WAS asked for divorce today.

[aNewGuy]

Hello to everyone on this board and a big "Thank you" for all of the wonderful, inspirational and highly educational stories I have been reading here. I appreciate
you all before even writing my first post.

So I am in a pickle as follows:

My wife, 26 and I, 39 have no children at all and have been married five years. Hold the cradle robbing jokes, we have had a wonderful, loving marriage filled with laughter and just a whole bunch of all the good things I've always hoped I would find in my life. This changed in my eyes during the last year and a half, when we had much loss in our lives (miscarriage, death of an ex for each of us, and the death of a grandparent)

About seven months ago, she started spending time with some friends from back before we knew one another and I supported her in this because it seemed to be bringing her some much needed joy at that time in her life.

And then one night seemingly out of the blue she told me, in tears, that she needed to talk about "us" and announced she wanted to separate. I reacted angrily to this announcement, saying basically that "If things are going to keep being like they have been being, then yes a separation is fine!"

Fast forward a month, she now has her own place and I still live in the house I brought to the marriage. We work together, and she prefers to communicate via text. She has actually told me that she is moving on and I should too, and that she loves me very much but is not in love with me. And that she cares about me very deeply but because we are not in love she doesn't think it's fair for either of us to stay together. And that she misses my friendship and hopes we can be friends again in the future.

Being blindsided by all of this, I immediately looked to the internet for all manner of resources and everything I could read on this subject, for I am relationship dumb. All of my research led to this site, to buying and reading DB and DR, and having so far two phone counseling sessions which have really helped me get some much needed perspective.

I have been GALing by getting a part time second job, working on my house (reorganizing, etc) and by spending time with friends and family both in person and on the phone. I have been participating in some of my hobbies which have been neglected.

Also, I have been trying to "be dark" and so far my biggest 180 has been to increase my online presence and to force myself to not withdraw when faced with tough questions. I have been applying myself at work with much more gusto than before.

So this weekend on the advice from well meaning friends, I responded to her offer of friendship with my acknowledgement that I also miss our friendship and would like to be friends as well. She responded that this made her happy, but the next day I received another message asking me directly if I thought being friends was a means to get her back and I truthfully responded that I do want her back.

Which leads to the next thing. She then told me she has been waiting patiently to ask me about a divorce because she knows I have been hurting over all of this, and told me she wants a divorce with the added message "why would we stay married if we aren't going to be together, and why would we be together if we aren't in love?"
These messages are coming in while trying to sleep and then while at work, today.

So I am in big trouble here because I love this woman and am clearly far more committed to this marriage than she is. This separation was devastating for me, and I am not certain the same holds true for her. I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of another man but in any event I think she is clearly happier than she has been in at least the last year and a half.

In some ways I am too, we were really "in a bad way" for especially the last six months.

Here is my plea for help. She wants to meet up in person this weekend to discuss a divorce that I do not want. We have already split up our finances and I have been cooperative and respectful at each step along the way. She believes divorce is the solution when I believe there are many better ways we could solve this and remain together, remain friends, and experience the best of what a good marriage has to offer. Our marriage has had the blessing and support of both of our families and friends along the way, many of whom expressed extreme shock that this was all happening. One friend even started crying when she found out.

Obviously there is way more to this. This is my first posting on such a site and I am hopeful that someone can share some tidbit that will help me turn this ship around, or at least plug the most gaping holes, before we meet up to discuss this unwanted D this weekend. I love my wife very much - she loves me too -and no matter the final outcome of all of this I want to know that I have given my 100% everything to avoid the big lie that is divorce will solve any of these problems! We really had it made in the shade before all of this happened.


Thanks for reading and thanks for being here. I am sure that this story has more questions than answers at this point, I had been hoping to think this through more thoroughly before posting! I will wait patiently to see what details I can fill in for anyone who asks.

[Cadet]

Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2380415&page=1

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2183063&fpart=1

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

[Starsky309]

NewGuy,

I hate to tell you, but this has nearly ALL the earmarks of an affair, and there is really nothing you can do while she has given her heart (if not more) to another. I can certainly assure you that you can't "nice" her into not wanting to divorce you.

All you can do is let her go (notice I didn't say "give up"), and live your own life while protecting yourself financially and legally. If this is what she wants, tell her that she will have to initiate it, but that you won't fight her.

Be thankful you don't have any kids . . . it does make it easier.

Find a way to get back in touch with the "aNewGuy" that perhaps got lost along the way in the last five years. Who is he? What are his interests, his passions? What are his non-negotiable core boundaries of personal integrity? What are his dreams, his aspirations?

If you're like most of us were when we got bombed, your first inclination is to respond with something like "well my 'dream' is to get my wife back," but I'm afraid that's not what I'm talking about. We have live our own life, with our own interests and passions as our "cake." Our spouses are only supposed to be our "frosting," and if you've (like I did) puffed your wife up into more than that, then you need to do some reading on co-dependency and "enmeshment."

I think you should prepare your heart for the eventuality that something physical happened with her and an OM the night she came to you with her "we need to talk about us" talk. Would this be a deal-breaker for you? it doesn't have to be (my wife and I found our way back to each other, for example), but you need to do some soul-searching now about what you will and won't abide in a marital relationship.

