Trying to Follow DB & DR (2)

[Miman2]

We wanted to stop the swinging, I would like to stop the poly lifestyle but I'm willing to be poly flexible if the sitch works out that way.

I think more importantly my IC wants a bit of closure between me and the OC. The OW and I were intimate and there was no point of closure between us.

I think it was more of me that brought me to this point, the W mentioned that she had been thinking of leaving for a while yesterday (WAS!!). I think it was the OC that allowed the W a point of escape. I think I have to get myself to the point of being able to forgive and forget the past with them. They are after all the only ones looking after the W right now, no matter how much they might support her waywardness (I think they gave her that ring she was wearing last night!! )

[Fogg]

We wanted to stop the swinging, I would like to stop the poly lifestyle but I'm willing to be poly flexible if the sitch works out that way.

I believe I said this before, but you seem to know deep down what you really want yet keep contradicting yourself. You don't want this lifestyle but your willing to keep doing it if you get to keep your W. Why? You really have some soul searching to do on this issue before you make any type of decision. If you truly don't want this and the sole reason is to get your W back then these problems will just resurface in the future. Stand up for what you really want, be true to yourself.

You said you both wanted to stop this at one point, who's to say she doesn't want to stop also but is confused right now. I would much rather attract my W back to the man I want to be instead of pretending to be something I THINK she wants. Become the man YOU want to be first.

[MrBond]

Honestly it doesn't seem like you want to stop your poly lifestyle. You go to church, yet you find a counselor who appears to encourage the poly life to a degree and you actually asked your W about the OC's W and how she feels about you.

WHO CARES? Are you married to the OW? Are you trying to reconcile with the OW? If not, then why ask?

You don't seem to want to do the work to get yourself strong and not have to depend on women to make you happy.

[Miman2]

I was referred to my current counselor by my previous counselor specifically because my case involved swinging and poly. I guess the previous counselor thought that handing me over to someone with experience with swinging and poly would put me in the best hands.

He seemed to think that the OC's W would be someone I could get support from. She was a friend and she no longer treats me as such. Anyone might seek closure from that. Other than that it's a point of common interest to talk to the W with. Nothing more than that.

You don't seem to want to do the work to get yourself strong and not have to depend on women to make you happy.

I don't know where you got that from at all. I don't need women to make me happy, being a kind considerate person makes me happy. Helping people and teaching people makes me happy. Maybe I don't understand how I'm failing at doing the work to get my self strong, or maybe I don't understand what work you refer to.

What I've been trying to say is I know they OC has a part in playing in getting me to where I am. But I KNOW that a majority of the fault lies within me and how I've acted. How is that not getting stronger? I'm tackling my issues face first and knocking them out one-by-one as they come up. I'm facing up to my down falls and not blaming someone else. I'm trying to forgive someone else who has played their part and move on. If that's not being strong and being the better person then I don't know what in the hell is.

I mentioned trying to go without interacting with the W before I was ready but she beat me to the punch. She's hurting because of her loss and I was emotionally unsupportive during our M. So I'm wondering if it would be a good 180 at this point in time to try and be more supportive.

A lot of her questions the other day centered around the fact that I hadn't tried to reach out to her and if I even had ever wanted to during my LRT. Now during this time where she's emotionally most vulnerable I'm not supposed to be there to support her? I'm not bailing her out of a situation she got her self into or crossing any other lines set by the act of detaching. I'm acting out of pure compassion and empathy like any good person would. How is that not strong?

Can we not focus on the swinging/poly so much?
Is it something I can really work on right now?
Other than not fracking or falling in love with someone else at the moment then no.

Otherwise it is a personal boundary that I have to decide upon by myself. The W already thinks I've moved on and have no interest in reaching out to her enough as it is. If I draw that line too far then she'll see absolutely no doors open.

I cannot allow myself or my actions to be judged purely by where I choose to draw that boundary. I believe there's a current thread here where there is a debate on whether or not dating while separated is allowable. That too is a personal boundary that each person needs to be allowed to set by themselves, other people are entitled to their opinions. While I appreciate the sentiment, I do not appreciate the judgement that comes along for the ride.

Instead I have come to ask for help on the implementation of DB and DR as it applies to my WAS. What I would like is some constructive criticism. What am I doing right and why, what needs improvement and why...

On a side note: After a lot of thought I do consider it a baby-step victory that she said good night to me in her text last night.

[Fogg]

I mentioned trying to go without interacting with the W before I was ready but she beat me to the punch. She's hurting because of her loss and I was emotionally unsupportive during our M. So I'm wondering if it would be a good 180 at this point in time to try and be more supportive.

Bumping this because I've been thinking about this the last day and was wondering also.

I know you probably done hearing so much about the poly situation, but it's what makes the situation so complicated, so advice has to take that into account at times. A 180 like that to a WW might not be appropriate, but since you and W were apart of the lifestyle it's confusing if it's more a WW or WAW situation.

My opinion also(could be completely wrong to DB), if you want to follow your counselors advice and you trust it, try it. You know the situation best, counselor likely second best.

As for not working on the poly/swinging thing right now, you absolutely can. Within yourself. Figure out what you want. Determine the man you want to be, just don't do it for your W, your counselor or these forums. Figure it out for yourself. That's likely to take a while but you need to address it at some point.

