Alpha - the future is now!

[alpha99]

Hi Luis and Toots,

Thanks for your comments, amendments and suggestions.

I think a good sign that the changes I am making are for me alone is that I am continuing with them even when I know my W will not see the benefit of them; that is I continue to use deodorant or whatever it is even on days when I am not going to see her.

I was deliberating whether to write some control or zero control Toots, I chose the latter as a way of reminding myself that ultimately it is her choice whether to come back or not. I do have some control as you say in that way that I can control how I behave and respond to everything that is going on.

A big 'un for me is undoubtedly managing my emotions. I have been dismissive of emotions in the past (both my own and others) but this whole thing has opened up something deep in me. These days I don't feel thick skinned as I used to. I think that is a good thing. Being dismissive of others' emotions was clearly not a good thing. Now I am trying to take my feelings and those of other people into far more consideration. Part of 'lashing out' verbally in the past was that if someone had said something similar to me, I wouldn't care. Clearly my W is not me and this kind of thing hurt her considerably, as she seems to relish telling me at the moment. I don't blame her there - only myself for not having seen that sooner.

[Starsky309]

* I want to save my marriage.
* I have some control zero control over that.
*I have zero control over my W, but 100% control of me
* There are things I can do to make myself better that may impact upon my sitch but they need to be done FOR ME.
* I must do what is right for my children.
* I must APPLY what I theoretically understand, and learn to manage my emotions.
* If all efforts to save my marriage fail, ultimately life will go on and I will always be there for my children.
* I really do WANT to save my marriage - but recognise I will actually be okay either way.

Perfect.


Starsky

[alpha99]

Had a good time with the kids...spoilt by my wife.

Right from picking them up from school she was complaining. She didn't want to go bowling but didn't want me to go alone with the kids. The kids cried for her to come. She complained she didn't feel well but after ultimately coming along never mentioned the illness again.

I validated my heart out. She moaned and complained endlessly how hard it is for her, how she has spent so much money on the kids, how I should pay child maintenance despite her already getting child benefits. At this point I once or twice slipped into debating with her but each time I caught myself and stopped immediately. W wouldn't even come and stay in the same lane as I played bowling with the kids. She pulled faces, huffed and puffed at me throughout. This might sounded one sided and far fetched but you would really have to be there.

She wandered around alone about the arcade section.

When we were done we all played a few arcade games. She hardly interacted at all.
I mentioned seeing the children more and have them stay with me. She referred to the parenting plan email I sent by saying she doesn't have to deal with my demands. She continually referred to me as unstable as if I was some weirdo. I asked whenever have I ever hurt our children or put them in danger. Of course she said 'never' but is worried I wouldn't return the kids or that I'd keep them and try and take revenge on her in some way. She seems to have the need to run decisions past her parents, saying she'll have to speak to them before gives any answers.

OK, let's break out the crazy:

She took our living room TV with her when she took possessions a week or two ago. Remember the crazy conversation over that?

Well, apparently it has blown up. She accused me of putting water in the TV to cause it to blow up. Yes, seriously, she accused me of trying to electrocute her.
This is what we've come to.

So, if she unleashes 5-10 minutes of non stop venom at me, the whole world being my fault etc, and I say one thing to defend myself then all of a sudden I'm being 'nasty' and showing 'my true colours.

She can be quite cogent at times but at others it's like she's away with the fairies. I mentioned she owes me money. She initially said she wasnt going to pay it. Then she said she'd only pay for certain things. She said she has her own place now and can't pay bills for two houses. I pointed out since the mortgage is in her name she is oblidged to. Finally she relented.

Almost inevitably, given her mood swings, towards the end of the gathering things turned to our R. She acknowledged she handled things badly by having an affair. She said she felt no guilt or remorse. When I wouldn't accept I had driven her to have an A she disagreed vehemently...then said she shouldn't have gone about it that way...but said we weren't together...despite us being married and sleeping in the same bed, having children, and her giving oral sex.

At the end of the trip out I pointed out (mistakenly) how people overcome As, how feelings change over time, so on and so forth. I mixed this up by saying the sooner things were settled the better. She said what you mean. I stupidly said sooner I don't have to deal with you and we get D. This was the one main thing I regret from the evening. I retracted it a moment later, said I didn't want divorce. She wasn't interested. She said she'd made the right decision and couldn't get back together just because of our history and our kids. She said she couldnt imagine why I'd want to be with her after her having an affair. I said you know how I feel. I didn't say I love you at all.

I kept everything in check until the final few minutes. I didnt plead or beg etc but I did cry. Stupid I know. I said that however long it took, I hoped one day we could work things out. To sum her response up, she basically said she had no feelings for me, I'd destroyed them through my treatment of her, and she couldnt say 'one day' because it wouldn't be fair to give false hope.

The hardest part was the children were playing in her back garden, they wouldn't do as they were told by her - to go in the house - her phone was ringing, and she was shooing me out the back door like I was some unwanted dog. She literally had closed the door over to the last 30cms and said I have to go, I have to go. I said this is what we've come to after 10 years? I knocked the door with my hand as I said this, a light tap, in no way aggressive. She seized on this and said I was damaging the door and scaring her. Ridiculous.