As Cadet has said, your wife has given you a gift of TIME . . . use it wisely.


Starsky

[Cherry]

Hi, welcome to the site. In a way my situation and yours are similar. We had a very passionate marriage. Never argued- h was always affectionate and obsessed with me. After a month of him being a tad distant he drops the d bomb.
I since found out he is having an affair too.
I haven't much advise as I'm not a vet and relatively new myself. All I can say is try and take care of you in every way. Find someone you can talk to/ vent too. I'd say it gets easier but I'm not at that point yet.

Wishing you luck

[aNewGuy]

Starsky309: Your reply I think hits the nail on the head in almost all aspects. You are confirming a lot of what I already very strongly suspect, that there is another man. I have a lot of forgiveness in my heart and won't say "never" to reconciliation even if things have crossed the physical boundary as well as the emotional one, even though I have been faithful myself I do consider it possible for her to come back and be forgiven if my conditions, still being formulated, are met.

Cherry: I'm working on taking care of me! Right now I'm focused on calming my nerves as the night the bomb was dropped the floodgates of stress hormones were opened and closing them back down is being quite a challenge.

Thanks for the welcome you guys!

[Starsky309]

Starsky309: Your reply I think hits the nail on the head in almost all aspects. You are confirming a lot of what I already very strongly suspect, that there is another man. I have a lot of forgiveness in my heart and won't say "never" to reconciliation even if things have crossed the physical boundary as well as the emotional one, even though I have been faithful myself I do consider it possible for her to come back and be forgiven if my conditions, still being formulated, are met.

Then if that's the case, my advice to you would be to proceed as if she is, and plan and act accordingly. There's little harm in that, while there could be a TON of strategic and tactical mistakes (not to mention, your HEARTBREAK) if it's the other way around.

False positives are always easier to deal with than false negatives.


Starsky

[aNewGuy]

My burning question #1 tonight for the community here: How might I tell the difference between a wife who walks away because we were too enmeshed, too codependent, too involved to EACH have very much autonomy; and a wayward wife who walks away because of these things PLUS the fact she has another man in her life?

No person amongst our group of friends has come out and said that she is having an affair but my gut tells me she probably is - or was and stopped - but still wants D.

For my next question, I am following some wisdom from Sandi2's thread, "For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife" at http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554. An eye-popping huge bundle of wisdom that Sandi2 has compiled seemingly just for me!

So here is my burning question #2 for the community: Should I continue to remain friends with her on social media? I am not one who spends nearly as much time and effort there as she does. When I do go online, I am not sure I need to see constant reminders of her current well being plastered all over the place nor do I want her to feel she has access to really any area of my personal life while she is asking me for a divorce. It's hard enough that we share so many mutual friends in real life!

Again, social media is highly important to her but is only a small part of my normal day.

I feel as though "Unfriending" her there will be the kind of move that takes some courage on my part and will be a clear sign for her that I am not going to just be friends with her there or in real life while she breaks up our marriage. Like me saying "Since you asked me for a D, I am taking away your all-access pass". It seems both a healthy and risky move for me to make with the amount of importance she places on social media.


Also to Cherry and Starsky309: could you guys maybe post in here the link to where I can read your stories? I would like the opportunity to read and respond to your threads, and haven't been successful in finding them thus far.

[aNewGuy]

I also agree Starsky309- "False positives are always easier to deal with than false negatives."

Maybe, possibly she is simply asking for this divorce to see if I support her in it, be passive in it, or be outright defensive of our marriage in it?

Might be a few days before I post, I feel I need to sit back and read some more and keep moving forward and let some more of this all soak in before I write too much more. We are to meet up Saturday )my decision) to discuss the divorce (her decision), and I have an appointment with my DB coach on Friday.

[Cadet]

Also to Cherry and Starsky309: could you guys maybe post in here the link to where I can read your stories? I would like the opportunity to read and respond to your threads, and haven't been successful in finding them thus far.

How to find a thread

Try clicking on their NAME
SHOW POSTS
Then at the top right it says TOPICS CREATED - click there

or to find your own thread

My Stuff
Posts
Then at the top right it says TOPICS CREATED - click there

[aNewGuy]

AWESOME, Cadet, thank you!

[aNewGuy]

Also thank you Cadet for the list of threads you posted as the first response to my thread. I'm finding the material here very helpful. Wanted to say "Thanks" before I move on and forget to say it!!

[Cadet]

I just looked at Starsky's topics - read the one called "Transparency"

the others are good too

but that will keep you busy for a while

[Cherry]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LcZ7D6YG3BY This is part 2 of mine, the link to part one is on that thread. I to, like you am sort of struggling to get a plan together. I'm working on detachment but having recently had his baby my head is all over the place!
I'm going to check the thread of sandi's your linked to. It sounds like it might help me. Good luck, again I don't have much advise- but it helps to support each other and its a healthy way to vent instead of shouting at the WAS.

[Cherry]

Baby brain!! That link is one I was sending a friend!!!! Ignore it!!!

