danigirlbc - updating

[Maybell]

Hey, Danigirl, I'm sorry for your troubles. I wish I could give you advice but I think Sandi and Vanilla are who you need. Just wanted to give you support and hugs.

[Mozza]

Danigirl - I wanted to tell you that you are in the right place. Among other things, you can see here the point of view from the other side. The behaviors that you describe from your husband, while unique to him, also reflect what several regretful H came here to confess after their W left. And they shaped up. Have a look at Minman2 who was playing video games and not doing anything around the house. Now he's the best housekeeper in town.

As for me, I identify with the failure of your H to understand the depth of the crisis. I was blind and deaf to my WW's clear signals until she said the word "separation", but by then it was too late. Other LBH have had other triggers, such as discovering an affair or their W moving out. It sounds like your H hasn't reached that point yet.

Ask questions to LBH like me and so many others. We will hear you loud and clear.

[sandi2]

It sounds as if you made a decision based on what was best for your family, and not your own personal needs at the time you ended the A. I did the same, in my stitch. I will tell anyone that it is not an easy task. When the feelings for your H are shot and there is an OM filling your EN, it takes about all the strength you can draw to end what "may have been". I felt so hopeless in my stitch, and I saw OM as my possible ticket to escape from my painful reality. Of course, I know now it would have been a disastrous mistake, but at that time I was deep into the fantasy.

You said your H wanted to stay after discovering the A. Did that discovery seem to wake him up at all? Other than giving you space for a while, did you ever see any effort coming from him?

My H never wanted to talk about our MR, and whenever he heard me say, "We need to talk", you could see the dread in his face. But I kept trying, kept trying to get him to talk about it, and continued using the same method expecting changes.....so I guess I was insane.

How are you dealing with resentment? I can see where you have been given plenty of reasons to have resentful feelings. As women, we usually look to the man as the stronger person, the leader of our family, the provider and protector. When things are out of order, we might be able to handle it for a while, without too much affecting our feelings. However, when the entire weight of responsibility for the welfare of our family falls squarely on our shoulders....it gets emotionally very heavy. IMHO, we can put on a brave face, (and some of us may actually do a better job at managing than the man), but our inner nature wants to be able to depend upon him as our a stabilizing foundation for us and our children.

I am older than you and in a different stage of my life now. My H's health is bad and he had to retire (without benefits, I might add), so the financial responsibility fell completely on me. Most everything done around the house falls on me also, b/c of his health problems. But here's the thing, Dani. It doesn't bother me now, b/c aging and declining health is eventually a natural process in life. It doesn't affect my respect for him. However, if he was younger/healthy, you better believe I would be singing a different tune! In fact, if you get very far in my story, you'll see the similarities in H's and our stories. So, I'm thinking it hasn't been easy for you to have the respect for your H that you wanted to have. Am I right?

FWIW, I wouldn't worry about having a R talk with your H at the present time. And frankly, seeking a commitment of action from him is probably useless at the moment, due to his frame of mind. If your A did not have enough force to jolt him into making changes, or at least some improvement, I think he will just resign himself to live in a one room apartment for the rest of his life. B/c right now, he must be much like you've described his son. I am concerned that you may have a father/son "set", unless someone or some thing can intervene to help.

When pressure is applied to your H, how does he deal with it? Shuts down, crawls into his cave, says the right words but no action, or what?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'm just trying to get a better picture of him. How do the grown children deal with his depression & apathy? Do they see what you see, or do they make excuses for him?

I think you are smart to be concerned about his statement of wanting to die. As bad as you would hate to go to that extreme, it may get to point that requires getting assistance in protection against himself.

I am not in the medical field and do not pretend to know about your H's mental issues, so please don't misunderstand my desire to help in some small way. I do hope you will not agree with him that the grown boys will live with you, and let him know that his son will not be your responsibility for the rest of your life. Although you may love your SS, his father should not think he gets to slide out and leave the work/responsibility on your shoulders. That's JMHO, and I don't know the time or manner in which to get that message across to him, but it doesn't seem right for you to take on the stress of giving a home to his grown sons. Would his son qualify for an assisted living type of program?

