Mozza (11) + Links to success stories and more

[Barry]

Hey Mozza,

You're very welcome to my comments and I'm glad you've made what I also feel is the right decision about the watch.

I don't have any advice regarding dating for you I'm afraid, in fact if you could stop by my thread at some point, you'll see that I'm going through a similar conundrum at the moment. I personally agree with all of your points above as to why you feel you're free to date. As you know, our sitch's have a big difference in the OM arena, but in your case I think you have more reason to go for it.

Obviously dating may have a negative impact on the chances of R with our WW's, but we must remember that we're predominantly saving ourselves first by DBing.

Do what you feel is right for Mozza.

[Cadet]

Obviously dating may have a negative impact on the chances of R with our WW's, but we must remember that we're predominantly saving ourselves first by DBing.

Here is the thing, does dating save us?
If we are not whole and healed?

Again I am not against dating, however
it is not going to SAVE us but just continue the cycle that we have already entered.

I repeat - if you want to date, end your marriage.
Grieve it, fix ourselves, become who we are suppose to be.
Then start a new life with a new relationship.

[Barry]

Hey Cadet,

I didn't mean it that way as such. It's DBing that saves us, not dating per se. Since I've been posting here and since my sitch started, I'm a firm believer that whatever helps ME...helps. I think if Mozza is being open and honest, not only with his date(s) but with himself as to how he feels about it, and he finds that it helps HIM, then why not.

All of his points as to why he feels he's ready to do so seem valid to me, but obviously I'm no expert on any of this.
As far as "If you don't divorce first then you're no better than your spouse" - I dissagree with that.

Mozza's WW was not only legally but emotionally in a married relationship but felt the need to look elsewhere for whatever reasons she felt justified it to her. I'm not suggesting that it need be a "tit for tat" situation at all. Mozza is currently married to WW in a legal sense only, she's checked out of the M...in with the OM, and D seems likely at this stage (sorry Mozza).

As he said, why should he take a vow of celibacy (or even a vow against dating) whilst she is having a sex fest? The vows they both said to each other became null and void in a very real sense when she started an affair.

I don't mean that your comments are wrong or anything, just that they maybe only apply in a eutopian world. If dating people was only ever reserved for singles, I'm sure sales of DB/DR would go down considerably, and this forum wouldn't have so many members.

Just my $.02 worth.

Barry

[labug]

I agree with, Cadet. If you're ready for another R, get out of the one you're in and maybe be by yourself to heal and rebuild for awhile.

Rebound R are called that for a reason. We try to use others to make us feel better instead of taking responsibility for ourselves.

Not unlike what a spouse in an affair does.

If you need another person to make you feel OK, you're not done yet.

If you do decide to date be honest with the person you date from the outset, I'm married, I still want to be married to my W, I still love my W. Don't be a user.

[jim0987]

Hi mozza,

You may already suspect this but I agree with you on the dating front. My view is slightly different and nuanced but fundamentally I agree.

There is a big but though and this is where I agree with cadet and I kind of eluded to it previously. If you are not ready to be divorced, to sign the papers (legal technicalities aside), and to truly accept that you may not reconcile with your wife then you are on shaky ground with wanting to date.

Ideally you should get divorced first

But note for me, even this isn't the sane as closing the door completely.

Having said all that I think its really good that you are prepared to discuss and try and analyse your thoughts on this stuff.

[Wonka]

Mozza,

This alone should raise red flags in you. Your motivations are not sincere, but more of wanting to get what you need because you're looking in the direction of someone else (W) and being jealous and resentful of her choices. It is not coming from a place of wholeness and healthy state of mind.

I need it to R. This is even more controversial. I can't see myself waiting in chastity while my W is having a sex festival with her new BF. I'd feel too much resentment taking her back in the marital bed like this.

Believe me, I was at that place several years ago in the early 2 years of Ms. Wonka leaving me. I knew that I was not in a place to readily date other women because I was not in a healthy state of mind nor emotionally mature to date again.

Over time, I had arrived at a place where I wanted to date because I had something to offer instead of being in competition with someone or other people. The best part? I had no messy connections with an ex.

[Zelda09]

Hey Mozza,

I get what you mean. I am also excited about thinking about dating again (but nowhere near ready).

I have some thoughts about the whole/healed thing Cadet brings up. Yes - no point in replaying the R you just got out of until you're in a better place to not make the same mistakes. You know what your changes are. It is hard to be in a functional happy relationship if you're not happy and healthy yourself. Maybe you feel you are mostly there, and if so, congrats.

Just look carefully. I sense that you process very much through your head, as I do. Some people are good at letting their gut and it's myriad feelings roll around and processing feelings without having to make sense of them - that's not you, is it? I think maybe you know the 'right' healthy thoughts you wish for yourself, and you will rationalize or work backwards as much as you can to arrive there, all the while denying the feelings you are actually having, forcing them to conform to what you want to do or think should be done.

But, I also feel that our spouses had some blame to shoulder, too. And it is a validation of sorts to think of loving and being appreciated and loved by another person. Without reaching for perfection in ourselves first, just excellence and promise to keep developing to the best of our ability.

Like an affirmation of life goes on and STBX wasn't the only person that we can enjoy this short life with.

I don't believe in people being 'wrong' for each other or incompatible - some pairings are easier than others but after initial attraction, it always comes down to work to stay in love and communicate, doesn't it?

