that mentioned in call. Reflecting a few minutes later, if she wants the tickets I will sell them to her. I need the money. She wants the tickets. I remembered I have no control over the who/what/where/why in her life. I'm trying to detach.

It just shows though that little things that you think get lost in the 'noise' are being thought about. It's the first time the tickets have been mentioned by her in about 9 weeks. That's something to think about regarding 180s, behavioural changes, GAL activities etc.

[Ontheup]

Hey alpha

If she wants the tickets let her buy them from you but don't make a big deal about them. She either wants them or she doesn't. end of. Oh and definitely no asking anything if she does buy the tickets. Same as you wouldn't ask a stranger. Show no interest.

As far as the rest of her conv all looks pretty standard WAW script. Don't read anything into it.

OM has left.- So what, why does that effect you and your way forward. They could quite easily still be in contact.

Recon and false hope UNLIKELY - It shouldn't effect you. Keep moving forward. do not pin anything onto her saying UNLIKELY (e.g. not definitely).

Struggling financially - tough sh!t. not your problem

Apologised for the affair - lol, sorry just doesn't cut it. They have no idea the devastation they leave behind. She is absolving herself of guilt. no true remorse shown here.

You were controlling - so then why did she stay with you for 10+years and have 2 kids with you? More Bullsh!t to push the blame onto you. I doubt very much you have had a complete personality transplant in those 10 years. Yes you're to blame for your share in the marriage failings. does that give her the right to start sleeping with someone else? no way! she should have come to you and said "things between are this bad, if we don't sort them out I want out of the marriage" she didn't, She acted like a coward.

Weren't compatible - lol again standard script see above. she stayed for 10 years. it just doesn't wash

Doesn't love you - This is what most fail to realise. Love is an action, not the feelings of infatuation that wear off after first couple of years. Again standard stuff from a WAW. Very immature in her thinking.

Sounds like you did well not getting drawn in. This usually annoys the WAW even more when they see you aren't dancing to their tune any more.
Keep detaching, keep moving forward.
If your wife wants you back you will know about it and it will take more than a "sorry can we forget about it now" conversation. They would all love just to forget about it and be friends. No way. If she wants you back she should be moving heaven and earth to make that happen.
Like I said last night you are a young man with a lot to offer. Your wife is not the only women in the world.


Well done on getting rid of all the snooping stuff. I know its tempting but just don't do it. You'll feel better for it

[Starsky309]

Thanks Drew.

On a different note...

Had a missed call from W, so called her back a short while ago.

Expecting the usual child related call, in fact she wanted to know what I was doing with the concert tickets I mentioned the other day. I said I didn't know, hadn't thought about it. She offered to buy them from me. Not wanting to make a spur of the moment decision I said let me think about it. She got a little stroppy and said 'forget about it, it doesn't matter' and couldn't really get off the phone quick enough.

Then no need to call or text her back at all. If you need the money, then put up an ad on CraigsList (or the UK equiv) and sell them, and if she asks you about it, say "Well you said 'forget it,' so I sold them to someone else."


Starsky

[alpha99]

This website is a lifeline. I am lucky to get such great support and advice from people here. Thank you.

Starksy, I thought momentarily about calling her back earlier after making a decision - but I haven't - and I won't. I'll see her tomorrow when getting the kids but not mention anything about tickets. I will try to sell them elsewhere. I'm beginning to see now it's about making choices, real choices and decisions, solely for me (and my children) at this point.

Ontheup, thanks for dissecting that conversation post. You are spot on. I did validate her. For example, about finances I said 'yeah, it must be tough. I know that's difficult for you right now'. I did not accept blame for the affair. She did in fact accept that she was wrong there and it was her choice. As you say, a simple apology doesn't begin to cover the pain I've felt by her betrayal.

I felt a sense of her searching around her thoughts, partly signaling things were settling, partly signaling too much had happened for it to be redeemable. I'm learning not to worry about it anyway.

The conversation ended by me saying I don't want to pressure you at all about anything and just leaving with a 'see ya.'

I know I am responsible for my failings in the relationship. For that I take my share of the blame. Having an affair was her choice. I have previously said to her she could have come, sat me down and spoken to me about her specific problems in the R and I would have listened, or she could have just ended our R.

Regarding control, she has a point. I had a tight grip on our finances. Without going over it all again ad nauseum, it is simply a candidate for a 180 in the future. I don't feel I've changed dramatically over our time together, just settled down as people do. Her epilepsy (causing blanks, doseyness as side effects of her meds) meant over time I grew to have little patience with her due to some of her negative traits. This led to disputes and I would shout at her, call her stupid, nasty names. I have been taking a long look in the mirror over that. With W or not, this is something I would never engage in again. My financial management did ensure regular holidays (11 on our last 2 years together), overpayment of our mortgage (would have finished it over 10 years early), and enough money left to have meals out, socialise etc etc
...

W told me today she can't afford a foreign holiday this year, no money to go out with her friends, finding it difficult with bills to pay. I couldn't help but think 'maybe one day you'll see that things weren't so bad after all.'

[alpha99]

I'd arranged to meet W in town today to exchange kids. She didn't turn up, didn't answer her phone, didn't reply to text. I was on the verge of going back home when she finally called. Apparently she'd forgotten the arrangements and I need to remind her because she has a lot on her mind, 'bills to think about, and worrying about other things as well.' I did bring up that I wasn't happy but I didn't make a big deal out of it. She begrudgingly said sorry and that she didn't want to argue...amongst complaints of paying for the children on the bus (not my problem) etc.

I went to get the kids. On the way I thought of the act as if example in MWD's book. I imagined W would be expecting me to nag her still over her not turning up. Instead I gave a big smile and a bright hello. She reciprocated. I waited inside whilst W got kids ready. We chatted pleasantly, with no.mention of tickets or not turning up. She looked lovely. We chatted about mundane things, how she has spots on her back, the weather, the kids' morning out. She seemed in no rush for me to leave as on other occasions. We left with pleasant goodbyes and she was outlining when she'd see me next, along with her plans for this afternoon.

I've had the Kidd this afternoon. We've been to the park, played games, had tea, and bow they're going to bed.

Time to GAL. I'm going to my first pub quiz via meetup soon. I'm a bit nervous as I don't know anyone but also looking forward to it. GAL is.something else to focus on.and I feel good.

Edit: sorry for typos - typed via mobile

[alpha99]

I went to the local meetup pub quiz tonight. There were 10 people. They all seemed nice people, and a good mix of ages. They do a lot of things in the local area. I am definitely going to get into socialising in their group a lot more - quizzes, cinema trips, theatre trips, meals, walks, comedy night outs etc. The Italian meetup group is great but it's once a month. With the local social group I could be out every other night or so. There was an attractive girl there about my age. She chatted to me a bit. She has emailed since I've got home to say it was nice seeing you. That seems to be a common meetup thing so not reading much into it. It's better than a kick in the pants though. It just shows that there are plenty more fish in the sea should it one day come to that.
GAL certainly makes it easier to detach. Through circumstance I probably won't see W until a week on Saturday. In that time I plan to be out 2-3 more times making new friends. On reflection I do miss her but I plan to be so busy that I don't have time to dwell on that.

Tonight I did something I would never have dreamt of doing - turning up to an event alone and meeting new people. I feel proud of myself. Whatever happens sitch wise, this is how I want to live my life from now on...

[Starsky309]

I applaud your growth in this area, Alpha! Good job!!!


Starsky

[alpha99]

Thanks Starksy! I appreciate that this sort of thing gets noticed

Well, today is the best I've felt since BD. I had a great night out last night. As I wrote in my last post, I will definitely be doing more of that kind of thing. The people were nice, the quiz was fun, and I had a great evening. I get the feeling I could make some good, new friends by continuing this. As it seems is common, a few more people sent messages saying it was nice to see you there. Certainly my mood is the best it has been in the last few months. Recently I've been quiet with my family and they've been stuck on how to deal with that. They have largely left me alone to deal with things and I've felt quite alone and abandoned because of it. I have been talking a lot more with them today, just about general day to day stuff, almost back to my old self. For the first time in a while I've been able to be positive about the future and future plans without thoughts of my sitch overriding everything.

The girl I mentioned in the post above has messaged me to invite me out tomorrow evening for another kind of meetup thing - gig in another town. She sent the message privately via that site but says that it might become an official meetup group activity. It's not showing as one yet. I don't know what to make of it. It might be fun to go out, and it's highly likely that my tendency to overanalyse things means I'm reading more into it than there is; maybe it is just simply an invite to do something - I don't know the dynamics of the website well enough to know how common this sort of invite would be, but at the same time I don't want to be in a compromising situation. Plus I don't know if I'll go because it will be a struggle with having the kids until they go to bed - but it is nice to be asked.

I am working today (having a little break to type this). I dropped the kids back this morning. The kids brought new toys with them as I picked them up yesterday. Upon dropping them off today at MIL's she said 'oh, new toys, hmmm.' She obviously thought they had come from me and I could tell she was implying I was spoiling them. It's not really any of her business but I did politely say 'oh those, they're from W, not me.' That changed her tune. She said, 'oh right, well I'm saying nothing, just going to bite my tongue.' I said 'yeah, I know... me too.' Understandably because it's her daughter, but when W does something wrong it seems to get glossed over, but if it was me you can be sure that it gets mentioned - that's how it feels anyway. It doesn't really matter though because at this point I don't care what they think about me. I know I'm a good, decent person. I have my faults like everyone else but generally speaking in my whole life there has been no more than a handful of people who I've seen on a regular basis that I haven't gotten along with, so I guess I can't quite be the hideous mutant monster that my W has me pegged as right now.