I said I'd leave because she said the front door to the house was unlocked. I went to the front door just to say we shouldnt part like this. I can see how this seemed like pressuring or pursuing but I didn't want to leave on bad terms. We spoke briefly, said she had to go, and once again shut the door on me as she told me 'this is my house and I don't want you here'. I said fine, but we need to sort out when I can have the kids asap as this isn't fair. She said we would, she'd call me later, and confirmed that I'd get the kids tomorrow.

I left and cried alone for a moment or two. A few moments later I perked up quite a bit. I am learning to deal with this without becoming hysterical.

It is easier to deal with all this as the likelihood of things never working out increases. If I get to see my children on a regular basis I will be a happy man indeed. It is hard to have hope at a time like this but I do believe time can change perspectives. Unfortunately, with the MIL fueling the WAW syndrome the chances of reconciliation at this point seem to be zero.

My sadness comes from the apparent death of our R, and the fact that regardless of what my W says (kids won't ever be affected, will want for nothing) our children over time will feel this deeply. I will do whatever I can to make this as normal as possible for them but inevitably they will feel a hole in their upbringing. That is the thing I can't shake off as I am in part responsible for.something I would never want.

From this point on I plan to live 'as if' things are heading towards D, even if I will continue DBing to prevent that. This is for my own wellbeing. If I do truly detach alongside having regular time with the children each week, who knows what will happen. I don't see attempting dating etc for a long, long time...even post D should that happen, as I will maintain hope until circumstances no longer provide any.

[Starsky309]

Wow. Just . . . wow.

[Sotto]

"At the end of the trip out I pointed out (mistakenly) how people overcome As, how feelings change over time, so on and so forth. I mixed this up by saying the sooner things were settled the better. She said what you mean. I stupidly said sooner I don't have to deal with you and we get D. This was the one main thing I regret from the evening. I retracted it a moment later, said I didn't want divorce."

"I kept everything in check until the final few minutes. I didnt plead or beg etc but I did cry. Stupid I know. I said that however long it took, I hoped one day we could work things out. To sum her response up, she basically said she had no feelings for me, I'd destroyed them through my treatment of her, and she couldnt say 'one day' because it wouldn't be fair to give false hope"

Sorry it was a difficult evening Alpha. So the two examples above are where you backslid. Areas like these are to be avoided at all costs. If you find yourself straying towards R talk, or being drawn into R talk, just don't go there. Your W isn't in a receptive place at all right now and will just give you no hope.

This is the important thing about managing your emotions, so you don't make these mistakes again my friend. So, you acknowledge you need to keep yourself in check - and sounds like you mostly did. But recognise the danger points. Maybe when you are about to part and so on - and handle those differently.

Hope you have a good weekend :-)

[alpha99]

I'm intrigued Starksy...are you in disbelief at me, my wife, or both of us?

I believe I handled things really well for the vast majority of the time this evening. I let myself down slightly at the end. We all have our own unique elements to each sitch but I do see my W as special with regard to just how off the scale her logic, decision making, and all round sense of reality can be at the moment.

[Starsky309]

Mostly your wife (I mean, she just doesn't sound . . . well), but the two of your interactions with each other are frequently toxic. As Toots wisely advises (and we've all been over this repeatedly), you've GOT to avoid these at all costs.

How much of this did the kids overhear/see?


Starsky

[alpha99]

Thanks Toots,

You're spot on. As you know I've struggled to avoid R talks or keep emotions in check at times. I did a lot better this time but still backslid at those moments you pointed out.

I think my next coaching session is in order.

If I'm looking for some glimmer of hope, I believe once W fully settles in to her house, combined with fair childming arrangements, her current 'craziness' may begin to subside and then we can more regular, cordial interactions, and maybe at that point make.some progress. I'm not holding my breath though.

[alpha99]

My W wouldn't stop talking in the car whilst kids were there. She swore at me at one point. I asked her not to in front of kids. I only validated what she said in front of kids. At McDonald's after bowling she, for the first time, and knowing her probably absent mindedly, began to talk about A in front of kids. Back at her house the kids didn't see anything - they were either playing in the big garden or had gone into the house.

I'm acutely aware of how this might affect them. W claims she has their best interests at heart but repeatedly ignores them, shouts at them unfairly etc.

Haha I recounted pretty much my long post verbally to my father earlier...he said the same thing - 'wow, what's up with her? She's gone off her rocker...or words to that effect. It isn't half disheartening when she not only has lost her love for me but seemingly her mind too.

[Sotto]

That's good. But you need to recognise that the backslides can pretty much 'undo' other positive progress that you may be making. This is why we are focusing on the emotional control so much right now.

Above all else, seek to achieve pleasant neighbourly interactions with your W without the emotional backsliding. Maybe this is a goal for your next meet up - get that consistent approach throughout the meet up. Not for most of if and then you crash.

If you find yourself about to say something, clap your hand over your mouth if needs be. Or jump up and say - I just remembered something! And go make a phone call or something. Whatever strategies will work to stop you from doing this. And when you feel it coming on, switch to intellect/business and use your strategy.

In terms of how W might be once she settles - who knows? But if you can be steady in the face of her behaviour, that is a triumph in itself. So, maybe don't hope that she will change, hope that you will manage to change yourself...