[Cherry]

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...247#Post2551247

[Starsky309]

Also to Cherry and Starsky309: could you guys maybe post in here the link to where I can read your stories? I would like the opportunity to read and respond to your threads, and haven't been successful in finding them thus far.

Hope you have a lot of time, LOL -- I posted a LOT!

If you want the Reader's Digest version, go immediately to May - Aug 2007, as that's when my wife went wayward (NOTE: my posting name at that time was Chocolateeyes):


Choc's threads

[Starsky309]

My burning question #1 tonight for the community here: How might I tell the difference between a wife who walks away because we were too enmeshed, too codependent, too involved to EACH have very much autonomy; and a wayward wife who walks away because of these things PLUS the fact she has another man in her life?

Intel.


Starsky

[aNewGuy]

Intel requires snooping, right? I am far more capable of successfully snooping in this digital age than i care to admit online. I have found it best to not engage in it because for me, once I crack the seal on it I will not stop. That's a distraction in my life I don't need from GALing successfully - basically I just don't have the time to devote to it.

Even though I know you're right - that would be a highly effective way to get the answers I want - I also consider it disrespectful. Showing respect, or "Validating", is a 180 I need to do in this situation even though her wayward ways are an excellent example or her disrespecting me right now.

Maybe I will just ask her outright when we meet tomorrow to discuss this divorce she so suddenly wants.

Just got off the phone with my DB coach. She really has so quickly helped me fill in so many blanks in this area of my life, the best money I have ever spent.

I'll be sure to update this thread sometime this weekend with the results of my first face to face meeting with my wayward, walk away wife tomorrow outside of the workplace. This forum is proving a great place to "journal" and learn and reflect. I can't believe how far I have come since the bomb was dropped.

Far enough to realize I still have a long way to go...

I miss the true friendship of my wife, and cried today again for the first time in a week or so. This too shall pass. Time to keep on keepin' on!

[Starsky309]

Intel requires snooping, right? I am far more capable of successfully snooping in this digital age than i care to admit online. I have found it best to not engage in it because for me, once I crack the seal on it I will not stop. That's a distraction in my life I don't need from GALing successfully - basically I just don't have the time to devote to it.

There are easy ways to handle this. You can only check it, say, once a week, or twice a month. Or -- even better -- have a trusted third party monitor your intel for you and give you only an "executive summary" every week (or again, twice a month) and immediately only if there is an immediate threat to your finances, health or family.

For the life of me, I will never understand why people prefer to fly thru these difficult situations without instruments. Just makes no sense to me, but suit yourself. It's certainly not "disrespectful" to protect your family from a potential predator.


Starsky

[aNewGuy]

I appreciate the "fly without instruments" analogy. You make a very good point, my situation is perhaps a little less precarious than many others. Basically I have protected my finances and assets quite sufficiently already in this situation, and in my state the law will not take kindly for her to make a grab for anything more than I have already *very* generously given her upon our separation. According to what we each brought in to the marriage, and the law in our state, any judge in our district will laugh her out of the courtroom if she tries to take anything that's not hers!

Your advice is kindly received Sir, thank you - I will be mindful of this going forward!

[aNewGuy]

Your response will be a good way for me to gather Intel without becoming addicted to Intel gathering, to put it another way. Thanks again!

[aNewGuy]

And unfortunately if you mean the OM as being the predator, it is not something I can control at this time as much as I would love to stop the influence of other people in her life I simply do not have any control over that even if I know all there is to know about it. She seems happy with her decision.

[Starsky309]

So if she had, say, a gambling addiction and a loanshark kept coming around her trying to loan her money to get her to gamble some more, you would just passively allow it, saying "I have no control over her?"

I guess in my own sitch, I probably would have EVENTUALLY taken that tack. I mean, if after months or even a year my wife had seemed happy, and kept refusing to end her affair, at SOME point I would have just had to say "Well, if this is what you want, then so be it." But:

a) I would have long since removed myself from the situation; and

b) I would never do that (and didn't) without first FIGHTING for her, for some period of time (for me, it was hell-bent for 3 months). When she reconciled, she THANKED me for fighting for her.

Since affairs are highly addictive, I viewed my wife as sick, and the OM as a predator, and saw it within my role as her husband and the protector of our family to fight for her and fight to keep OM at bay as much as possible. Legally, financially, emotionally . . . everything at my disposal.

I guess we're just wired differently, you and I.

Starsky

[Starsky309]

Your response will be a good way for me to gather Intel without becoming addicted to Intel gathering, to put it another way. Thanks again!

You're welcome.

[aNewGuy]

Wow. I needed to hear that Starsky. Look I think in my situation I was blind to the reality of what was occurring for at least the past six months. I do not have much access to this other group of friends she has been around. I really believed this was just a phase that would blow over in our marriage until the very moment the bomb was dropped. I never imagined she would do what's occurring right now.

I don't even know where to begin the fight. All the wisdom I've gathered on the subject seems to point toward changing oneself.

And to go on the offensive now, isn't that perhaps too little too late?

It appears to me that in my situation I would practically be required to turn to social networking to fight this war.

It would be a huge 180 for me. I have avoided conflict like the plague for a long time.

And of course we are wired differently, that's why I am here because it's time to update the outdated electrical in this place...