[alpha99]

Couldn't edit the post above but here's the edit I wanted to make:

EDIT: Upon reading this back, maybe I overegged the last sentence. W and I are getting on better but clearly since we're not together she has issues with me like my attitude, past behaviour, unloving nature, or whatever feelings she has from the ball of confusion inside my head. The main thing is I'm learning not to spend any time worrying about it. I know who I am. I know what I want. I know I can't have it right now - or maybe ever! I can live with that as I am slowly moving forward with my life. The one thing I can never move on from is that I want my children to have the best chance in life possible. Yeah, I know, we all love our kids. I'm not saying they're great at X or better than Y's kids. I'm just saying I love them so incredibly that I can't help but feel some shame when I think of them potentially growing up outside of a traditional family set up. It's not what I want. Almost as much as myself maybe selfishly wanting a R with W is the feeling of wanting our children to have their mum and dad together being happy to set them a great example in life. W doesn't want that right now - and may never. Again, I know I have no say in that but I do feel shame that my past actions have of course somewhat contributed to things being the way they are now. I guess I just have to plough on with what I'm doing and let time take its course, in the hope that one day things do work out.

[Ontheup]

great stuff alpha

attention from other women does wonders for your self confidence.

Up to you whether you take her up on her invite.

[Complex]

Interesting how similar our sitch and development are alpha. Glad you did what you did and hope you'll keep up the good work!
Take chances, don't look back, no regrets!!!

[alpha99]

Hey Onetheup and Complex, thanks for the kind words of encouragement.

After taking the kids back this morning I've mainly worked all day. I went for a long walk around the local area this evening. Whilst out I got another message (via email) from the girl at the quiz last night. This lead to exchanging phone numbers. I'm writing this to be clear to myself: I DO NOT WANT TO DATE! I wouldn't be surprised if I had gotten it all wrong anyway and she was just being friendly - it's been so long I can't read the signs between friendly and something else - so who knows?

All I know is that making new friends and having some female company (as a friend) is surely a good thing. I'm pretty convinced that part of the problem between W and I is that neither of us had a regular social outlet with our own friends whilst together in recent years and so we spent too much time together/were dependent on each other to some degree. I am building a new life for myself now; it's at once both scary and exciting.

It does feel like a switch has been flicked from how I've felt up until now and despite a few false dawns and posts on here describing how well I felt I was doing (when in fact looking back, up until now good feelings have been rather momentary amid intense feelings of drowning in sorrow and self pity), now I am having some sustained period of time actually feeling HAPPY!

When I stop and think about things (which is an improvement over constantly thinking about things) I do of course feel loss (W) and shame (kids), whether that's rightly or wrongly to do so. If I had to I could live a life without W, co-parenting our kids and showing them nothing but love. I think I'm getting to grips also with the idea that if I had to I could eventually move on and be happy with someone else. Don't get me wrong, I want to save my marriage - that's why I'm here after all - but if according to the vets here the way to do that is by detaching, then I feel like I am making massive strides in that regard in a short space of time.

But...there's always a but...

I need to stay clear of sentimental music. I was listening to a new album by an artist I like, and this lead me inadvertently to listening to a few love songs that reminded me of W. I did cry for a moment, just a moment, and was tempted to send her a link to the song (but didn't)...and now I feel great again. I guess these waves will come and go but I do feel stronger than before, much more so, to the point where if things don't work out I don't think I'll lose my head as I did immediately post BD but instead find a way to roll with the punches and get on with life. Let's see what tomorrow holds eh!

[Sotto]

Alpha, good for you with extending yourself in the way you have been! Watch yourself with the friendly woman though - I don't think any woman extends those kind of invites unless she's attracted to you and interested in dating..and as you've said yourself - you don't want to date!!

Have a good weekend - going to be a sunny one I think

[Ontheup]

Hey alpha

You will get triggers for a long time. Things will always crop up that upset you, songs , tv, films, places, stuff yiur kids say. Time is the healer here. And no do not send any sad songs to your wife.

[alpha99]

Toots, thanks for your words of caution. I know this could be a minefield if done wrongly. My intent is to GAL and make new friends. I need to keep that closely in mind.

Ontheup, thanks for the pointers. The sad reality is that everywhere I turn there are memories of one sort or another. Detaching is helping to separate the memory from its associated emotion.

Another fun filled day with my kids. I took them to an old stately home with gardens now turned public park. We played football, walked around the gardens, had an ice cream, played in the play area, and went into the little petting zoo. They loved it. Back home for dinner then a long afternoon walk followed by football in the local park.

I did take up the offer of going out tonight. It wasn't an official meetup thing and it turned out there was only me there (besides a pub full of people). I felt a bit of a lemon. Girl who invited me turned out to be the singer of the band playing. Small pub venue. We chatted briefly before, quite a lot in the break, and briefly again afterwards. She was really friendly, seemed nice, and I would like to make friends with her. Ultimately I had a good night.

Edit: hmm after I texted a thanks for the invite, she replied saying it would be nice to get to know me.

This past week to ten days has really been a detachment 101 crash course. I've been for many walks, visited relatives without moping about, enjoyed time with my kids, and been out socially on three occasions, and hopefully made a/some new friend(s). The intense feelings for W have diminished. I can do things and think about her less and less. Change of plans this morning meant I saw her briefly as I picked kids up. Without being cold I was a bit more reserved. Maybe in the past I've mixed being upbeat with being overly enthusiastic. It's a fine balance gauging it right. I don't know, maybe. All I know is with this detached feeling it's a lot easier to be less emotionally attached and responsive to W. I still want things to work out because a) she's my wife, and b) my kids don't deserve any of this.

I am feeling happier in myself though with the knowledge that if they don't I'll be fine.

[Ontheup]

Glad you had a great time with Kids. Ive had a fantastic weekend in the sun with d8.
Triggers get easier or they have for me anyway. I couldn't listen to nay music at first without (apart from my rave music ) it sending tears down my face. Couldn't watch certain TV programs, films or go to certain places. Over the last few months this has got easier. By no means gone but easier. Your initial strong emotions that make you do crazy things do die down and that is when you truly start detaching.

[alpha99]

Hi onetheup,

I'm glad you had a lovely weekend with your D. Time with your children is truly a precious thing isn't it, especially since they grow up so quickly.

I do feel I'm on the right path with regards to detachment. I haven't checked anything W related since I deleted/logged out of everything. Now, when I do think of W, which is less than it was even just 2 weeks ago, I no longer feel that aching longing for her. Truly starting to GAL has helped enormously for that. in fact I do have the worry that I become too detached, to the point where I become indifferent to the chance of R. There's no point denying that potential female attention has played a part in that. I don't want to date. I have thought of the John Lennon line 'life is what happens while you're busy making plans' though. I guess it's a personal decision but at what point do you say enough is enough and move on with your life. One thing that stops me in my tracks is the determental affects on my children caused by a D.

A month ago if W had wanted to reconcile I'd have bitten her hand off. Hypothetical I know but now I would have to consider whether it is really, really what I want. At what point do I put my own happiness in front of that of my children. Doing so would seem so incredibly selfish. I do love my W still, just I feel I've moved to the point where it's not an all conquering thing, it's something that can be held in check and I am in control over whether I open the door to those deep and intense feelings again or not.

[Ontheup]

Hey alpha

totally get what you mean.
I would have to seriously think long and hard if my wife wanted to R now. The mountain to climb for both of us looks impossible at the moment. Im under no illusions though as I don't believe my wife has any intent currently to want to R and to be honest the way I feel neither do I. that may change though who knows.
Good stuff on no checking up on wife. The feeling to do so will still be there but it helps you detach in not doing so.
D is definitely detrimental to your kids but this is not in your control. You didn't want to separate I presume? I certainly didn't but I was left with no choice. These are the cards we have been dealt and this is the hand we have to play. I think long and hard about wanting my wife back but it isn't my wife of the last few years I want back, its the memories of my wife from earlier happier times I want. For men a lot of it is getting over your ego and pride that another man has taken "your" woman.
Its up to you what point you think you need to just move on. Completely let go. Ive seen some stand for a very long time. To me it is a limbo existence. I have already lived like that for a very long time. Scared about losing my wife. Truth is that I had already lost her. I just didn't know it. When I stopped being afraid I started to move on and feel better. your life is not defined by your wife. She is just a part of it. How will she be part of it in the future you are not to know.

Just be the best dad you can be. Life carries on.

[alpha99]

The girl from the quiz and I have been texting. I am going to meet up with her sometime this week. I guess it's a date.

I know, I know...but I have given this serious thought.

