Thanks for being candid. I am going to ask a very personal question, but certainly not uncommon here on the board. His dentistry needs, is that preventing intimacy now? If so, how long has it been?
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Can I accept him the way he is. I guess my answer is No. There are certain things I understand and accept. However, not seeing a dentist (and ultimately never kissing or being intimate again in my life), as well as not protecting me and the family with life insurance, how does one just accept that?
So, you are not getting several needs met. Lack of intimacy and security. As things stand, you probably feel no attraction for him, and the respect is shot. Those two areas are so important in a M.
Just curious, b/c I have zero knowledge about hypnotherapy, but would that help him in overcoming his fear about seeing a doctor, etc.? I suppose he would have to cooperate, in order for it to be effective. Ugh!
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Again, he didn’t really make many changes, and always slipped back to his ‘normal’ self.
His track record is all you have to measure any future outcome, right? I know how discouraging that is.
Let's talk about detaching. When most newcomers first arrive and get the advice to detach, they think of physically detaching. Sometimes it may be necessary to physically pull away, but it is mainly a mental detachment from the other spouse. Detaching is to protect yourself from the affect he is having on you at this time. It is an attitude more than anything else. It's a way of thinking. You do not have to pull back from your family. If he's among the others in the room, you don't have to leave simply b/c he's there. I am going to copy & paste a post from a former member that give a very detailed description. I think it will better explain to you what detaching is all about.
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Question – would DB or DR be most appropriate for me to read based on my situation?
From what I've read, the majority usually go with DR.
So, stay honest with yourself. Do not let anyone pressure you into doing something you don't want to do. You do not have to make any quick decisions about your M right now.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)
I. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.
When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.
When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.
Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’
It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.
We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).
We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)
PART II Detachment (found around here)
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.
* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be." _________________________
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
H's dentistry needs. I had noticed some small issues in the beginning, however a couple years ago, I couldn't kiss him anymore. His breath is always really bad, and you can see that his teeth shift. I even asked him a few months ago if one of his teeth broke, and he admitted it had. He obviously has periodontal disease and I fear that it will affect his overall health as well (which is well document that it can affect many other things). So although he is a nice looking man, I am really not attracted to him in an intimate way.
I've asked him many times about Hypnotherapy. He said he would try it back in October, and he did one sessions, which wasn't very successful (he is very analytical, and says he doesn't think it will work for him, I advised that with that attitude it won't) He never asked again.
When we talked a couple weeks ago, he said he obviously HAS to do hypnotherapy with me (he wouldn't trust someone else) as that is the only option available to him (in his mind), and since that discussion, he hasn't mentioned it since.
I feel he probably had some trauma in his childhood causing all these issues (parents divorced, Dad was an alcoholic, but he doesn't remember his dad being abusive or negative in any way).
He has always said he needs my help with getting better, however nothing I've done (positive and negative reinforcement) has worked.
You are correct, Sandi, I don't have to make a decision now. I do have work I can do, and I need to focus on that. I feel calmer today, not on the verge of tears, which is good. Doing the gardening last night helped me. Deciding to finish the garden on my own feels good. I don't need his acceptance or permission, and I'll feel better about it.
Part of me wants to give him time, another part feels I've given him too much time already (to make changes). Would be so much easier if I didn't care.
Hi Danigirl As a LBS can I just thank you for not giving up on your M without a fight. I don't know where your M will end up but you are fighting for it which a lot of us on here would ha e loved out WAS to have done. I will follow your posts with interest and again I appalud you for trying everything before you decided what's best for you.
I understand your issue on the hygiene, my H smokes very heavily and if you read my sitch is a little intermittent on his personal hygiene, clothes washing bedding etc. At one stage his bed had not been washed for 6 weeks. Eventually his sister said something to him about it. (Unprompted) it improved.
Not perfect. dental hygiene is poor too. I partly solved that by suggesting teeth cleaning gum and a new sonic tooth brush. But it is not very attractive or pleasant! I have tooth problems myself and am very particular.
My H diet is very poor and he is malodorous as a result, ripe on occasion. He uses a depderant which smells like fly spray. It is no wonder his POWs are never becoming OWs.
I just leave it, it's H issue but I have told him he can not meet clients. It is gradually getting better. NLP has some great phobia cures too. There is a great ad on our TV which has a teenagers bedroom and 'nose blind' and every time it comes on I think of my H. His mum and sisters fill the bedroom with sweaty althletes so the teenager understands the issue. Humour.
It is unpleasant to be around. Sigh.......
But I think it's depression and phobia about dentist. What about pain? Dental pain is horrific, isn't H in agony? Could it be H tonsils too? His teeth will eventually all drop out and then it will be soup diet. I really don't get it either Dani! But I am not phobic.
So why did I stay/go back?