[Starsky309]

And to go on the offensive now, isn't that perhaps too little too late?

Might be. What's your timeline again? Date of bomb drop? etc.? You should really put it in your autosignature -- it helps.

[Starsky309]

You could possibly create a sort of "System Restore point" for yourself and your wife if, say, you were to find out some new information (like existence of an OM, or something equally as significant) and then confront her on THAT.

In the mind of a wayward wife (and certainly, your wife is in a wayward mindset whether or not there is a current OM), the dynamics are quite a bit different if she is thinking "ANewGuy knows I'm having an affair (or "knows I've been lying to him"), and yet he still does ________ and says ________ and wants to _______" . . . vs. "Hmmmm, I wonder if he knows? Because if he does and he's still _______, ______ and _________, I think that's pretty weak -- he should be fighting for me! See, this is why I could never be married to him..." or "But if he DOESN'T know, that could explain his passivity."

See what I'm saying?

The dynamics are all very different when THEY know, and YOU know, and THEY KNOW THAT YOU KNOW . . . vs. when they think they've been successful in keeping you in the dark.

[aNewGuy]

I think that she thinks that I am in the dark. She should, at least, because I think that I am!

I have failed to realize the power of social media and the internet in all of this.

I will devote more time to a better response to your questions later, right now I am actually physically cleaning up and organizing in my house and I must keep on moving with that right now.


This thread has begun to put chills up my spine, thank you for your time and encouragement and wisdom. Answered prayers.

[Starsky309]

Happy to help, and I'll of course keep stopping by. But I'd encourage you to spend some time on Sandi's now-3-different, excellent LBH threads. So many pearls of wisdom in there about the wayward mindset, and how to deal with it (and how NOT to deal with it!)


Starsky

[aNewGuy]

Starsky,

I've been reading through a ton of the situations on this site. Jefe's sounds a lot like mine in many aspects.

I've been reading around here enough that I think I feel comfortable to start blogging. Anyone who wants to chime in, feel free. Here goes!

Some of this situation has caused me to wonder if I even want to try and save this marriage. Then I remember how very loving a marriage it's been for the first three years, and I love my wife just so very much!!

She filed for D on Wednesday. I agreed to meet her at lawyer's office. Should not have done that, just suffice it to say I had stupidly agreed to not fight her and somehow that led to me meeting her at her lawyers office. She is asking for nothing in the divorce as we split our assets already, so it was uneventful.

So the only parking spot available at lawyers office was right next to w. When we left, a conversation started. It was quite cordial. I eventually said I had to leave to get breakfast before work, she asked if she could join me. I said yes, we talked about no R stuff, just random odds and ends about current daily life.

It was nice.

So I had unfriended her new group of friends on FB and apparently they found out. I normally dont give any attention to FB but for some reason that action was on my spirit and so i took it. Today I get to work and w won't even look at me, which is unusual. Toward the end of the day she emails me and says the d papers are ready at the lawyers office. I replied simply I won't be going back there, she needs to have them served on me.

This angered her and when she asked why, I simply told her it was because it didn't feel right. She proceeded to give me one of my favorite snacks and then sent me a long raging text message. I replied to her text calmly and lovingly.

I'm just focused on being patient and kind, and my "spew jacket" has become much thicker.

I'm so thankful for this online group of people. My wife and I invited Christ into our marriage from the beginning but we both got selfish somewhere along the way.

Starsky and Jefe, if you see this I just want you to know both of your stories are inspirational. When your wife's came back saying that God was speaking to them loudly - seeing that alone helped me realize that He is very much aware of my situation as well. My bride and I both need your prayers. I'm older than her and really feel I just beat her down slowly with all of the "fixing" I tried to do and perfectionism i'd perfected. Wow if I had only known of all this information (db/Dr/this online community) the day we got married I could have seen how to really show her I love her. I wish I had been a far better husband. I need to become a better man even if she doesn't return.

[aNewGuy]

Every single friend and family member and aquainance who knows us was totally shocked when they found out about our separation.

[aNewGuy]

I'm in real need for prayer from anyone who reads this. Also my ww / waw is in need of prayer as well.

[Cadet]

I'm in real need for prayer from anyone who reads this. Also my ww / waw is in need of prayer as well.

Whats up?

[aNewGuy]

I would like you to pray specifically with me for God to protect my wife while I cannot, for Him to speak to her heart and mind, and to speak to my heart and mind as well. Pray for the right people and places and any other means He chooses to touch our lives with His message to help is both grow and learn what it is we need to learn through this. I pray for Him to give me the patience to wait for Him and the ability to let go of the outcome of this situation. I pray that He gives me the confidence I need to make whatever decisions I will need to make in the coming days and that He will teach me to not second guess myself or seek approval from those around me for the things I say and do.

I am seeing the principles of Michelle's teaching make some progress in my situation and I know my wife is also having a tough time with all of this.

I think I really hurt her a bunch along the way, mainly by trying to "show her the right way " to do things, stupid household things which I really don't care about at all and by constantly going down cheese less tunnels and by not realizing that it doesn't matter whether the chicken or the egg came first. By not taking responsibility and by always seeking validation from her and others I have sent, very slowly but very surely, my wife down a terrible road leading away from me and I there also pray for God to show and teach forgiveness and how to forgive to both of us.

