Hi RAI, I am new here too. I've learned in the brief time here that detaching from snooping is the best thing for YOUR sanity. What do you expect to find? You already know there is an affair. All it's doing is adding to your mental exhaustion.
It sounds like you already have plenty of evidence of her irrational behavior, no sense in dragging it on longer.
Married 4/20/99 Found out H cheating 3/15/15 Me45 H48 D14 S10
You do sound exhausted, RAI. No wonder. You're going through so much. There's the BD and then there is a lot to reflect upon your own nature. And in the middle of it all, you have to exert unprecedented control on your own behavior. Give yourself some credit. You're not doing so bad. Keep swimming.
You mention that you made tons of phone calls for the mediation appointment. I suspect it's the Nice Guy in you. When W told you that she can't hold the appointment, you could have told her "Well, if you can't let me know and make sure to call the mediator." It's a crisis of her own making: don't step in to bear the consequences. Remember that it's about re-creating attraction.
As for your talk with her, I just don't know. Are you telling us that the recent developments (texts) mean that YOU really want to move on with the dissolution process? That's perfectly fine. I'm just checking that you're not getting it to get a response out of her. I don't get all the details of your conversation today, but generally avoid getting heated - leave the room if necessary - and never make ultimatums that you can't enforce. That's very weak.
Finally, about the snooping. It's not all bad. It's good in the beginning to know what you are dealing with. Starsky309 might come over to give you his idea about it, because he advocates some information gathering. But once you know what is going on, to what extent, etc. then more snooping is just meant to gather the painful information. Give it up. So, do you feel you really know what's going on with your W?
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
You are both totally right. I know that every time I have snooped I have felt worse afterwards. How it happened this time is that I was planning on cutting off Ws phone service - letting her pay for her own phone. So I had to call my carrier. While I was on the carriers website I could not help myself. I felt a very strong urge to check her usage. The whole day after that is a blur. Some days I am so detached and other days I fall into the same old trap. Uggh. Somebody stop the merry-go-round!
Toots,
I am reading and re-reading your post. I really appreciate your empathy and encouragement. It came at just the right time.
We did go ahead with the mediation appointment after all. I arranged for a baby sitter at the last minute to show my WW that I am serious about proceeding with dissolution. At first she was asking me to set her free. Now, I wish she would set me free. Unfortunately, D is a total misnomer. Instead of being free, I will be legally shackled to my STBXW for as long as we live.
I won't bore anyone with the specifics of my appointment, but it seems like every option re: shared parenting and finances is terrible. Every decision feels like a lose-lose situation. If I had a choice, I would have avoided D like the plague. I can't understand how someone would willingly choose D.
Originally Posted By: Mozza
Are you telling us that the recent developments (texts) mean that YOU really want to move on with the dissolution process? That's perfectly fine. I'm just checking that you're not getting it to get a response out of her.
Mozza,
I don't know anymore. you can probably see my ambivalence in the above paragraphs. On one hand, I have had enough. It is very hard to be in the same house as her and keep up a PMA - so I want to proceed. On the other hand, I also feel like if I say "bring it on", she will begin to understand that it is no longer a fantasy. There are going to be real emotional and financial consequences - so I want a response. Lastly, I love my children so much that it kills me to think about what they are about to go through - as if the last two years weren't enough. Honestly, if I could do anything to prevent this from happening, I would. Clearly, I do not control my W and the only thing I can do is detach. So, I want to proceed and I don't want to proceed.
BTW, My ego is still smarting as well. It still hurts to see how eager she is to D. It is hard to fathom how much she dislikes me.
I also wanted to address you lengthy post to me from last week. I have read NMMNG. I recognize certain aspects of a "nice guy" in me, but I really don't feel I have that much in common. I don't seem to match any of the Nice Guys that Glover describes.
I came from a very stable home with emotionally available parents. I really tried to find some instance where I felt abandoned. Nada. My father was very present. My mother was not controlling. They got along fabulously until my fathers dying day. I don't have any shameful habits or secrets: There was a time I would surf to porn sites, but I never hid it from my wife and it became less and less frequent. I never harbored guilt over it. My relationship with my W, pre-A, did not resemble any of the cases that Glover describes. My wife was not a fixer-upper. She was not difficult to please. She never claimed that I was not emotionally available. I did not go out of my way to please her. I have no problem relating to other men. I don't hide my mistakes. I don't think I was passive aggressive (pre-A). I don't "give to get" (covert contracts). Intimacy was good. There was a time when my W was less interested in ML, but that had improved drastically. I am NOT monogamous to my mother. I don't feel like my life should be perfect or that I am owed anything for being nice.
Where I do fit the Nice guy mold? trying to always do the right thing. Sometimes I would go out of my way to help others. I do seek approval from others - sometimes, but not always. I sometimes neglect myself. I did try to be different from my father - I felt he was not strict enough - but I don't think that is what Glover had in mind. Do I have toxic shame? I might call it low self-esteem, but maybe? I did refer to myself as a parents dream and low-maintenance. I do worry about putting my needs before the children, but I think this is mostly post-A, as I fear my W will hold it against me regarding custody.