Altho W is being nice for sake of kids, she does not want to R in any way. More recently I've been asking myself if I truly do too. Recent posts on others' threads have hit home: I can't put my life on hold for something that may never happen. I've been slowly coming to this conclusion over recent weeks. I see W from a distant perspective now. Less contact and time apart, her refusal to work on M, some female attention; they've all played a part in getting here. I am detached. If W said she wanted a D tomorrow that would be OK. I've wanted things to work out so badly for so long but now I am making the decision to move on with my life. I will always be there for my kids. I will always have a place in my heart for the time spent with my W. Maybe there will be a day sometime in the future where things change. I don't know. All I know is you can't love the ghost of what once was when things have changed. She doesn't love me, want me, had EA/PA, moved out and moved on. I've lost weight, been through shock, grieved, obsessed, and now I feel quite at peace. I am worth far more than this. I've been through the biggest hell of my life. I survived. Now I'm thriving.

I don't know what will happen with the women I've met. I will be honest and up front with her. She's very attractive and I am curious to see what happens. If that turns out to be nothing then so be it, but I don't intend of moping around and longing for a life that has already sailed away. I will do everything in my power to ensure my children are as happy as they can be but ultimately I have to live my life too, preferably a happy life, and I haven't been happy in a while now. It's time to change that.

[Complex]

Glad to see how your thinking has changed alpha.
Here's some tips because I'm 1-2 weeks ahead of you in my sitch lol:
1. Dating will change your perception. Don't forget we are victims of ups and downs, highs and lows. So your feelings towards W might even change again. It's part of the process of fading out our feelings for WAW. Plus you might get a decent confidence boost from meeting someone else. This might be noticed by W, increase her interest in you, etc; which might you look at her a little different again. Sounds complicated. It is! I'm not a fan of these kind of 'games', I hate it. But it's part of our sitch.
So just be aware of what the new situation might cause. Stay true to yourself and you can't mess it up.
2. Good you want to be honest with OW. Don't overdo it tho. Be a gentleman but also do not talk about your past. It's ok for OW to know the facts, that you are S for a long time and have children but reconciliation is not an option anymore. Keep it simple. If she asks for details tell her it's still too private for now bc you barely know her but you don't have any secrets.
Just blend your past out. Focus on the now on your date. Give your date attention, be yourself and make her laugh. Rather let her talk more and ask questions and listen. You'll notice you won't think of W..at least for the night
3. Reflect on your feelings afterwards, but don't take it too serious and give yourself some laughter. Give it a thought "am I truly ready to move on into another R"? Most likely you are not it's too early. But a simple date could at least be a step into to right direction.

[alpha99]

Written yesterday but somehow not posted:

I bumped into W by chance whilst out and about this morning. She was cordial enough but it was like meeting an acquaintance you haven't seen in a while more than anything else. I felt little for her. Cleary she felt just as little for me. After parting ways she ended up walking on the opposite pavement in an embarrassed fashion whilst I met approaching relatives on the other side of the road.

Later in the day she called, mainly to complain about money. I said I won't be her on call bank. She made vague threats over child maintenance payments but we agreed over moving forward with house sale and a few other things. It seems we'll be able to get along well enough for the kids but amazingly I have virtually zero desire to work things out right now. I feel for my children but I am seeing W in a different light. The kind, caring person has been replaced by a selfish, manipulative, greedy person. I find her less attractive now.

During our call D was briefly mentioned. I'm at the point where that word doesnt strike fear into my heart anymore. As our sitch stands now it is the logical outcome. It's not that I've given up, it's just I've completely detached. I can't spend life hanging on for the wind to change direction when it seemingly never will. If months or years down the line she came back to the person she was and wanted to R, that's something I'd have to deal with then. It's not a given I'd want her back then. I may have moved on completely. I'm not holding out for that day anymore anyway. I plan to live my life the best I can, do my children proud, do new things, meet new people, and experience life in a new way for me.

All of that leads me to tomorrow. I am going out in the evening with my new friend. I guess just the two of us for a meal and cinema means it's a date right? I will play it by ear and casually drop in 'separated/kids' where appropriate if it has the air of a date.

[DaddyLongShanks]

Written yesterday but somehow not posted:

I bumped into W by chance whilst out and about this morning. She was cordial enough but it was like meeting an acquaintance you haven't seen in a while more than anything else. I felt little for her. Cleary she felt just as little for me. After parting ways she ended up walking on the opposite pavement in an embarrassed fashion whilst I met approaching relatives on the other side of the road.

After someones disrespected you time and time again and smacked your head into a wall over and over again, you might start to feel this way.

Later in the day she called, mainly to complain about money. I said I won't be her on call bank. She made vague threats over child maintenance payments but we agreed over moving forward with house sale and a few other things. It seems we'll be able to get along well enough for the kids but amazingly I have virtually zero desire to work things out right now. I feel for my children but I am seeing W in a different light. The kind, caring person has been replaced by a selfish, manipulative, greedy person. I find her less attractive now.

Now you can SEE. Nope, it isn't attractive. I understand the lack of desire. You do not like the person that she is. And what she is shown you is what she is to you.

During our call D was briefly mentioned. I'm at the point where that word doesnt strike fear into my heart anymore. As our sitch stands now it is the logical outcome. It's not that I've given up, it's just I've completely detached. I can't spend life hanging on for the wind to change direction when it seemingly never will. If months or years down the line she came back to the person she was and wanted to R, that's something I'd have to deal with then. It's not a given I'd want her back then. I may have moved on completely. I'm not holding out for that day anymore anyway. I plan to live my life the best I can, do my children proud, do new things, meet new people, and experience life in a new way for me.

It is a logical and a desireable outcome. And nope they don't come back around except for many years. Even if the world lands her smack on her rear, she will keep running away from you.

Being with her is not desireable for you. I wouldn't worry about any future either, because it keeps you from being focused on what you need to be doing.

All of that leads me to tomorrow. I am going out in the evening with my new friend. I guess just the two of us for a meal and cinema means it's a date right? I will play it by ear and casually drop in 'separated/kids' where appropriate if it has the air of a date.

It's a date. But it is meeting with a friend. Never the less a date. Go by the single mans rules...

[Ontheup]

Hey alpha

Moving forward is the best thing you can do. Sitting in limbo hoping things will change never works. It just destroys your self esteem

As far as your "date" just be honest about your sitch, take it for what it is, a nice evening out with a woman.

If you read Onguards sitch you will see that WAW sometimes do a complete u-turn when all looks to be done and dusted. He is in control now as he had moved on believing his marriage was over. His wife has now turned around and basically said she wants to work it out. You see it so often. Grass is rarely greener but try telling WAW that when they're deep in the affair with schmoopie.

[zew]

schmoopie.

That made me laugh, Ontheup.

[alpha99]

In my time on this board I have searched high and low for a sitch just like mine - and I haven't found one. Sure, other people have had sithces that have seemed far worse than mine, but in every case I come across where things have worked out there always seems to be, for whatever reason, some indecision on the part of the WAS, either they won't move out, they're confused over their feelings, they're financially dependent, they leave with OP but miss their children and come back eventually.

In my case W earns enough to get by herself, has the kids probably 60/40 with me, has already moved out of course, and has shown zero signs of indecision/regret etc as far as trying to work things out goes. I guess sometimes when someone says it's over they really do mean it. Her calls now focus either on child arrangements or thinly veiled excuses to complain about money and how I should be giving her some/more. She seems happy in her life. Maybe it's all a big front, who knows? Anyway, I have reached a point where I have reflected on what went on between us, not her A per se, but our time together in recent years. Yes, I loved her but we were in a rut. With no help from relatives to mind our kids, we were stuck in all the time with very few social outlets, with contrasting upbringings that lead to constant bickering.

Now, since we'd spent so long together I firmly believe that all our differences could have been sorted out if we had both agreed to work on things. I could forgive her A and slowly move on if she had wanted to. I think the A is definitely over with OM now but I think the disconnect it caused between us is something she struggles to get a grip on how it might ever be resolved. In other words, I think she feels our R was broke, the A sealed its fate, and now there's no way back. After all my ups and downs over the last few months, finally I can live with that. I feel so sorry for my children that they may not grow up with lovely family memories like I did, but I can't live my life banging my head against a wall or hanging around waiting for a miracle to happen. W has made it clear time after time it is over. Sure, there has been a softening in her attitude but that has purely coincided with what would seem to be her realisation that she really wouldn't be able to handle the children 24/7 on her own and they do actually need their father, and not in any way a softening because of a change in feelings.

Ontheup, that's great advice regarding my 'date' this evening. Maybe it's because I've been 'out of the game' for so long but I am unsure of her intentions. I will just take it as a night out with an attractive women and see what happens, but it does read like a date with it being just the two of us, doesn't it? She seems to have pursued me (meetup's version of a 'poke', then private message with gig invite, then texting, chatting at gig, texting 'would be nice to get to know you', then her asking if I wanted to go for a meal and to the cinema). Since this all came about through a site where people randomly meet up for social events I'm wary of reading too much into it. I'll just enjoy the evening and see what happens, and like I said, should it clearly be taking the form of a date I of course would feel obliged to very briefly (taking complex's advice into account) mention my sitch. Let's see what happens.

[Onguard]

Alpha, I have not kept up with your entire sitch but I have read the recent developments. I will just humbly offer some suggestions based on my own experience. First, allow your feelings to be just as they are. As much as I wish I could have turned off my feelings and detached from my ww emotionally I simply had to let it run its natural course. And it DID finally run its course. (My w and I had been together since we were 13, so it took a bit longer than I would have preferred). Don't fight them or beat yourself up for feeling a certain way. Allow the feeling to be there but trust that the feeling will change eventually.