I can't even begin to thank all of you for pouring out your hearts and sharing your experiences here on this site. It is a miracle this is even possible.

[aNewGuy]

And for reconciliation and restoration. She deserves the best parts of me and I of her. I'm enjoying my life and GAL is going well. I want to see my precious wife healed and happy again.

[25yearsmlc]

I would like you to pray specifically with me for God to protect my wife while I cannot, for Him to speak to her heart and mind, and to speak to my heart and mind as well. Pray for the right people and places and any other means He chooses to touch our lives with His message to help is both grow and learn what it is we need to learn through this. I pray for Him to give me the patience to wait for Him and the ability to let go of the outcome of this situation. I pray that He gives me the confidence I need to make whatever decisions I will need to make in the coming days and that He will teach me to not second guess myself or seek approval from those around me for the things I say and do.

I am seeing the principles of Michelle's teaching make some progress in my situation and I know my wife is also having a tough time with all of this.

I think I really hurt her a bunch along the way, mainly by trying to "show her the right way " to do things, stupid household things which I really don't care about at all and by constantly going down cheese less tunnels and by not realizing that it doesn't matter whether the chicken or the egg came first. By not taking responsibility and by always seeking validation from her and others I have sent, very slowly but very surely, my wife down a terrible road leading away from me and I there also pray for God to show and teach forgiveness and how to forgive to both of us.

I can't even begin to thank all of you for pouring out your hearts and sharing your experiences here on this site. It is a miracle this is even possible.

I see this^^ as a solid insightful post from a good man. Keep this^^ up.
I'm very sorry you are here, although this is a great place to be for a lousy reason.


For the record, I'm not a fan of snooping about OMs, unless you know it's a deal breaker (the opposite of your attitude in my opinion).

But til IF & WHEN this becomes an actual issue, I'll leave it at that.


Also, just so I know, did you and your wife decide against children or were you delaying them?

And what was happening in the marriage that made you say "fine, go ahead and separate"?

Keep on your path of growth and becoming the best YOU that you can become.
So no matter what happens, you'll be better off and yes, happier.


Just so you know, a divorce is a piece of paper declaring a marriage is legally over.

I've had 2 family members divorce, only to remarry their former spouses later.

So yes, it happens.

[aNewGuy]

25Yearsmic,

Wife and I were resenting one another - she wanted to spend her time online and ignore my requests for help with stuff around the house. It got pretty bad in the last six months to a year. Plus, she stopped having any interest in sex about two years ago, except on rare occasions. Caused a big circle of why should I do 'x' when you don't do 'y' and vice versa in my opinion.

We decided early on that we wanted to wait to have children.

[aNewGuy]

The rollercoaster is real. I feel as though I have PTSD - from the day she dropped the bomb that she wanted to move out, I have never experienced this much stress hormone flowing through my veins ever in my life. It's like the "fight or flight" response was turned on two months ago full blast and no relief no matter how involved I get in other projects / doings in my life. Not to say there aren't good moments - there are plenty.

I just can't believe how overwhelming the sadness can be. It comes out of nowhere with the momentum of a freight train, set off by a song on the radio or a memory in passing, when waking up from a dream in the middle of the night, or sometimes for no apparent reason at all.

And then I am back to GAL activities (I love the shooting sports, climbing, woodworking, home improvement projects, and entertaining in my home). I feel better and am getting stronger but boy the highs they are high and the lows they are low.

[aNewGuy]

I keep wondering if I should un-friend her on Facebook. I know that sounds a bit trivial, but to many 26 year olds it is significant. Because much as I do love her, she is wayward and is divorcing me. That's not very friendly. But the other side of the coin here, I wish to keep her as my wife and have her back, and taking that step is sort of opposite that, right?

[aNewGuy]

I guess what I'm getting at is that in my switch, everything I do seems to backfire. Nothing seems to be working. She is getting further and further away, at least it seems. It doesn't help that we work together and that she knows I don't want the divorce. I have made it clear that I don't want to go that way but she continues to move in that direction and two months now since separating, I feel hopeless in my own power to do anything to bring her home.

[aNewGuy]

And if that's not enough, a different woman from work just asked me to be her date tonight for a small concert here in town.

I would enjoy it I'm sure, but then my wife would have ammo for leaving me that she really didn't have before.

[Cadet]

Yes DB'ing is counter intuitive, and most of the time backwards logic works very well.

So maybe the problem is that she knows you dont want a divorce.

There are no guarantees here and nothing is going to work quickly.

[aNewGuy]

Wish all of this were easier to go through. I just wish my wife would get her head out of the clouds and come home!

[aNewGuy]

Right, Cadet. It is counterintuitive for sure. I'd liken it to "Fake it till you make it". Its hard to exude the needed confidence at all times when going through a breakup. I know there are no guarantees, but the laughter we had and the love we shared seems to me like one day she is going to miss that a whole lot. True love is hard to find.

[aNewGuy]

Not sure if that's the problem or not. I guess I just can't make myself lie and say I do want a divorce. I feel like its a situation of darned if I do and darned if I don't!