So I may be an "I'm so good" nice guy, but I am not convinced. I really tried to read the book with an open mind. I am just not feeling it. If you pinned me down, I would say that I have some nice guy qualities, but I think if I were to compare myself to the general population of men, I would fall somewhere in the middle of the curve.
RAI
P.S. I don't do laundry. I was washing my gym clothes for the first time - EVER! - to detach from my W. I found her undies when I emptied the dryer.
It is a rare long night of posting, so I am going to end by thanking everyone who posted to my thread when I really needed it (vis a vis, setting boundaries with my W). In particular, HeavyD, lost18, raliced, T0324, Mozza, Jim0987, Fogg, and Wonka.
Thanks for your support, kick in the pants, empathy, observations etc...
I still am working on those boundaries. I feel a bit more empowered to set them, but I am wondering about the utility at this point if we are heading into dissolution. I am not sure I want to save my M. I don't even think I could if I wanted to. So what is the purpose of kicking her out of the marital BR if we will be separated in due time?
RAI
P.S. Smothy I am glad you found my thread empowering. It is heartening that good can come from even the direst of situations.
Not sure I have much advice, but I totally get where and why you are at the place between wanting to save your M and wanting out. I go back and forth with that constantly. I want to save my M but I just don't know it will ever happen, and if it does I'm not sure it will look the way I would like it to. A loving, trusting R with 2 people who give to each other and truly enjoy being together. I guess maybe I'm not doing something right because I feel like I'm giving up a big part of myself when I'm supposes to be working on myself. Don't get me wrong, I am trying to work on myself too, but the situation makes me feel like I'm giving up what I want (a loving R) to save the one I have. Hope that makes sense.
I was reading another thread and the DBer was also back and forth in regard to wanting to save their M or give up. Cadet gave the advice that it doesn't matter what side of the fence you're on right now, work on yourself. If the time comes when the WA wants to reconcile, then you take your love box out of the closet, dust it off and decide what you want.
So, I guess along those lines I would say to work on becoming the best person you can be for YOU and your kids. Don't say or do anything to your W that would take you int he opposite direction of R if you may want it someday. I know somebody else could say that better but I'm sure you get the gist.
As far as the BR, the purpose of kicking her out is for you. You're well-being, sanity and standing up for yourself. If you feel it is in your best interest to allow her to stay then let her stay. Still don't have much advice on that, I've been tempted several times to tell my H to move out....the best I have is to do what feels right for you.
Me-44 (45) H- 50 (51) M-'96
S-18(20)D-15(17)D-12(14)
BD Feb 2014 (he works overseas) home Oct(sep rooms) (EAs possible Pa's unconfirmed) insists wants D through July 2015 no more talk of D since
Cadet and Lost18 are right: It doesn't matter. Unless you know you don't want the M, then leave your options open. As I just wrote on my thread (sitch 7 months in), I stopeed even wondering if I want to save the M or not because it doesn't change my actions. What I do in DB is what I should be doing anyway, to spare myself a lot of trouble, to protect my dignity and my self-respect.
As for the MBR, the purpose is not only to restore your sanity, it is also to gain her respect. Perhaps it will be clearer if the roles are reversed. Imagine you have an A, your W knows about it and yet she still tries to placate you and avoid rocking the boat, letting you stay in the marital bed for instance. Now imagine the opposite: she calmly tells you: "I don't want to lose you, but I will have none of that. You leave the marital bed as long as this lasts." Which one of the two do you respect and love?
Another thing that I repeat a lot to newcomers: it ain't over til it's over. And even then, it isn't over. Don't think that because you're headed to dissolution, your M is over. Don't you think that people who saved their M just before signing their D papers also thought that it was over at your stage? And people even get back together and remarry after D, which can be a good cleaning treatment for a relationship. If it isn't clear to you yet, read more of the success stories at the top of my thread. For instance, T0324 just had her D proceedings completely canceled yesterday. Her sitch lasted 16 months and was a sure D in her mind at some point.
So stop obsessing about what will be or not. You just don't know. You don't. Do the right thing and leave your options open.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
I'm glad to see you back - I got a little worried when you dropped off there for awhile.
Lost and Mozza have given you some good advice regarding your ambivalence about saving the marriage. I would add that no matter what becomes of your legal marriage, you will always be family with her because you share children and will one day have mutual grandchildren. All the things that you are doing here, the enforcing of boundaries, the self improvement and GAL will help with that relationship as well.
To me there is a distinct difference between deciding to proceed or cooperate with the dissolution/divorce, which is often an entirely practical and logical choice which must be done for the financial security of the LBS and children, and making a decision about whether or not you are "done" with the relationship. And again, you will always have some relationship with her, there is no hurry on your "decision" about what you want that relationship to look like.
I know that for many, once the divorce is done, they are done. Obviously, I don't fall into that camp. You'll have to choose what is right for you.