I think your level of frustration might kill some people if they had to walk in your shoes. ((Dani)) If nothing else, you can use this place to let off emotional steam. There are people from many walks of life here, and maybe someone will be able to suggest something doable in your stitch with the SS.

As for your feelings toward your H and your confusion about what to do, I am here for you. I understand those feelings very well. I think maybe guilt plays a part in your decision to end the A and stay with your H. It may still be working overtime with your mind.

[Danigirl]

Hello, apologies for my absence the last few days. It's definitely been emotional. Here is an update: H is not on any meds, nor has been. His fear of doctor/dentist makes it so he won't go. He has turned down marriage counselling - too hard to talk personal stuff with a stranger.

My appointment was eyeopening. Lots of tears, and the realization that I feel responsible for everyone's happiness. How things with H have gone on for so long, that I feel alone, and neglected. That I'm constantly making sure everyone else is ok, yet no one is making sure I am. She said that she'd like to work with me on getting down to my real emotions - that everytime I started to go down there, I'd switch it up and go in another direction.

I admitted that I have a fear of having to make a decision. Fear that I will tear the family apart. Fear he will be a her mit and neglect the kids. Realizing how alone and abandoned I've felt for so many years was hard.

Tonight was awkward. We just watched a movie. Sat, with the tv on, playing on our phones, not talking. He knows how serious I am this time, and doesn't know how to handle it (just my opinion)

I have so much to work through in my mind. I'm a talker, like to talk it out, but haven't really had that outlet. My parents return tomorrow from 2 months away. I want to talk with my mom, but don't want to burden her either, so I may wait.

Tomorrow I'm forcing myself to go to yoga - I've not gone in 3 weeks, and normally love it. I need to get back in the game of life.

I have read Sandi's rules. I will read them again after posting.

So thankful for this place of support!

[Danigirl]

Sandi, I think I missed your post! Here are some answers...

H's discovery of the A made him wake up temporarily. I don't think he ever was able to fully see why I was unhappy. He has only ever made effort for a week or so, and then back to normal (and these conversations about my being unhappy have been happening for years)

Resentment has been a huge part of my life. I'm not as resentful now, as I have a better understanding of how his mind works (or doesn't). I have in the past been very resentful. I just wanted for once to be taken care of. You are right, the role reversal for such a long time has been hard. I was raised to be strong and independent, however that doesn't mean I don't need some TLC at times. I've had so many aspirations and if he had stepped up to the plate even once, things may be different.

Thanks for the advise on talking to H. You are correct, he does tend to shut down when i want to talk. Definitely a cave dweller!

The kids don't really see what I see. He's been a fairly decent father. He has fun with the kids and they love him (oh, just remembering another bone of contention, I used to have to bug him to go to our daughter's soccer games, and last year I finally made him take her to half the practices) He talks alot about what he 'dreams' to do. So the kids, I believe, think of him as this active person, when really, they have yet to realize that he never actually does these things.

Sandi, I'm going to read more of your story. Your message showed me just how much you have experienced that is similar.

I'm going to work hard this week to beef my life back up to how it was. Seeing friends, exercising, doing fun things. I've been letting this affect me too much (albeit understandable).

[Zues126]

Danigirl. Glad you're making the decision to exhaust what you can do for yourself before making any bigger changes.

For me, my biggest two issues were that I was depressed, and that I didn't sit well with my feelings and would avoid them.

I found out that while my depression was "real", it was magnified in that I used it to manipulate my STBX. Basically when she behaved lovingly towards me it made me feel better, so therefor I concluded that it was her job to make me happy, and when she didn't do enough to compensate for my bad feelings I blamed her for my unhappiness. Then I would be unpleasant as a sign to her she needed to get it right.