[RealMe]

Cadet is so right about the counter-intuitive nature of this. But you have to think where a lot of our natural reactions come from- the emotions we act on when we're 'hurt'.

They may be natural, but they are unproductive.

When we learn to control those reactions, or at least successfully fake that we have control over them the affect is amazing.

Keep your head up.

[aNewGuy]

Still considering being a date for that coworker tonight. I *had* other plans - was supposed to have a few friends over for a fire and then my firewood delivery got cancelled. So now no fire and no other plans.

There will be others around so why not? Of course, I know why not - I'm still a married man and two wrongs don't make a right!

[pilot]

aNewGuy...

Yea, you are definitely not ready to co-mingle with members of the opposite sex. Politely decline but jokingly suggest she keep you in mind for future events. No point in burning bridges right?

As for FB...dealers choice on that one. You are right, fb means a lot more to a 26 year old than it does to a 39 year old. I am 41 and my W is 31. So we share some similarities in the age/culture differences you and I. What I did when my S started is I blocked her from my FB. I was not a heavy fb user like she was, but I did post kid pictures and pictures when we went places. I occasionally kept up with old friends as well. I blocked her and never once looked at her page again. Its been almost a year. In fact, I actually deactivated my fb account in December. I dont miss it. I do not know what state you are in or what D laws are, but there could be an advantage to keeping access to her fb page if she is one to post party pictures, or drinking pictures, or even OM pictures. Just food for thought.

I get where you are coming from with the belief that one day she will miss the good times. And if you had a decent marriage most of the time, then yea, she most likely will. But it wont happen any time soon so that line of thinking is pointless. Spend your mental energy on improving you and GAL activities.

And Cadet is right, maybe she knows you do not want a divorce and feels secure in her actions. But be careful about using D as a tool because it can backfire on you, or force you to put the D into motion before it really has to.

Keep your chin up buddy. It gets easier with each passing day.

[25yearsmlc]

I keep wondering if I should un-friend her on Facebook. I know that sounds a bit trivial, but to many 26 year olds it is significant.

its both trivial AND significant and punitive. If your goal is a better relationship with her, unfriending her is NOT going to help.

Stop looking at FB if it bothers you. Don't give it so much power over your life. You're a grown man and no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to follow her posts and "likes". I thought you noting the difference in her age group ("to a 26 year old, it's significant") makes you sound as if you want to hurt her.

Regardless of why, I have to ask, to what end?

Why "announce" anything by un-friending her.? Sorry, but I see it as the act of a small man. (No offense, but you are better than that).

Because much as I do love her, she is wayward and is divorcing me.


And therefore, what? You can dismiss her, label her and ignore the marital issues you once admitted, or just punish her b/c after all, she 'attacked" you with a divorce? Remember, she was NOT happy and neither were you.

Don't get amnesia now. You know, come to think of it, I guess the biggest problem I have with snooping or exposing an affair or behaving this way (dismissive) is that it seems to always take the LBS off course.

Instead of working on theselve for real, and digging deep, they suddenly point at the OP

(even when there might not be one OR even when it's the mere dream/fantasy of an affair, which I do NOT believe is the same thing as an actual PA and when pressed, most LBS's admit as much)

Instead of doing their own work. It gets them off course and that's what I fear is happening to you now.


That's not very friendly. But the other side of the coin here, I wish to keep her as my wife and have her back, and taking that step is sort of opposite that, right?

[color:#3333FF]
Yes it's the opposite. Ask yourself why you wanted to do that, and dig DEEP when you search. Note, the real journey in life is an inward one. That's the "upside" of these painful ordeals.

We grow, or we stagnate. If we choose the latter, chances are we'll also become bitter, not bEtter.

Anyhow, I must have missed something but did you get overt proof or evidence that your wife committed adultery? Because you are acting as if you have.

No, I do NOT believe that acting this way in the absence of proof or even half decent evidence helps YOU or the "cause." Why assume SHE is at fault and "wayward" when you admit the marriage had deeply rooted issues?

Because it's easier to point fingers and BLAME HER, than it is to keep at your own personal work.
I say this^^ from my own experience.

I could not wrap my brain around my h's choices and so I decided he was "wrong" (or at least "wronger") and I was right. But that wasn't enough.


I wanted that "Declared" in some form, but I wanted all this subconsciously b/c I knew in my HEAD how it sounded...but deep down I did not want to look at my role. While I conceded I had made mistakes, I kept my focus on HIS choices and HIS "wrongness" b/c it seemed to far exceed mine.

And that got me nowhere....for a year of my life.

Also, I sure as heck did not want to let go of the illusion I had that I could somehow control my h or "get him to see" anything...but I had to.

Back to YOUR marriage and wife...you said the intimacy in the marriage dropped off noticeably 1-2 years ago. That's a biggie. Any idea why? How was it before the drop off?

IMO, someone her age not being interested in sex with her h, is a red flag. No, I do NOT mean it always smacks of a OM!

But I think it's safe to say that if a 26 y/o woman is physically AND emotionally healthy, but she loses interest in sex with the man she married, there's a big problem INSIDE the marriage. Menopause can be challenging, but at her age, it's about the marriage...you need to dig deeper.