Second, focus on you. Become the best man you can become. Challenge yourself in every way, in your career, physically, spiritually, intellectually, as a father. GAL! I see you are going on a date and I think that is awesome! Just being with a woman and proving to yourself that you can have a good time with someone else will be uplifting.

Third and lastly for now, BELIEVE that you will be ok no matter what, because you will. There were many, many days where I was convinced that the opposite was true. I felt like I would always be hurting without her. I was wrong. The hurt eventually stopped. Women are attracted to confidence. All women, they can't help it. Women are attracted to men who are successful, who are leaders. Men who can be strong but loving at the same time. Become that man! You have it in you. We all do. A man like that is going to be better than OK, he is going to be great!

I will keep following your situation and I will be pulling for you.

[alpha99]

In recent weeks I have been slowly seeing W in a different way. The icing on the cake has been female attention. Even if nothing comes from this it has shown that in no time at all I can make friends and female 'acquaintances' if I just get out there. A lifetime issue of confidence is fading and as a result I am realising what a good person I am, how I could be better, how much I have to offer, and how I deserve better than maybe what I've settled for previously.

As I walked away from W yesterday to my relatives, I did look across the street back at her. I felt nothing. I feel a general disappointment that my M is over, and as I've said I feel sorry for my children, but due to her change in attitude and behaviour I no longer feel much at all, if anything, for W.

[Sotto]

Hi Alpha, I'm pleased you're feeling better than previously. But I would urge some caution with some of your post above - and also your post on Onguard's thread. You are still pretty early on in your sitch - not yet three months - have two kids together - and are still (presumably?) hoping to move forward with your family all together if possible.

I think there are a couple of important differences between sitches like Onguard's and your own. One significant difference is time scale. And I truly do think it takes a fair amount of time to work through the utter devastation and find happiness again within yourself. The second difference is dating.

I'm not a fan of dating early on in sitches - but we all make different choices and that's fair enough. I think the important thing is not to feel you've truly detached, are ready to walk away and have 'come through it' - when what may have happened is some female interest has given you a boost. I always worry that early dating is a way of trying to circumvent the journey - take that little door from kitchens to kids rooms in Ikea - and miss out important stuff on the way - introspection and growth.

I don't want to be a party pooper - but that is what came to mind when I read your posts today. Hope the feedback is useful...

T :-)

[alpha99]

Hi toots,

Thank you for your comments, I really do appreciate your opinion and feedback.

Oh how I've wished I wasn't here, and I've cried, plead, had sleepness nights, said and done stupid things. You're right, three months isn't so long considering the rest of your life. I think I'm at the stage though where I like the idea of family as a means of stability for myself and the children. If none of this had happened We'd still be plodding on in our everyday lives. But it has happened, and I've been a mess, and I've missed her so much, spent the days wondering how to be when we next meet etc. Recently though my feelings have been changing, and no doubt this last week with the girl I'm seeing tonight has moved that on quicker, but I have seen a growth in myself that would never have otherwise happened. I'm doing things Ive never done before, my confidence is growing, and I feel like life is good. I spend time with my kids, I've bonded more closely with certain family members, I've become independent, and less and less I've missed my wife, thought about her etc.

I was going to say if she knocked on my door right now I wouldn't take her back so quickly, maybe not all. In fact though, she called as I started writing this post asking for a selfish favour. We are being cordial but she has hurt me so incredibly much. OK, I'm not saying the last few weeks has wiped away 10 years together but a lot if reflection is leading me in the direction of thinking I am outgrowing that old relationship. My W doesnt get jokes, isn't into discussing politics, doesn't share many interests.

Yes, I loved her despite all those things...but we did bicker and argue daily. My shock ably sudden life changes meant I did all the typical things, and W has even said she half thinks my reaction was partly just a fear of being alone. Maybe she was right, maybe she was talking cr@p, but I can truly say today I'm not scared of being alone. I know in time I could meet someone else. Maybe tonight is the start of that, maybe it will just be a one off. Either way I just don't think I can hang on any longer waiting for something I sense will never come. If it is going to come then it will have to come to me as my days of pursuing are over. Yeah, I've read miracle turnarounds from unlikely places but like I said, in each of those sitches from the start I've seen flickers of life, ve it a confused text, refusing to move out, being uncertain over feelings. Like I wrote before, W has shown zero of that.

I don't want to take any shortcuts in going through this process but I also don't want it to define my life. I have nothing but respect for you toots that you are ploughing on in your life whilst still standing for your marriage.

If in 6 months time or whenever things had somehow magically turned around I'd gladly quote these posts and eat my words. I am (A knowledge aside) usually a good judge of situations and of reading people. Of course I know my W intimately, and whilst she may not be the same person she was, I see a zeal in her to move forward in her life and no detection at all of wanting to work on marriage. Should I wait longer in case she does change? I guess I could. It's a personal choice though isn't it.

By going on a 'date' tonight, if that's what it is (still unsure) I am not saying never ever to R with W somewhere down the line. W has plastered pictures of herself on a dating site. She is being egged on to meet people. I am not doing this as a contest. I didn't plan on it. Amazingly it seems this girl has pursued me to some degree. I suppose I'm saying I am trying to move on, live my life, and not live it in a way where I'm worried what W might say it do.

The flip side of above is that I feel if things did go well tonight I am ready to see where they might lead...albeit slowly, but I'm ready. I'm not testing the waters, I'm ready. I would never hurt anyone intentionally, and so wouldnt progress with a new R unless I felt ready. I plan to only mention my sitch very briefly (gonna focus on having fun) but I will be honest in what I say

Sorry for the meandering post. Written from mobile. It's difficult, even with my long posts, to accurately convey all my thoughts and feelings here. I try my best. I feel in my heart that I am doing something positive for me now. I don't know where it will go, if anywhere, but I'm curious to live it and find out.

[Complex]

No judgement whatsoever Alpha, but I don't think you are ready. And you shouldn't be. Which doesn't necessarily mean you should go out on this date.
But don't go for the wrong reasons!

In general I'd also say that you are still thinking too much. Try to relax some more, enjoy your life and don't forget to keep working on yourself.

[twinmom]

I have kept up on reading but not much time lately to respond to you....

How is your attitude regarding your wife's parenting skills? Have you made progress with this? One thing I notice is that you post a lot about taking the kids for ice cream, McDonald's and the arcade..... (almost every time you post about having the kids you mention a treat) so please honestly evaluate how often YOU are giving treats.
When you interacted with your MIL about wife it wasn't positive and (to me) it seemed like your view of her hadn't changed.

As for dating, my opinion (if you want it, lol) is probably not a good idea. Has NOTHING to do with saving or not saving your marriage but with you having grown add a person and able to be alone and HAPPY to allow a partner to be the icing not the cake.
Don't use female attention as a crutch to get over your wife.

[alpha99]

Hi all,

I had a great time this evening. It was a date, it went really well (at least I thought so), and I'd like to do it again. I did briefly explain sitch. I could see a reaction on her face of course but she said anyone our age is going to have some sort of baggage. I don't know if it will go anywhere but I'd at least like to see her again.

Complex, maybe you're right. I think though sometimes a long post on here only comprises passing thoughts in my head. My M as it stands is over. Whilst it's not what I ever intended that's where I am. I feel ready to move on.

Twinmom, I understand what you're saying completely. I respect W for the job she is doing with the kids but I don't agree with elements of how she is doing it. I don't see it as being better so much, more simply as basic right and wrong. MIL in the case you mentioned was more dismissive in tone than I was. At this point my children's welfare is my main concern, just them being happy. I don't think I spoil the kids at all. Theyve been on a ton of holidays in recent years. The most recent one didn't happen because of sitch, and so an ice cream in the park isn't overdoing it in my eyes as a replacement. Now they're back at school again my time with them is again more functional than too much fun.

Logically dating is surely not conducive to sorting out M. If I thought there was a chance to sort things out then maybe I'd have stayed clear of dating. I don't think there is any chance anymore though. I hope I'm wise enough to see that my own growth shouldn't stop because of some attention. I will continue to be independent. I think of the WAW video that says your husband has being going to school on your marriage and will make someone else a great husband. I would never make the same R mistakes as I have previously. I wouldn't use somebody as a crutch. If anything happens with my date tonight, it will happen SLOWLY. There will be no headlong rush into replacing what I had previously.

I do have a good clear mind now on how I want to proceed.

[Luis P]

Hi Alpha,

It's good that you seem to feel you know where you stand and what you want.

It is good that you feel your in the process to detach, 3 months is very short time, however, try to sort by making sure you have more parenting with your children, work on yourself, take Onguard's advise and everyone's opinion and just as you said move slowly and there is no right or wrong, is about you building your low self esteem and being a parent for your children.

I think the overall experience is you are strong, experienced, and above all, you are wiser as you can now pay attention to women (your wife) how and when she communicates you listen and respect and reflect accordingly just as mentioned going to school to get educated in relationship.

Hope all gets better for you.

[Complex]

I agree it's a pretty short your sitch still. Especially considering we are talking about a life long commitment here. But if you decided for yourself that this is not going to work anymore I guess you have the right too. It wasn't your fault.
But keep in mind we are still young. Too young to believe we are making very wise decisions imI'd believe. So we gotta be careful with what we are wishing for.
Plus we truly have to learn our lessons and not make the same mistakes all over again, most likely your W will....