I also found out who really was neglecting me: ME. My psychologist said I have a fear of abandonment, but my parents were really there for me. It wasn't until I realized that I abandoned myself that it made sense. Somewhere around age 10-12 it's like I made the decision that feelings were stupid and I didn't need them. Anytime I felt anything I just stuffed it and went into hyperdrive mode, charging around, making things happen, crushing goals, setting records, whatever. Emotions were just too much to deal with.

As I've been disconnected with my STBX there is no reason to enhance my pain because there is no one to control. No one cares if I suffer but me. And I am learning to be there for myself, to feel my emotions, and to manage through them. Behind this all was a lot of FEAR. Until I was to this point I was terrified of when the next dark wave would crash. My IC says that we don't fear bad things happening, we fear that we'll be unable to handle the emotions that come. As I learn more about how to handle negative emotions I am less fearful, and have begun to manage my life again.

Not saying this is you in any way, just wanted to share some things I've gone through. If anything, my hope is that in your own way you can make enough changes on your end that you can change the universe you're living in without having to change the life you're living first.

Thanks for sticking around and talking it through!

[Danigirl]

Thanks Zeus for being so forthright.

I'm not sure how to handle things at home right now. I'm dying to get out, go somewhere. Then he asked me if I wanted to go out, when I said where, he just said 'out'' to enjoy the nice weather. My comment back was that I had asked my sister to go for a walk, but hadn't heard back yet. I know he wants us to keep talking, however I just don't think we should be talking to each other about things right now. I don't like saying things that hurt him, and I don't want him trying to make me see all the 'good' things. I don't want to give him hope, when I'm not yet sure if there is any.

I'm tired of being the one to get up and go out. I wish he would. Go do something with his son, take the dog out. It's always me leaving. Maybe that's a sign.

Yes, Zues, he does neglect himself. He knows it, yet still can't seem to do anything about it.

I was trying to ask him about trying some alternative therapy, when he questioned it, I finally sat back and said, I have to remember that I can't help you, YOU have to help you. Pretty sure he didn't like that.

[sandi2]

As wives and mothers, it is not that difficult for us to take on the responsibility for the entire family's happiness. We want everyone to be happy, even if that requires sacrificing our own happiness, our own mental & physical well being, and our dreams. When we have a H who won't take care of himself, we often take on the responsibility. We actually do the same things for him that we do for our kids. The end result is we mother the man, and that is not a good thing.

I have gotten so frustrated waiting on my H do........anything. Just show me some life! I even have to wait for him to get a sentence out of his mouth. He says, "ah" to signal he is eventually going form a simple sentence. Then he clears his throat, and thinks a little longer, and then slowly gets it out. I mean, I could have gone to get groceries by the time he gets it said! I have to find humor wherever I can. My H and I are very different, and I hope I've learned that getting angry does not change him over to my ways.

As a parent of a rebellious and wayward young adult, I had to learn to step back and allow the consequences to hit. Sure, I wanted to protect her and give thought my advice should influence her, but she would not listen. The most painful part of parenthood, for me, was to let go of trying to control/protect/sheild. I had to allow her to attend the school of hard knocks. I stopped being responsible for her actions, and the results of her actions. I stopped giving my opunless, unless they asked.....but funny thing, she never asked.

A few years ago, my H was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I told him I could help with things like preparing diabetic meals, if he would stay on the diet, of he would make the effort to do his part. (Not dieting is why it was not controlled and advanced). Problay was not the right approach, but I had about had it with his lack of responsibility. I told him je had to ultimately be responsible for his own disease. Well, he would not take responsibility, so it advanced to insulin dependency. Well, I have never given him one shot. ( I am experienced in giving diabetic shots, so I would if needed). I told him he had to learn how to give his own shots and be responsible for his disease. Sounds pretty cold hearted, doesn't it? There are times, and there are some people, where tough love is the only thing that gets them moving in the right direction.