This issue has been percolating awhile. No way can you blame it all on an OM even if there is one.

You spotted & admitted to one root cause. (And that's really good!)

She didn't feel amorous when she felt criticized or judged, and you didn't feel loving or warm b/c you weren't having sex, (chicken or the egg)

and you felt you were doing more than she was around the house, correct? (Sorry if I'm over simplifying but is that the gist?)

One point I took from my DB coach that I'll pass onto you now is to

"Lose the scorecard" and any measuring you have been doing in your m. If you do dishes 5 nights a week and she does them twice, SO WHAT? You want less intimacy or more criticism inside your marriage, for some chores?

Do not count.

Here's the deal with scorecards IN marriages: 1) they never ever help a marriage and;

2) your spouse has her own, different scorecard. On HERS, you are way behind.

Also, your tone here^^ is coming across as judgmental. It's a bit of amnesia don't you think? I mean, it's as if you are saying she left a solid happy marriage for an OM - but from where I sit,

there's no proof of an OM (Starsky makes valid points about why one would want to snoop or assume an affair. I won't dispute he has a point;. I just happen to hold a very different opinion. I see zero value in assuming an affair, and I see problems with snooping.

Again, if an affair were an absolute deal breaker, then I'd hold a different opinion b/c you would want to know then. You'd base your whole course of action on whether there was an affair b/c you know you'd make different choices;.

But if you are willing to try and fix the problems INSIDE the marriage AND you think you could get past this (with mutual forgiveness on both sides) and thus, your path is the same regardless, then why the snooping/self inflicted pain AND judgement of her? How on earth does that HELP YOU?

How about you stick to your plans for self improvement and detachment and GAL and leave the issue of OM for a time IF/when you KNOW it's true?

Besides, the more judgmental you sound of her here, the less likely she'll believe you could ever get past this. (I wonder myself, based on how you've evolved in the few weeks here. I sense growing anger and a lot of deflection from what your role may have been. That gets you stuck fast.)

IF there were an affair, She may assume you'll throw it in her face every time you two fight (which I think must have happened in the past with all the resentment)

OR that you'll hold it over her head like the Sword of Damocles.

That is my .02 . Keep on Keeping on!!

[25yearsmlc]

PS

I think you need a strategy and a game plan. Here is what I posted to someone else and much of it applies to you and your situation.

Game plans require a stated GOAL, and a plan to achieve that goal.

But the goal cannot be to reconcile with your wife.

Sounds sad and harsh, I know. But this^^ is ALL about you wanting something you cannot necessarily ever have again So for now--

Let's do what the vows say and drop the past so we can move

"From this day forward"...

The goal FOR NOW must be exclusively about your own growth as a man. Becoming the best man you can become.

DEFINE that in specific terms you understand.

Get some "mantras" or inspiring quotes for yourself, and SAY them out loud to yourself several times a day.

Turn your marriage over to God, to free yourself to just work on YOU. No more focus on the outcome, or trying to manipulate it...let go.

Behave in healthy confident ways and eventually, you will FEEL healthier and more confident. In TIME, your life will improve.

The improved life you create for yourself must and will be enough for you.

What your wife does or believes about the new wonderful you, is far beyond your control.
Any efforts on your end to affect that, are for nothing. They are wasted energy.

That energy (the energy spent on worrying about her

OR in trying to convince her of anything about you) is a waste of energy.

Spend ALL of your energy on becoming the best man you can become. The reality of who you become, will suffice. It MUST suffice.

If she believes you are a purple lesbian from Mars, you may not be able to change that belief but you cannot let it change the reality that you are a man with great qualities. You cannot focus on someone who believes false things.
Her beliefs will NOT be based on reality, her "data" about you will be false.
Those beliefs and her behavior cannot matter to you now.

The fact that you become a better man and great husband (for someone) has to be enough for you. Because it is real. If you keep in touch with her family or other mutual friends, word will get back to her.

THAT^^ is all you ought to "do", b/c it happens to align with your goal of becoming the best man you can become. NOT to win her back -but b/c you want to self actualize.


The effort to understand her now, or to "teach her a lesson", and or to "get" her and to make her understand (anything) about you or that you love her, is ALL for nothing. Worse, it's actually counter productive.

It means your energy is "outward bound" instead of being about YOUR own growth and YOUR Changes.

You'll keep checking in with her to "See if she knows that I feel X" and you'll keep on taking her temperature to see if "she knows Y and Z"

and your energy will continue to hone in only on HER reactions to your behavior.

That ^^is no way to live and it sure won't re-attract her to you.

(If it were effective and if it worked, it would have by now.)

Go inward for the changes you need to make, and outward to GAL.


Get her off your radar screen...for now and the foreseeable future.

Turn the marriage over to God, & simply completely take charge of your own life.

When you become the best man you truly can be, and you know it,

then you can turn ALL of this over to God, let the cards fall where they will,

and be at peace.

From this day forward, Hold your head high and live your life well.[/color]

[bravo61]

25,
Curious. How is unfriending on FB punitive? As I see it, it's giving space and removing a vehicle that more times than not emotionally harms us LBS.