[alpha99]

Hi all,

I've not fallen off the face of the Earth, I've just been living life more than ever recently.

So here's an update:

Since my last post I have been on 2 more dates with the girl I met at the quiz. We get on like a house on fire and I like her a lot. I will be seeing her tomorrow and the last time we met she was trying to get me to help her out with some second job sideline she has going this Sunday. We haven't been intimate at all, just a peck on the cheek at the end of each date, but I would be willing to explore that further should the opportunity present itself.

From that you can probably gather that there's been no development with my W, and I don't see or even want any development to come along, regardless of what happens with the other women I've met. My W only calls to make arrangements for the kids or to make thinly veiled threats on how she might choose to extort money from me or this, that, and the other along those lines. She can be nice when she wants a favour, but I stick to my guns and don't help her out unless an emergency. The kids appear fine, although W is starting to use them as a weapon by stating they want to be see me on certain days that suit her so that she can go out etc. The kids are very happy and it's really sad to see her use them to try and manipulate me. We are moving along with the house sale. Well, in that it will be getting valued in the next few days and then going on the market soon after.

Since I'm not looking for reconciliation, and neither is W, then clearly it isn't on the cards. After my world falling apart when all of this started, if I was to receive D papers now I wouldn't mind one bit. Sure, there's a nostalgic side that would be sad to finalise things and that this M has ultimately been a failure, but I've learnt so much about myself recently, how I'm worth more than I give myself credit for, how I need to advance my career, how despite my previous or apparent lack of confidence I can have an very attractive lady ask me out, and be comfortable in that kind of situation. Life does not end when your M ends. I feel for my children but ultimately living a sham life for their happiness would not be the thing to do, even if it was an option. I can see a happy future for myself, one where I'm successful, one where I meet someone who I can engage with on the same level. Not to criticise my W overly, because we spent 10+ years together, but she left school with no qualifications and has little interest in most non shallow reality TV kind of things. I am university educated, and whilst my confidence has held me back in the past, I am now emerging more confidently and hopefully able to rectify my past reticence to get on with life to be able to move forward career wise and attract someone of a more similar ilk to myself. I'm not being nasty to my W at all, she is who she is, and yes people of all backgrounds and abilities can be together and be happy, but one thing that has nagged me throughout our M is the lack of stimulating conversation I could have with her.

I'm working regularly again now and earning some decent money. My main area of growth has been getting out more with friends and socialising. Along with three dates in just over a week I have also been out with an old friend and told him everything about my sitch, and also been out to more quizzes and will be out again tonight for another social meetup thing. My confidence is growing in that for the first time in my life I am getting up off my bum and going out and living, experiencing life in a new way. A lifetime of being reluctant to approach people and make friends is falling by the wayside as I get out more. Tonight there is a meetup thing nearby with 25 people going. I have seen maybe 5 of these people once or twice before, and my 'date' will be there too, but other than that I don't know anyone. Not so long ago I would never have dreamt of going, or if somehow forced to for some reason I would have spent the day dreading how to turn up, say hello, fit in etc, but now I look forward to these things.

When I told my old friend about my lack of confidence he was in disbelief. He always thought I was so confident. It seems I had managed to fool everyone in that regard, even my W over the years.

So as far as the future goes I can see our house being sold within a few months, somehow or other W and I working out how to divorce in the cheapest, easiest, and quickest way, maintaining the same sort of rota with the childminding, moving forward with my career (I've been looking into a few new avenues to explore), and hopefully either continuing on with this lady I've met (I would like this) and seeing what happens or somewhere down the line finding someone else to be happy with.

[Sotto]

Hi Alpha, good to hear from you. I'm pleased to hear about your growing confidence and that you seem more detached from what your W is doing. JMHO, but I think you should remain very aware that dating isn't the answer right now.

If you've read my sitch, you'll see that one of the big things that has caught up with my H is that he never got to be a full time Dad. That was a product of the breakdown of his first M, and he just got to parent at weekends because of that. Only you can decide what you want to do, but be aware that these are big decisions and that things may well change yet with your W.

If you get straight involved with someone else, you're just avoiding work that you need to do. Best to focus on a more healthy route of making new friends, doing new activities, being a good Dad, working on yourself and so on. You don't need affirmation from a new woman for any of that. JMHO, and I wish you the best, whatever you decide.

Have a good weekend :-)

[alpha99]

Hi Toots,

As ever thanks for your words of wisdom. I have caught up on your sitch and read about your H missing out on being a FT dad. For me that is the one lingering bone of contention in my own sitch. I have the kids for 3 days each week but with them sleeping over etc I see them in some form for 5 days a week. Of course I miss the day to day life with them but frankly there's nothing I can personally do about that now. Again, W is perfectly clear in wanting to divorce, no ifs, no buts, just needing the money to go through with it.

I'm actually getting on better with the in laws at the moment on those rare occasions I see them. I've only seen W once or twice in over a week. We have limited texts and calls and it's purely to make arrangements. I think I've made giant strides in detachment. I rarely think about W and I don't miss her.

I understand the caution over dating. I am getting out and doing new activities, meeting new people, working out hard at the gym, having fun, and experiencing life in a new way. I do believe that I am making positive changes both in myself and my life, and I see dating as a part of that. This girl somewhat pursued me initially, and it has to be said she is a stunner, a good match for me, and so I'm just rolling with it. I don't know what will happen with her but I'd like to find out. The point being I didn't seek this out but I think I'd be a fool not to explore it.

[twinmom]

Toots you said what I had typed and deleted about 5 times...... Except you said it in a tactful way and unfortunately I kept deleting because I know I was coming across too harsh.

Alpha, your "I'm better than you" attitude hasn't changed. And if I were a betting person (I'm not, gambling makes me sick to my stomach nervous) I would say any new relationship is doomed to the same problems when the "new relationship high" wears off.

If you reread your posts YOU sound like a WAW in the middle of an affair, justifying your actions by turning everything your wife does/is into a negative.

[alpha99]

Hi twinmom,

I have just reread my recent posts and I can see how it does come across like you're suggesting. On the face of it it would seem I'm comparing and contrasting my W to suit my own ends. I'd like to think I'm just being honest here though, thinking out loud. We all judge people. I accept a lack of respect from me contributed to things turning out how they have with my W. I don't see that as a reoccurring trait of mine, more unique to that circumstance with that person.

I totally get your comments that a future relationship with someone else wouldn't work if I don't learn from my M and what went wrong there. Although I am maybe not fully expressing things in these posts as well as I could, I do feel I have done a lot of soul searching in recent times and I am aware of my flaws and what to do about them. This girl I've dated recently is far cleverer than me and so it's a complete turnaround from what I've been used to. I know there would be no chance of not respecting her.

Just to reiterate, I didn't seek out these dates to begin with, quite the opposite, and if it doesn't work out I don't think I would actively search for anyone else right now. If I was in any doubt over whether my M had a future or not I wouldn't proceed, but sitting here it is incredibly clear that it is dead in the water. I agree it's been a short amount of time to move on but it feels the healthiest option for me now.

In lots of ways I feel I'm becoming a better person, and that needs to continue. My W has become manipulative, greedy, selfish, and shows zero feeling for me. She can be cordial when she wants something but that's about it. I know I'm not perfect. I know that sounds like justifying dating or whatever, but since she really has become that kind of person I don't see how I could put up with her anyway, or even hang around hoping somehow she will change back again to who she was before.

[twinmom]

I'm glad you are not sliding backwards into sadness anymore.

[Starsky309]

Just to reiterate, I didn't seek out these dates to begin with, quite the opposite, and if it doesn't work out I don't think I would actively search for anyone else right now. If I was in any doubt over whether my M had a future or not I wouldn't proceed, but sitting here it is incredibly clear that it is dead in the water. I agree it's been a short amount of time to move on but it feels the healthiest option for me now.

Leading with your feelings is what waywards do.

Just saying; I am NOT necessarily in the "no dating" camp unequivocally (I think it's okay if both spouses agree the marriage is over, and they notify the other and the two agree on it). But it DOES clearly retard your own efforts to work on yourself, make no mistake.

I hear you saying "It feels good, therefore I'm going to do it," Alpha.


Starsky

[alpha99]

I can't argue with your analysis Starksy.

In ten plus years I never went near another woman. Now my W has had an A and our marriage is all but over - only the official process of ending it seems to remain, of course a new world has opened up. Again, I'm at pains to point out I didn't seek out these dates. I could have said no for sure. I haven't discussed this with my W because she very clearly wants little to do with me besides childcare arrangements.

I do believe I am working hard on myself. I'd say my major flaw has been an unending reservoir of sarcasm aimed at everyone I know. That has been toned right, right down. I've made new friends through being more confident and socialising, I've taken part in different activities I would never have been to only a short while ago, I am working on improving my career, and I've changed my dress sense and attitude. I make sure to put my children first (taking them on a great day out next weekend) and I feel quite content with myself. I'm not perfect, I never will be, and maybe technically I should wait before M is officially over before I attempt to move on with someone else - this is something only a short while ago I'd have never even contemplated whilst still in a M. I hope my principles are still in tact, and it's definitely not the case of W did this or that so it's fine for me, more that W ended our M and so life goes on regardless.

[alpha99]

I am sure given my recent messages that I may be called a hypocrite here, but it has come to my attention that W has been sending naked pictures of herself to both men and women and at the same time been receiving them in the last few days.