1. I am not finished yet with my own growth there are still choices to make for me 2. My vows really mean something to me 3. I already have one marriage ending in divorce 4. Some of this is my responsibility 5. I want to ensure that I have done as much as I can before I D 6. Some little things are working 7. I need to sell the big House to pay off H 8. I want to turn my business and fins 180 9. I have not scored highly on some items on Sandi guidelines 10. The abuse has stopped in its cycle. Dead stop and I am keen to ensure it stays stopped 11. I have chosen to stay loving even though it is tough
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I suppose you have told him the effect this has on you? Sometimes we have to be painfully blunt (just look at how many men say their WAW never talked about their unhappiness). If your H knows he is not getting sex due to his teeth/mouth issues, he must really have psychological problems. I'm sure he has already physically suffered more by not going, than what he would experience in the dentist's chair.
My first childhood visit to a dentist was traumatic for me. It affected me to point I had to be out of my head with pain before I would relent to go the dentist. However, modern times has changed so much from the way it used to be. They don't have the drills hanging from the ceiling and all the needles, picks, and other tools laid out in open view. I mean, the scene alone could have scared a kid half to death. Now, if they would learn to put a silencer on those drills......
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
H is definitely aware why I won't kiss him, he is extremely embarassed! Only have a moment, started a new position at work!
Oh, i sent H a link to a couple of youtube videos from Tedtalks. A psychiatrist (i think) has spent her life researching shame, which is really when someone feels they have no value. Also about being vulnerable. Her name is Brene Brown if anyone wants to look her up. I definitely think my H feels shame. Ge emailed my today saying thanks and that they were very interesting.
Hello everyone, I thank you all for sharing in my story and offering support and assistance. I feel very safe here.
Today was a long day. I started a 4 month secondment, and am working longer hours, 4 days on and then 4 days off. I'm quite exhausted right now.
I came home and H had started making dinner. I actually approached him and offered a hug...well rather, I really wanted a hug. I've missed that contact. Up to now I was too afraid to, afraid to offer him hope, when I wasn't positive there was any.
We talked more than we have these last couple weeks. Mostly talking about work (interesting stories) and catching up that way.
I'm feeling complacent (sp?). Like things have settled, the emotions have subsided, and things are slipping back to our 'normal'. I really dislike the up-down-up again feelings, no one day is the same it seems.
I did purchase a book, however, by the lady I mentioned above who gave the TedTalks. I think I will learn alot from her, about being vulnerable and opening up - which is funny, as I've always been a talker - I like to talk things out, it's how I can analyse things - almost like as the words come out, they make formations in the air where I can see things more clearly.
Vanilla, thank you for saying your reasons for staying. I wonder, however, if all the changes you have made, and are still making, would happen more smoothly, maybe more quickly, if you weren't in the environment at home. I suppose, though, that is the idea behind detaching.
I think because this type of situation (trying to work on staying, rather than working on have someone stay) makes it hard for me to determine exactly what I should be doing. Should I be detaching? When you want someone to stay, you let them go, be themselves, and don't talk relationship, however is that also the case in this sitch? Do I sit quiet instead of reminding him he promised to do hypnotherapy? I feel if I detach, and don't talk relationship, and keep going to counselling, that really, I will pull away more. I was never a 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' kind of person.
I had already separated my life somewhat, already made my own plans, do things on my own, am I supposed to do it more?
I guess my original title, So Confused, is still relevant.
Take extra care with yourself. Rest, great food, warm bath and gentleness.
Do you know what exactly the fear for H is with the dentist?
The things I can think of and has my H about were:
The environment (surgery itself) The dentist The noise The pain The suffocation, lying back on a couch The opening of the mouth and discomfort The shame of the state of the teeth The cost of dental care
These fears are obviously very great in your H. Is it possibly a fear of intimacy?
In my H case he tells me it is the instruments and noise which are scary. He does not like sitting in the waiting rooms either. The same thing with doctors surgeries but opticians are ok! He won't use changing rooms in shops too. So might be a little claustrophobia going on. The opticians have large open windows.
Dani, there or not there will make little difference now. I can detach well now. If H is abusive then then my boundaries will be infringed. Dani I can only reflect on my own experience. What is it that enables me to stay rather than what is preventing me from going.? It seems to me these are different positions. Creating boundaries so that I can stand has been harder than either leaving or preventing myself from leaving. If that makes sense. An environment in which I stay gives me more opportunity to grow and helps my personal stability. If it makes sense I am not preventing myself from walking but creating an environment to stand and DB.
So if I look at it from a point of view of Standing (not staying) under what conditions can I do that?
1. There is no abuse 2. H is at least pleasant to be around 3. I have my own life and GAL 4. I remain detached 5. My boundaries are enforced by me 6. H is not drunk around me 7. I have IC and support 8. I can work 9. Life is peaceful and quiet 10. I have my own room 11. I am still growing and becoming so my own concerns are vital
Eventually I will need more than this in my life but for now it is enough.
Rest dear one
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 04/10/1505:41 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Ugh!