[Miman2]

Not a great PMA day today. Went to the Japanese meetup but felt alone in a group of people. Tried talking to people but my mind kept drifting back to my problems. I snapped the rubber band on my wrist like crazy but still too much hurt coming through.

[Miman2]

I know you probably done hearing so much about the poly situation, but it's what makes the situation so complicated, so advice has to take that into account at times. A 180 like that to a WW might not be appropriate, but since you and W were apart of the lifestyle it's confusing if it's more a WW or WAW situation.

That has been my dilemma the entire time.
Everything she has said and everything she has done has WAW written all over it.
The fact that she's continued to see the OC that we were both involved with that makes it feel like it's a WW situation.

But the core issue on why we're S now has very little to do with the OC. From what I've seen and heard from the W she was ready to walk with or without them around. They supplied a shoulder for her to lean on while she made her move. I'm not saying they didn't play any part. I'm not saying that being in the lifestyle didn't play its part.

I've opened that Pandora's box and I have to live with having done so.
The man I want to be supports his W's decisions no matter what they may be, as long as they don't infringe on my boundaries.

So if I may for a moment try to logically think things out loud...
Ever since my IC has mentioned the MTT book here's where it feels like my boundaries lay.
Is swinging in my boundaries? No.
Can a poly relationship be within my boundaries? Maybe, but that in itself has more boundaries that are in place to protect myself. If those boundaries are not respected then no. Right now the W is not respecting those boundaries and so my answer would have to be no.

Did I express my boundaries to her and the OC? Sorta, definitely not in the most eloquently way possible. We were all new to this and so we had no idea what we were doing. Everyone else didn't see how my boundaries could be construed as anything other than jealousy and so they ignored my uncomfort with them crossing my boundaries and thus my feelings were hurt. The W stated she didn't care about my boundaries because of the ILYBINILYW, signature of the WAW. So that's why I would have to say no to the poly-lifestyle. Had the situation played out different, who knows...

[Fogg]

Your logic makes sense, I just don't know what your best course of action is. Its rough because its so different than some situations are.

I do understand that frustration though, trust me. In my case I had the WAW issues just as you did, which were set off by the miscarriage and wife becoming depressed W, leading to becoming WW to fill that void. I struggled with identifying her for a long time. Is she WAW, is she depressed W, is she WW? Each seemed to have a slightly different approach to DB'ing, so I felt I needed to know which so I could DB effectively.

I still don't know if the way I'm DB'ing is correct, but I'm taking into considering the advice on here, my IC's suggestions and what I think also. As of right now I'm taking bits of each and incorporating them together. Remember, there's no guaranteed way to do all of this, were all just somewhat going with what could work. DB has shown it can work, so its something we try. As for which your W is, if you feel she is more WAW, then try to DB that way and see what happens. Just understand she is also WW to some extent, so be prepared to back off if the things your doing don't seen to be working.

Also, please understand I really don't know what I'm talking about 100%, I'm just throwing out ideas. Its a blind leading the blind situation right now and I would hate to give you advice that would hurt your situation.

[Miman2]

I understand that it's the blind leading the blind completely. lol
That's part of the reason I hesitate to poke into other people's threads. I try to just leave good wishes or occasionally my opinion.

Here's the thing.

For the WW the advice is to cut off all contact from them until they leave the OP.

The other night when talking to my W she seemed genuinely upset that I didn't reach out or even seem like I wanted to reach out to her. She even mentioned she thought I was happy, doing great and had moved on because I didn't reach out to her.

If I'm supposed to experiment and see what works it seems like I might have her attention for the time being but 100% NC she will decide that I've moved on and now so can she. She's usually not the type to reach out, so the fact that she called me the other day was actually a bit of a surprise. I worry now that if I continue NC she'll see it as me not caring, even though it's DB. I feel like I need to allow her to check in a bit more often so she can see the changes but I'm trying to figure out how to do it without "pursuing" :-/

[Miman2]

PMA started low today. Had dreams about the W and kept waking up every 2 hours. :-/

Called my mom on the way to church this morning. She's convinced that because I worry, I don't have enough faith in God to help me during this situation. That me worrying is a sign that I don't have enough faith.

I told her I feel it's not that. I have faith that God will help me during this situation, but when I have my therapist and friends telling me to let go because it's over, it rattles me and makes me sad. I keep trying to focus on the positive signs that came out of having dinner with the W.

She's still concerned about me.
She worries about me.
She wonders why I haven't reached out to her.
She worries that I never wanted to reach out to her.
She wants to be friends.
She wants to still meet up.
She wants me to keep in touch with her.
No actual mention of D.
She acknowledged I was taking great care of the cats.
She acknowledged I was looking great/lost a lot of weight and that she noticed I was wearing a shirt she had put away because it didn't fit.
She asked if I was seeing anyone.
She was curious about me "going out with friends".
She texted that she was glad we had dinner and said good night afterwards.

The negative stuff can be dealt with...

After church the father came up and asked how I was doing. When I went to him for reconciliation he mentioned he could find a list of faith friendly IC's for me. I told him a bit about the dinner on Thursday and told him I'd like to look for a new councilor and maybe do another reconciliation with him.

Afterwards on the way home, talked to the parents a bit more. PMA picked up significantly. Not 100% but better than this morning.