I am not pointing this out to criticse her - she can do what she wants as far as I'm concerned - and yes, I have been on a few dates, but it goes to show where her head is at. I have been putting zero effort in for a little while now in trying to save my M as I thought there was zero chance of doing so and my feelings have changed anyway, this would just seem to confirm that I had made the right choice. W seems to be slowly going around the twist (sending/receiving naked messages to women presumably she has met online???).

Funnily enough six months ago say this would have been devastating. These days it really hardly bothers me at all - there is such little feeling. It just bring into focus what needs to be done next; sell house, push on with D process, be a good dad, improve my career and finances, and move on and live my life.

[alpha99]

I dropped the kids back this morning with their mum and we had the first proper conversation we've had in quite a while now. I had taken the kids out on a nice day out yesterday, something a little more than usual, and W ended up trying to get some information out of me about the day out. This lead to a ten minute conversation on the door step. One thing I noticed is that she is very concerned with me not seeing what is going on in her house. She has a three foot square hall by her front door and another door leading to the living room. She made sure to shut this over tight so I couldn't see into the living room (why would I be bothered anyway?).

We talked about the kids, her work, my work, potential annual holidays for this year (separately, of course). On the one had it was nice to have a normal conversation with her that seemingly did not have some hidden agenda or ended up with her threats of wanting money etc. On the other hand I felt different to how I have done previously. There was no 'game plan' from myself in how to handle the conversation, no looking for signs of improvement etc, I was just myself, take it or leave it.

Although I've expressed here how my feelings have changed over the recent weeks, I think my W has been in the mindset still that I am moping over her day and night etc. Well, I cleared that up a week or so ago in a telephone call when she was being nasty to me, saying how I was trying to control her. I replied 'I'm not trying to control you. I'm quite happy at the moment and that's because I don't really want anything to do with you other than the kids'. At the time she said 'that's fine' but I think it may have slightly shocked her to really see the change in attitude.

Edit: Just thinking and rereading this back, another thing I've noticed since I made it clear I'm no longer interested in her is that her last few text messages have been a lot more cordial. For a while now she wouldn't use my name in a message, but in the last few she has started to say, yes, that's fine alpha, no alpha, at 3pm alpha. I may be reading more into that than there is but it is a recent trend I noticed.

Anyway, our conversation today stemmed from the fact that I just dropped the kids off, mentioned a few practical things about them, and was walking down the garden path to leave. She called me back to ask about the day out and the conversation went from there. I was weighing her up as we spoke and one thing I've noticed is that she's putting quite a bit of weight on. Her face is swelling. At home previously, although I had put weight on in recent years, this last year or more I've lost a lot and would try and instigate a lot of activities. I think on her own with the freedom to do/eat whatever she likes is definitely taking its toll on her.

So, I wonder whether this is a one off thing on her part in being nice or whether it is coinciding with her being alone, maybe reality setting in that it won't be so easy for her to find a long term partner when she has a limited income and two children hanging around, and the fact that she now clearly sees I'm not pursuing her in the slightest.

I don't see any dramatic turn around on the cards of her starting to pursue me or anything, but she did mention one or two small things from our past when talking about the future today, so again, as the dust settles for her it will be interesting to see if she changes her attitude once more.

For myself, I think my head has cleared from the initial shock of everything and I'm quite happy with my life right now. I am working full time, earning enough money to restore my depleted funds, making new friends, and enjoying a variety of different activities. Thinking long and hard to myself about the hypothetical situation where my W would potentially want to rekindle things (don't see it happening myself), I have wondered whether I'd want her back at all. The only reason I can come up with for a yes is to have a united family for our children. Whilst that would mean the world to me, to ensure my children grow up in a traditional family unit, I can't see myself being happy with her again. Maybe her A was a blessing. Yes, we'd spent a long time together, and yes people get bogged down by life, children, work etc, but I feel far happier now than I have done in a long time, despite the family holidays of yesteryear etc. Again, my only nagging thought is about my children. I love them with all the world. I just don't think that should the situation arise I could take my W back unless she somehow had a personality transplant and became a much more interesting person concerned with more things than just watching TV or playing on her phone.

That's not to be critical of her (I know it appears to be), it's just our separation and time to think has really highlighted the mismatch in our personalities, influences, opinions, mentalities. I feel like I dragged her along through our R, and now I'm not doing that, she appears to have settled back into the 'teenager hanging around on a street corner' mentality she pretty much had when I first met her. I thought she'd outgrown that over time through being with me and life's developments (children, marriage, house etc) but she seems to have fell straight back into old habits.

On reflection I think I'd struggle to ever forgive her for having an A. Yes, maybe it could be done over time. I do have 'images' in my head about what they might have done together and it turns my stomach - so I try not to think of that anymore.

Of course all of this forgets the fact that in the last week she has been sending and receiving naked pictures of herself to people I guess she's met on the internet. It's sad, really sad to see someone you used to love appear to be going off the rails in such a way.

As for myself, the dating with the girl I met recently seems to have come to an end. I will see her later this week through the quiz we both go to, but for whatever reason (I don't quite understand why after a few dates she has just gone cold) it appears to have fizzled out. I'd like to be proved wrong there as I thought we seemed suited to each other, we have gotten along great, similar interests and all that as I've written previously, much more suited to me than my W it would appear, but there you go. Oh well...

[Sotto]

Hi Alpha, I'm glad you're doing okay, and pleased to hear that you feel more detached from your W. That does make things easier I think. From what you say about the naked pics, sounds like she is still pretty wayward. But who knows it may help wake her up if she sees you positively moving forward without her.

I'm sorry things didn't work out with the dating. Well, I'm kinda sorry and kinda not - and I don't say that to be mean. But, I think most healthy young women wouldn't get involved with a guy at your stage in your sitch. And you certainly don't want to become involved with an unhealthy young woman and go round a wash, rinse, repeat cycle.

Best to put that one behind you. You don't need a woman to tell you how great you are. You can do this alone and do that for yourself.

Keep posting and moving forward!! ((Alpha))

[alpha99]

Hi Toots,

As ever thanks for your comments. Yeah, W does seem to be really wayward now. I am wary of twinmom's comments that I am just saying I'm better than my W all the time, but I have to say it does seem like she has regressed to a kind of moral free rebellious teenager in some ways. Unfortunately when I was a bit of a mess immediately post break up she took advantage to make sure things are in her favour finance wise. I am recovering from that now but she isn't contributing at all to our household bills which makes things more difficult for me.

Dating wise, I understand where you're coming from. Of course I would like things to work out with this girl otherwise I wouldn't have dated her. I have made one or two new friends recently and they have commented how just a few months separated is no time at all - one of these people has been S for around two years and still doesn't feel ready to move on! It's funny, I don't feel I'm fooling myself or looking to replace something, but of course everyone would like to share their life with someone, and I feel that since saving M seems incredibly unlikely to happen (neither of us want it really) then I don't see the need to hang around and wait a set time. I am very much a person who can 'switch off' bad things pretty quickly (nothing like a M of course) and move on without much thought about the past. I feel I am doing that now with my M. Circumstances mean that I am only seeing W maybe once a week - if that. I don't miss her. When I see her I feel some pity for her actually, pity that she feels she has made the right choice and is moving on with her life, but she hasn't realised that she had it pretty damn good beforehand and the likelihood of that happening again for her (not just statistically, but knowing her intimately, personally as well) is quite low. I'm sure she could find a new boyfriend etc today if she wanted to, but finding a long term partner is going to be hard for her.

Of course I find myself in that boat too, but I don't have the kids living with me to contend with and I don't think (maybe wrongly) that there's the same kind of stigma around that when it comes to men.

Regarding your comments toots about a healthy young woman not getting involved with me at this stage, I guess you're right. This girl mentioned her own emotional baggage (long term R ended months ago) so maybe that is coming into it too. Maybe it is simply an attraction thing. I don't know. I do know that I'm going to carry on the path I've started down of changing my life for the better, being a great dad, living life to the full, and if something or someone comes along as part of that I'll have to assess at the time what the best thing to do is then.

[alpha99]

In the continuing saga that is my W messing me about, she has texted today to ask if I wanted the kids overnight later in the week on a day when I normally wouldn't. I've already made plans and said I couldn't. What followed was a narky text full of criticism, essentially bemoaning the fact that I don't jump when W clicks her fingers. What she fails to realise is that I know her parents are away this week and so she is feeling the full force of having the children more than normal. Well, these are the arrangements that she wanted so she'll have to deal with it. I still see them in one way or another on five days of the week, so I'm doing my share of parenting.

At times like this it is so frustrating. However people feel about me saying it, everyone with half a brain that we know would agree that I am by far the better parent. As W attempts to dictate terms and conditions on where, when, how I see my children, I am gradually reaching the point, now that my initial shock and sadness at things is long over, of considering legal action to shut her up and have my children with me. She is funding her life based on the benefits that she receives for the children, and from what I see not really using said benefit money for the purposes of the children.


It's not the case that she is working hard and doesn't have time for them. She's reduced her work under the guise of spending more time with them, but the children say they just play on computer games and are left in their room to play alone, haven't been the park etc, and spend a lot of time at their grandparents. When I returned them to her at the weekend I had to bang hard on the door as she was still in bed even though she knew the children were due back at that time.