Here's the thing, I knew if I ever started administering his insulin, he would depend on me to the point I would be completely responsible for his health. I refused. I would not even call for his prescriptions. I had gone through all of those nightmarish years with our D's health, plus I had my own health issues to keep my plate full. So, I told him in no uncertain terms that I would not be his mother. He is an adult and and capable of taking care of himself. Basically, it was like pushing a birdie from his nest. And, yeah.......it was tough. However, he leaned, and He is still alive,.......and giving his own shots. He makes decisions what to eat and when he eats a candybar, I don't say a word, b/c he knows he shouldn't eat it. Keeping my mouth shut is one of the hardest thing I've ever nad to do.

Sorry, didn't mean to make this so long. I just wanted to tell you, so you would know that I recognize some the feelings, and I know how hard it is to resign from the job of taking care of everyone, and for their happiness.

I see something in things you say, and if you did not have the ages of the children listed, I would assume they were all minors. However, I see you only have one under the age of 18. So do all of them still live with you, except for one? For some mothers, that would be heaven, b/c their entire life is based on being a mother. Honestly, my H and I enjoyed the time we had after the kids were grown and left home.

I think your own happines was put on hold too long. You feeling responsible.....and guilt, played a major part of you ending what may have been your only shot at a happy life. When you, once agained, sacrificed your personal needs, the resentment kicked up into even a higher level. B/c now you see that your H is not going to step up to the plate and do what a man is sippose to do! It's unfair for your H to just bow out and leave everything in your hands. I mean, you had the perfect opportunity to that to him, but you put family over yoirself. Although this behavior of his is nothing new, you don't know what to do to cause him to change. You continue to do the only thing you know how. You try to change him by telling him what he needs to do.

I could replace my name for every time I said "you" in the above paragraph, and you would see me in my own stitch several years ago. I may not be able to tell you one thing that will succeed in developing the MR you want, but I may be able to tell you a few things not to do. The first thing I can tell you that will not work is using "talk" to fix what's broken. Action is the key. It is the only thing that stands a chance of getting a response or change in your H.

I believe you need to convey your concerns to the adult children, about his depression and what he has said about not wanting to live. You are trying to shield or protect them. Those 18 and over should know the truth. Let them know what is going on and how serious this has become. Do not worry about what they could think about you or their dad. That part is out of your control. Your responsibility is telling the family and allowing them to help.

I always believed my H would listen to anyone (especially family) before listening to me. Our adult children can have influence.

[Vanilla]

Dani

Somewhere along the line Dani lost the sense of herself.

She has described that she subsumed herself in every other member of the household. The way I see it is that imagine Dani is the vegetable garden, which provides the fresh and beautiful food that is needed for the family meals. Unless that garden is watered, fertilised, weeded and the vegetables tended then the crop gradually reduced. The potatoes seed, the cabbages are eaten by pest, the peas get chocked. The owner needs to tend.

Or think of a photocopier without paper or ink it won't print, eventually it needs a service. The car needs oiil, petrol, tyres but then needs a mechanic.

Dani was looking for the gardener, the service engineer or the mechanic. She was asking H to provide that function, when he did not she looked for an alternate.

Dani we need to be our own Gardner, service engineer or mechanic. The wrong fertiliser, spare part or replacement engine part will cause malfunction.

This is resolvable, there is repair, there is help, there is only asking, this is a 180, allowing yourself to be recipient of help rather than the giver of it. To manage the team to repair. Move forwards with hope because there is hope and joy.

I can see that you have much love to give and that you have given so much. Love is a channel a multiway process and today it can flow both ways.

Be brave Dani, ask for the support that will relieve your personal burden.

Sandi has a great deal of beautiful straightforward advice for you to apply and I recommend that the guidance is applied.

Strength today

V

[sandi2]

How are you doing, Dani?