D before dating is the high road you can take. I think you'd be happier looking back, also. If you are sincerely looking for a new partner, it is much more confidence inspiring to know a man is legit D, and not just on his way...despite whatever his W did.

Offered with kindness.

[raliced]

Mozza- I read your post last night and thought "Mozza is going to have a busy thread tomorrow" Before I inflict my opinion on you, I should say I don't think I've ever caught your country of origin, but you've stated multiple times that English is not your first language, so I've always assumed you are not American by birth. And I only mention that, because sometimes a situation comes up in your thread that makes me think there are cultural mores at play. So in the interest of full disclosure, I am American and am a product of its Puritan heritage, and have absorbed a lot of those values and attitudes about sex and marriage (and was also a history major - so I have thought a lot about this stuff)- which is going to color my opinion about a lot of things.

So let's take a look at your arguments..

My M contract was between me and my W. She has ended it unilaterally and unequivocally.

I do not share your view about marriage being essentially a contract that is now broken - but I get that you see it differently and can agree that it is a perfectly valid way to look at it. So, that being said, remind me why you haven't taken steps to formally and legally dissolve this now meaningless contract?

My W has no ground to be offended at my dating. I don't do it to get a reaction from her. I'd prefer that she doesn't know, just like I don't tell her anything about my life, but if she ends up knowing, there's nothing to hide.

Well- I get what you are saying here, I do. And this may come back to having a different view of marriage, but personally I do think that ethically as long as you are legally married, you should actually inform her that those are your intentions ahead of time. And I realize she did not extend that courtesy to you- but I'm sure you want to be above that behavior, no?

I intend to be clear that I'm not marriage material right now.

and

I'm willing to take the risk to meet someone serious.

Don't you think those two statements contradict each other a little bit?

Now I'm going to bore you with some personal backstory because I have sort of been on both sides of this particular coin. When I was in my 20s, I lived with a boyfriend for about a year and then broke it off with him (for excellent reasons). I promptly got into a rebound relationship and then the X-BF came back begging that he had changed. I am ashamed to admit that for the better part of a year, I was hopelessly torn between them. A lot of people told me how lucky I was to have two hot guys chasing after me. It. was. awful. It always makes me a little mad now to see the romanticized version of love triangles on TV, because they are in fact, miserable. Take my word for it. You may think you would never end up in that position - but as long as you have feelings for your wife but are potentially willing to have feelings for someone else, you are playing with fire.

A few years later, I dated a nice guy who had been divorced for about 2 years. He seemed normal, nice, and by his account, completely available. Things went well for about 2 months, feelings were growing, and then one night, he broke down and sobbed about how much he still cared for his ex-wife. I know you are saying you would be upfront about things, Mozza, but you can't control how emotions will grow, and let me tell you, this is a lousy thing to do to another human being. It felt......icky. So, if you go down this path, be very careful, ok?

And the final three....

I'm really excited about it.
This is a growth opportunity.
I need it to R.

I agree with what Labug responded.

Rebound R are called that for a reason. We try to use others to make us feel better instead of taking responsibility for ourselves.

Not unlike what a spouse in an affair does.

If you need another person to make you feel OK, you're not done yet.

If you do decide to date be honest with the person you date from the outset, I'm married, I still want to be married to my W, I still love my W. Don't be a user.

And I would add- if you are upfront with someone about these things - what sort of person do you think you will attract?

Mozza - do what you will, as you say, your sitch is specific to you. I wish you good luck if you do decide to date right now (I'm afraid you will need it).

Regards,

Raliced

[Heart14]

Interesting conversation going on your thread, Mozza.

I need it to R. This is even more controversial. I can't see myself waiting in chastity while my W is having a sex festival with her new BF. I'd feel too much resentment taking her back in the marital bed like this. If I feel that this has been a time of exploration for both of us, then it might be less painful, less difficult to get back together.

This one is the hardest for me to understand. What is your reasoning for not pursuing a D first? I don't actually think this is your intent, but your justification comes off as score keeping to me. Essentially: if she's out sowing her oats, why shouldn't I do that too? Then if she comes back we are even.

If you are truly ready to move on and date, you should. Just make sure it's for the right reasons. If it's just a distraction while you wait for W to wake up, there could be unnecessary collateral damage or drama along the way. I say that because even though you're up front about not wanting something serious, your potential partner might hear that but not think its true.

[Mozza]

Thanks all. A quick note, before I come back later with a full response.

There's one argument that several people bring up and that I didn't quite address: I'm not ready, I need to heal, I need to be whole again, etc. before dating otherwise I will hurt myself or someone, it won't work, etc. I understand why it makes intuitive sense, but research does not support this. I can't link to it right now, but search for an article called "11 lies we need to stop telling about breakups" for the source.

Lie #3: Rebound relationships and sex don't work
Actually, they do. In many cases, experts recommend using rebounds — short flings or even longer-term relationships — as a healthy way to assess yourself and what you're looking for in a new partner. A 2006 study from Princeton University found that people who enter new relationships immediately after a divorce don't have a higher future divorce rate than those who took their time getting back in the saddle.

I do have an example of this in my life. My friend separated from his wife of seven years - they have two kids - and two months later entered into a new R. They are still together eight years later and their R is so strong and healthy that I believe they played a part in setting high expectations for my W. We met them 10 days before BD and my W asked the woman many questions about how they deal with disagreement, which is much better than us. They are the godparents of D3; that's how much I respect them and bet on the stability of their R.