All in all her freedom appears to have allowed her to be as stupid as she likes. I did keep that kind of stuff in check when we were together. I'm not absolving myself of past responsibility for things but at the same time when I clearly the more educated/interested in organising things then of course it fell on me to manage things. It's becoming increasingly clear she is struggling to manage anything at all (disciplinary trouble at work, not completing on going work training, poor financial management, not managing house sale/divorce at all, so on and etc).

I've taken a back seat to this point over joint decisions about the house etc as up until recently I was hoping that we wouldn't go through with a sale and that things would work out. That isn't going to happen and so I think I'm going to have to drive this process along now.

I do feel lonely at times, particularly in the evenings when there is nothing to do, but I'd much rather be alone than back with someone who acts/thinks like a child. Once again, the children are a big consideration of mine, but should someone else come along, and I'm not actively seeking that but it's happened once recently with my few dates so I guess it's a possibility, then I would be open to seeing what happens.

[twinmom]

Based solely on what you have written if I were to meet you I would run the other way.
I think I have said this before, it's not about what you exactly say or do but your way of looking at the world. It comes across without even saying the words.
If you have a mind set that you are better than others it shows to EVERYONE not just the person/people you think you are smarter/better looking/more mature than.
Anyone that sees this will most likely be very turned off by it and not want to **possibly** be on the receiving end of this attitude.

I guess this is VERY personal for me as I have been on the receiving end of someone I love and value thinking they were a better parent and I was "not always a good mom". I know the damage it can do to a relationship. Not ONE single day goes by that I don't think about my husband thinking I wasn't a good mom (I was too strict in his opinion) this was NEVER said directly to me. It has caused WAY more damage than his affair.

Please try and see things from someone else's perspective.

[alpha99]

I totally understand your reaction twinmom, particuarly if you have experienced something similar yourself. I've said before though, my attitude is specific to my W and not a general trend of mine to think I'm better than everyone else.

Some people (my W) are simply just not good parents.

If that comes across as being judgmental on my part, then I will just have to live with it looking that way. In the past my W has left the gas jet on after cooking, then put a cardboard box on top of the still on gas ring, and then went to bed, she's left the fridge open so our food went off, placed a fan with no cover over it next to the kid's cot when the kids were reaching out to it, walked out in front of cars when pushing a pram, left dishes to rot until food turned green in the microwave...I could go on and on and on. Sure, I'm not perfect, far from it, but I did put up with an awful lot from her over the years. I did that because I loved her. I don't love her anymore. She just simply didn't take her medication that would have resolved a lot of those issues. I think it just grates an awful lot that someone who is not very organised, is increasingly self centred, self, greedy etc etc is dictating things to me, when she can't think straight herself.

I don't think there's much of a point in my last few posts other than to vent a bit...so hopefully that's it for now. All of this is just strengthening my resolve to move forward in my life.

In a parallel world maybe all our problems could have been a catalyst for change for the better for her. I think it has been for me, as I've written about previously. Maybe she could have looked at herself, shown remorse for breaking up our family, for her actions, and set out on a path to become a better person. If anything it just feels like she's pulled the plug completely on the life we had and anything good about her is disappearing down the drain.

[twinmom]

Then honestly if she is that neglectful why have you EVER left her alone with your children. From what you have written they are in danger (and what you describe above is dangerous) and you need to have full custody of the kids.

[alpha99]

Well, that's the point I'm reaching. She is their mum and they love her, and I would never want to deprive her from seeing them or even having them.

However, in recent weeks I've picked my daughter up and she has had sleep in her eyes, snot falling out of her nose. W informed me yesterday she is behind on some bills, has lost some of the kids' school uniforms. My S informed me he spends most of his time in his room.

In other words she is very unorganised, not very 'motherly' in the normal sense, and is using her apparent desire to be a better mum to fund her socialising lifestyle from the child benefits she receives.

I don't think the kids are in immediate danger in the sense that she would ever deliberately harm them, just that they don't get the attention they deserve, and the attention they would get from me. Again, W is using the kids as a reason to cut work hours, use their benefit money to go on nights out, and then complain to me how hard life is.

I can't afford a solicitor right now to fight this. Due to UK cuts in legal aid I don't see the possibility of getting any help there, but I have started to build up a file of evidence on W that I may use at some point not too far off in the future as part of a child custody claim.

[twinmom]

"Sleep in their eyes" and "snot in their nose" is a big difference than almost burning down the house, having moldy food in the kitchen where the kids could eat it and pushing them in front of cars.......

Read what you wrote again.

[alpha99]

Well, things took a turn for the worse today.

My W came to our house to tidy it up a little before it goes on the market to be sold...hopefully soon.

She left a load of stuff in the front garden to be thrown out. All good stuff though that should be saved. She came to tell me she had done this. I went to the house and moved some of the stuff back into the house because I wasn't going to throw it away. She made demands over it being out of the house by a certain time. That's where the problem began.

Having had enough of her attempting to dictate terms to me, I told her exactly what I thought of her demands to have things moved according to her schedule. This resulted in quite an argument in the street. We were both relatively quiet, we weren't screaming and shouting, but I did call her a cheap tart and said I wanted nothing to do with her other than to exchange the kids. That was the end result of her smugly smiling, making her usual threats, saying she could be nasty and that she could take the children away and go through the courts and only have them see me once every two weeks. All unfounded nonsense of course but it did rile me a little.

I said I want the house sold asap and the divorce just the same. Her total change in personality means she is no longer appealing in anyway. It's like letting the patient take over the mad house. I really dislike her these days and I don't see that changing any time soon. Her frequent response to things was 'you can't control me and tell me what to do anymore'. She doesn't seem to realise that I have no interest in controlling her or telling her what to do, but when she does stupid things with our children or our possessions then I of course will have an opinion.

For anyone reading this thinking maybe she had a point and things do need to be moved out, yeah I understand, but as an example she left a bin bag with an E-reader sat on top of it in full view on the front step in the front garden. This wasn't done out of spite, jealousy, anger etc, it was done out of the complete lack of thought that seems to have enveloped her in recent times.

I know this post is little more than a rant but I do find it useful to put my thoughts down somewhere.

[Sotto]

Hi Alpha, I'm sorry things took a turn for the worse for you guys. I think the process of actually splitting things and selling the marital home is stressful and emotions can run high.

How are you feeling about things now? Have you and your W had any contact since the argument? I guess from a DB perspective, we're aiming for a balance between boundary setting and keeping in mind our end goal. It sounds as though your W crossed a boundary for you when she put stuff out on the lawn without consulting you. And I think it's fair enough to call her on that.

It's a shame that things deteriorated though, and I'm sure you already know that calling your W a cheap tart isn't going to get you closer to reconciliation if that is what you still want. But maybe from what you write it isn't?

Maybe for now it's best to focus on coparenting and maintain as good a R with your W as possible even though circumstances are difficult. Getting drawn in to an argument like you describe is 'attachment' and if you are able to be more detached, things are far less likely to escalate because your W can't argue with herself, can she?

Keep posting Alpha. There's still much journeying ahead for most of us here, and we all benefit from some help and support along the way - take care.... (((Alpha)))

[alpha99]

Hi toots,

I don't want reconciliation now to be honest. I was willing to forgive an affair, I believe I had pretty quickly actually, but I cannot forgive the ongoing behaviour out of my W.

I did call her back the other day just to say sorry for the name calling. I said I just want to get on for the kids, go through this whole process as amicably as we can, and move on with life. Her words agree but her attitude stinks!

You see, I've read in lots of threads about a WW's behaviour and how irrational it can seem. The difference with my W is that left to herself she is irrational anyway, regardless of affairs and everything else. I worked this out pretty quickly after meeting her all those years ago but being a little older, earning more money at the time, and yes, being the man, I assumed (wrongly) that over time she would mature and see sense once I'd shown her how to run things properly. The reasons I had financial control on our R was because she was absolutely useless with money. Her medical condition and being spoilt rotten as a child contribute to this. Sure, I kept things on too tight of a rein in the last few years no doubt but now she is independent her irrationality has exposed itself 10x over.

So the next thing is this: W did an extra shift at work apparently that is paid differently to her normal wages, and this additional money was paid into my account by mistake. I have only seen her once since and just forgot to give her the money. No big deal in my eyes, I'll just give it to her when I see her next. Apparently she has been on the phone to her mum complaining that I'm withholding the money etc, that's she's asked several times, that she's desperate for it etc. This is not true, and also ignores the fact she owes me £100s for her share of the household bills she hasn't paid since leaving.

So when I drop the kids off at MIL's this morning I was faced with a whole load of spew about solicitors, them having loads of money, W getting more than 50% share of the house sale money etc etc. All ridiculous stuff. No mention of the 10x amount that wife owes me.

Here's some logic for you:

* According to MIL, W shouldn't have to pay any household bills because she was 'forced' to move out (I moved out first). W chose to leave of her own free will.
* W should get more money from house sale because she has the kids (we have no legal arrangement there) despite not paying any bills.
* House is a mess still (W's mess from when she lived there - her clothes laying around etc) but it's my fault that I haven't tidied it up for her.
* A few other things I won't go into now.

I didn't bite for the most part but there's only so long anyone can put up with a bunch of halfwits! I have to drive past W's house on the way home so I pulled over and knocked on the door. No answer. I called her, asked if she was in. She said yes. I said I'm outside. She said, 'oh no, I'm not in'...Lies just stream out her these days!

