I think you need Intel, how can you make any decision until you know if there is an A or not?
If this were me then it would be huge red flag time, in fact huge red velvet curtain time. All the action back stage, rather than front of house. Sounds like acting the part. Brian Rix farce time.
The journaling sounds like WW is trying to box you in, know your feelings, movements etc. I am not in piecing and have no experience but my spider sense says danger on this.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Aside from me going full on psychopath and following her around or hiring a PI, I have no intel. I don't think I want to live that way.
What "way?" Knowing the truth, so that you can act accordingly? How are her current clouds of deceit serving you?
For the LIFE of me I don't understand why so many on these forums want to be WILLFULLY in the dark. You're flying the jumbo jet of your marriage and family through storms and rains, and you're ignorantly turning off your instruments.
I have no reluctance about finding out the truth - it is what I wanted all along. I am not saying that the intel would not serve me well. I feel like I am at my wit's end with being suspicious - it is not a character trait that I think is positive for me.
I do not want to live in a life of being suspicious about every move she makes. It is not fair to either of us - I have driven myself crazy with this and want to be a normal happy person again.
The best I can do right now as far as intel (that I can think of) is reach out to a common "friend" of ours and ask her if W is still lying to me. Friend may or may not answer me (she's a closer friend of my W that of me - her confidant, she knows everything.) I don't think friend would lie to me - as she's given me advice to prepare myself and do what's best for myself and kids before - meaning end this madness with W - W is gone. I think she will give me positive news about W or refuse to answer my question (which will give me an answer (but no physical proof)). I do feel this friend has let us down throughout this - she has not been a good advocate for our marriage (though that is not her responsibility).
I guess my statement of not wanting to live this way is a statement of - I'm not sure that I want to be married to her any more.
Me-45 W-44 S21, S18, D15 T-27, M-21 BD Jan 2014 PA revealed March 2014 In-house separation - April 2015 I filed - Aug 2015 She moved out Oct 2015
Don't ask the friend. She's likely not going to be truthful with you, and it'd only get back to your wife anyway.
To me, the UNKNOWN is always worse than the KNOWN. I didn't want to live in "suspicion" either, which is why I chose only to deal with hard facts and data points. Yes, it was hard, but it prevented me from making all sorts of strategic and tactical mistakes, and even emotionally it helped me detach (trust me, the "loving" part of "loving detachment" was much more difficult than the "detachment" part with some of the intel I saw and heard about what she was doing!).
On snooping “makes you nuts” – I say just the opposite! :
You know, it's funny, but every time I get into one of our frequent "Snooping is bad!" debates around here (I am very pro-intel, as you all know), one of the arguments that the anti-snooping crowd always give is, basically, "It'll make you nuts!"
I contend just the opposite. Us humans are wired to fear -- to "go nuts" -- over the UNKNOWN, not the KNOWN.
Yep, Starsky, if the WAW is gaslighting you then snooping is ok. But if the A is out in the open, then clearly snooping will lead nowhere but to more hurt...
I would contend that it can continue to protect you from financial and legal threats. If a betrayed spouse can't handle the raw intel themselves, then I usually suggest that they enlist the help of a trusted third party, to review the intel daily and give them only an "executive summary"-type report say once a month. That third party can notify them immediately if there are any imminent threats.
Intel is the info I need to determine my actions, make myself secure. A little like doing a credit check on a future business partner or checking that I am investing in the correct assets. Looking into whether an L is qualified, a builder genuine etc.
I keep evidence, that which I need to have to know my exact sitch. Call logs, credit cards, texts, emails etc. not hear say or friends of friends. Recordings and photos I include too.
Snooping, prying and stalking is different. That is control and if you snoop you get poop. Mainly because the one being checked on alters their behaviour to suit. If they know that you check then what you get is not Intel but edited.
Once you know the position, it's an EA or a PA with X type person, then Intel is needed to know how long it has been going on and what type of person X is. Are there others. Is this a serial sitch, is joint cash being used etc. in some cases it is in the open and easy to know. In others secretive and wriggling to hide it. Let the wayward lie their way out of Intel.
So in my book there is Intel to know for certain and psych stuff which is crazy loco and very unhelpful. That W met X on 2nd of dec in 'hotel scuzzy' and has exchanged 25 texts and 200 messages since. Used the joint credit card for paying for 5 meals. Meets every 10 o'clock on second thursday of every month with a bunch of daffodils. X is the boss married 3 times and has two other As. That is Intel. Whatever is needed to confirm establish and protect is fine in my book. I am with Starsky on this one.
Often Intel is in plain sight, a quick check on a phone to establish a number and yes, if a PI is needed go do it.
Our lovely Pink tracked her H to his hotel lair, followed him and made sure he knew she was there. V traced H to a pub where POW was in residence with her H and boldly introduced herself. She also contacted and met with another POW. In all cases the wayward knows and there is no further hiding, the gig is up. Once the gig is up then accept no lies "we both know that is untrue". Confirm, confidential and then consult L. No point in having good Intel and not acting on it. OD found cards and letters in the MBR, Joe overhears telephone calls.
To my mind that X calls the wayward "snookums honeypot" and that X cuts toe nails in the bath and eats chocolate fudge sundaes as foreplay in pink ladies knickers whilst singing Ave Maria is snooping, if it is confirmed five times. Putting a tracker device in a car and remote cameras and checking every ten minutes is shivery 'sleeping with the enemy' especially if it goes on for years.
The purpose of Intel is action in my book, it is for the protection of self.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 04/01/1503:56 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