You can't say a sentence of sense without hearing 'I'm not interested anyway' or 'that doesn't matter now' all because she doesn't like hearing anything resembling the truth.

Now, reading this I'm certain it comes across as obviously being biased in my favour. I am very polite on the phone with W but do set the record straight and won't accept the nonsense she comes out with to justify things (had an affair because she couldn't buy new clothes every week being one amongst many ridiculous excuses).

The conversation ended with agreement that the house money should be 50/50, divorce should happen ASAP, and we shouldn't fight. It's a shame I can't trust her as far as I can throw her these days!

[Luis P]

Hi Alpha

Sorry to hear about how the situation went and its fustrating, however, seems your in control of your feeling a little better. I saw your building a logical step on legal and I would recommend taking steps for your children just so you can rest emotionally that nobody will stop you seeing your children and start supporting your children financially by going through the Children Maintanance service, as they keep record of all payments given to your children. I again feel your a good father, but I too need to tell you, your wife is also a good person and she is going through a hard time because of the circuntances with also parents or friends involvement. However, as everybody told you, keep distance, switch off from wife, focus on your children (main priority) and learn to forgive and who knows, maybe you may be back together.

Alpha, I understood as well as everybody here in the forum, your a responsible person and did so much for her and your children, but are you expecting results back from her? There's a saying from Anthony Robbins (Give more than you shall receive), hope that makes some sense. It's difficult I know, but deal with the legal stuff first, children main course, and then sides second, and continue working on you.

I believe your doing great, and believe me you will feel better.

Take care and keep everyone updated.

[alpha99]

Hi all,

Nothing much to report, just thought I'd drop by. Contact with W varying between cordial and her whinging about money (life is hard supporting yourself apparently - who knew?), with it mainly being the latter.

Had MIL threaten me a few days ago. Apparently she has 'lots of money' and is going to 'sort things out'. It makes me laugh. I've moved emotionally to a much healthier place but unfortunately have to deal with sad, bitter people who are just craving a fight. They won't get one from me. They can all goto hell.

Had another date last week. Different girl. Nothing came of it but I'm enjoying the experience. Social life has gone crazy. I've made lots of new friends and have been busier than ever socially. This is the main difference for me recently. Children are fine, and I put them before everything.

Hope you're all well. I'll be back soon!

[DaddyLongShanks]

Hi all,

Nothing much to report, just thought I'd drop by. Contact with W varying between cordial and her whinging about money (life is hard supporting yourself apparently - who knew?), with it mainly being the latter.

Had MIL threaten me a few days ago. Apparently she has 'lots of money' and is going to 'sort things out'. It makes me laugh. I've moved emotionally to a much healthier place but unfortunately have to deal with sad, bitter people who are just craving a fight. They won't get one from me. They can all goto hell.

Had another date last week. Different girl. Nothing came of it but I'm enjoying the experience. Social life has gone crazy. I've made lots of new friends and have been busier than ever socially. This is the main difference for me recently. Children are fine, and I put them before everything.

Hope you're all well. I'll be back soon!

How is your Alpha level? I found a lot of myself realizing that I am the prize. Also I was unconsciously attempting to gain validation by "dbing", now I don't care about that.

It has made a huge difference in attraction and my confidence is starting to soar again.

It's amazing how long a bad situation can keep you down, in my case it was years... And I kept thinking I was at an emotional high...

Are you having quality dates for women? Are you finding dates who will spend their money, their time on you and are good people to deal with?

How do you feel?

HOw have you been taking care of your life?

[Sotto]

Hi Alpha - good to hear from you & pleased to hear about your great social life - good for you! In terms of your W & MIL, I think it's best to keep the positive links as much as you are able. I know it isn't easy, but given the kids, you're always going to have contact.

Are you pressing ahead with the house sale now??

((((Alpha))))

[DaddyLongShanks]

It's been two weeks. I want to hear some more Alpha progress and Alpha stories.

[alpha99]

Hi all,

Thanks for your comments above.

I realise it's been a while since I last posted so I thought I'd stop by and give an update.

At the moment life is going about as well as it could be! On the whole things seem to have settled down sitch wise. There is no positive change, nor do I think there will ever be, in terms of us getting back together - in fact I'm 99.9% sure that that's not what I want. I think only nostalgia and thoughts of the children and their upbringing would bring to mind any such idea. When the children are with me it is like nothing has changed - they are fantastic children and I make sure I put a huge effort in to do nice things with them and spend quality time with them.

When I think of myself and my sitch, I don't miss W at all. I'm not sat around waiting thinking of her or waiting for a call or text. In fact, when I see her it feels more like a burden having to put up with her to be honest. I think she is living the kind of life she wants to live these days, not compatible with mine it would seem. I have a feeling she is struggling to deal with her new found financial responsibilities. Anyway, having said all that when I do have to speak to her regarding the children etc we have been getting along largely OK. No arguments, fighting, or threats from her in a little while.

GAL activities have gone into overdrive. A few months back I was only going out once a month. Now, I am out up to 5 times a week doing various general social activities. I have made new friends and feel that socially I am in the best place I have ever been in.

I have been dating. In the last 6 weeks or so I've had a few dates with a few different women. I am always upfront about my sitch, having children, and everything else. The last few dates have gone well and may go somewhere. I don't feel bad or guilty as I thought I may before any of this started. It's not a case of reframing things to justify them, it's just that I think I was holding out some small hope that things might work out well sitch wise. They are clearly not going to. We'll see what happens on the dating score anyway.

Work is going better than it ever has. I am able to save a little money now and do more things now that I'm working properly once more.

[alpha99]

Well, I thought I'd add a little update here:

In my last post I said I was 99.9% convinced I wouldn't want to R with W. Well, that has changed to 100%. I'm not writing this full of emotion etc but I have just come back from a straining encounter with W. The gist being she has said for weeks she will pay some money towards our household bills. Neither of us are living there now but I'm paying everything. Unfortunately she is quite the liar these days and her promises to do things fall through. I dropped the kids off today and mentioned getting some of my stuff that had been taken to MIL's by mistake. This caused W to erupt, had to deal with a load of spew. She was gloating over her A. She looks like hell, has put on quite a bit of weight, and clearly is struggling financially as she is not going to pay her share of the bills.

She swore repeatedly in front of our D and said she would like to never have to see me again! A while ago I learnt not to take these things to heart so they don't really bother me anymore. I do not like arguing with anyone so that aspect still grates but I am happy in the knowledge that life will go on, despite W's behaviour our children will see a father they can be proud of, and I do actually feel in general far happier than I have in years.

We have plans in place regarding the sale of the house. A few days ago W called me about the house and we had what was a civil conversation in which she amazingly feels she can't trust me (ironic eh?). I said how I'd been straight and honest through everything and just wanted things sorted quickly and fairly. She agreed. Her actions speak differently though.

What I do want now is for the house to be sold asap and to divorce quickly afterwards. The woman I met and married has long since left the building, a carbon copy of MIL has taken over and it's like something out of a horror film.

[DaddyLongShanks]

Well, I thought I'd add a little update here:

In my last post I said I was 99.9% convinced I wouldn't want to R with W. Well, that has changed to 100%. I'm not writing this full of emotion etc but I have just come back from a straining encounter with W. The gist being she has said for weeks she will pay some money towards our household bills. Neither of us are living there now but I'm paying everything. Unfortunately she is quite the liar these days and her promises to do things fall through. I dropped the kids off today and mentioned getting some of my stuff that had been taken to MIL's by mistake. This caused W to erupt, had to deal with a load of spew. She was gloating over her A. She looks like hell, has put on quite a bit of weight, and clearly is struggling financially as she is not going to pay her share of the bills.

She swore repeatedly in front of our D and said she would like to never have to see me again! A while ago I learnt not to take these things to heart so they don't really bother me anymore. I do not like arguing with anyone so that aspect still grates but I am happy in the knowledge that life will go on, despite W's behaviour our children will see a father they can be proud of, and I do actually feel in general far happier than I have in years.

We have plans in place regarding the sale of the house. A few days ago W called me about the house and we had what was a civil conversation in which she amazingly feels she can't trust me (ironic eh?). I said how I'd been straight and honest through everything and just wanted things sorted quickly and fairly. She agreed. Her actions speak differently though.

What I do want now is for the house to be sold asap and to divorce quickly afterwards. The woman I met and married has long since left the building, a carbon copy of MIL has taken over and it's like something out of a horror film.

I believe you. When they become a non-repentant cheater and will take the lies with them "to the grave", it's like a greased piece of crap. If they had any integrity before, it's long gone. You are interacting with an entirely different person.

This person will screw you over in a heartbeat, all your work and support will be taken for granted, and you will not be respected.

I'm glad you are solid within your own frame. The woman former wife is today is not worthy of you.

[Complex]

Hi Alpha. Haven't checked in in a while. Sounds like you proceeded in a similar and positive way like I did.
Glad that you seem to fully have your life under control. Are you actually still bitter about everything or do you think that you will be in the future, looking back?
I'm wondering how you deal with those negative thoughts, because I still have them. I accept them and can deal with it but it's something that you cannot forget and if you want to or not you'll drag those around for a long time.
Glad to hear your children are still top priority too!
Have a nice weekend