I did it so as not to focus on XW and I'm not friends with her. We are being fired as spouse's. I agree if someone is just attempting to make a righteous "grand statement" about it. Especially as the WAS doesn't care about us. How does it "hurt" them?

Just questions that popped up to me.

[aNewGuy]

Thank you each for all of all of the insight you have provided!

I am still quite new at all of this and it is overwhelming to try and respond adequately, especially with work not quite two hours from now and me wanting to respond fresh off of having read your responses.

First off, I politely declined the invitation from my coworker to go to a concert last night, and no bridges were burned. She made it clear that she wanted a date and that made me especially sure that I wanted to keep about my own business! I agree that I am in no way ready to spend any one on one time with any member of the opposite sex!

I have a lot, no, a TON to think about here.

W texted me the other day (before I posted all of my most recent postings) and asked me if I was dating. I said no. I asked her if she was and she said yes. I asked her who was the lucky guy and she declined to share. She proceeded to say I should be dating. I responded that I will do so when I am ready and the time is right.

About FB, I agree that I may be coming from a "punitive" motive and from the hopes that the loss of me as a friend on FB would somehow contribute to having her somehow snap out of all of this and come home. I am seeing that perhaps I need to really adjust my thinking about all of this, which is exactly why I'm here. Having a divorce thrust upon me after all of the GREAT times we did have seems like something that requires an answer or response on my part, but I also see where doing so could do more harm than good in my relationship with her.

I am angry about all of this. Sad and angry and somewhat bewildered. The saddest part is that she must have been hurting a whole lot to get to this point, and I think my "keeping score" contributed to that pain. It is a terrible feeling to feel responsible for pushing your wife away one day at a time. The part that makes me angry is that I failed to see this coming until the bomb was dropped. I really thought I could "fix" this and that we were just going through a tough phase and that we would find our path and things would get back to the good, productive, happier times we both enjoyed.

I'm also angry because she seems to be holding up the divorce proudly like a banner to me as if I were so terrible and she is finally free, while I am just extremely sad over the whole situation and wish I could find a way to right all that I did wrong.

Yes, I was judgmental and I was always trying to "fix" things that weren't broken. I can be a perfectionist, and when something came up where I felt my experience would benefit her I made it known. She often came back at me with phrases like "You are talking to me like you're my father".

I really wish the board rules here didn't prohibit an occasional cuss word because just thinking about what a tool I have been in all of this makes me want to cuss out loud!!

I can't imagine what it would have been like for her to live with a husband who acted in that manner toward his wife, good intentions or not. We had a lot of laughter and we shared a whole bunch of good times, but one night about three years into our marriage we got into an argument over something which we couldn't resolve at the time, and things have slowly but surely snowballed downhill from that point.

It makes me sad to think she likely feels that she is not what I need, is not right for me, that she is somehow doing me a favor because I feel I spent too much time tending the weeds in our garden instead of tending the roses. That's perhaps the hardest part in all of this is knowing that by FAILING TO FOCUS ON ALL THE BLESSING THAT WAS OCCURRING ALL AROUND US, and focusing instead on the unimportant minor frustrations like the doing of the dishes and similar stuff, I really choked out the good in our marriage and I believe that is my part in all of this, or at least the core of it.

I want now to focus on recognizing these destructive behaviors for what they are and replacing them with better, much more productive and user-friendly behaviors.

I have a long way to go, clearly.


Thank you each for your input, your insightful responses hit home with me and I feel like are the beginnings of answered prayers. I don't know how it is possible to go through life so blind to our own problems and yet see someone else's so clearly. My eyes need more opening.

I intend to put all of my energy into me, none of it going out toward her right now, and any energy going out will be toward GAL and becoming the best man I can be! And fir the next nine hours or so, toward me job!

Thank you all for your insights and please don't let up. I am still asking for prayer for my wife, myself and my marriage that we would learn what God is trying to teach us and become what He is trying to make us.

[aNewGuy]

And Bravo61, I agree with 25 on this one - for me I will just step away from looking at my wife's facebook page for now because unfriending her would be manipulative on my part - I would be doing so in attempt to control the outcome of all of this - and that is something that won't help me get about the business of setting my own goals and doing everything I can to be the best me I can be!

I guess no matter what steps I think about taking to "Save the M" are really missing the point. The M is no more. I need to REALLY give this to God and focus on looking in the mirror to get the logs out of my own eyes.

[aNewGuy]

So tomorrow the W wants me to decide whether I will make her serve me D papers, or I will willingly go and sign them.

I still feel like I should put up a fight and have her serve me the papers - even though she told me in a text that this would prevent us from having a friendship.

Today I worked my new second job, enjoyed it, and then I went to the shooting range with a friend - it was a good day! Haven't heard anything from my wife since Friday when we saw one another at work, but tomorrow we will see one another again.

I still have a long way to go.

I feel like I need to reveal something about this situation that could perhaps be dangerous to reveal, but is a truth about my situation nonetheless. We live in a place where marijuana is legal and two years ago we started using this together.

I am someone who prefers that over any of the other "Vices" many people choose.

BUT... Here is the main point - when someone uses this, they say to themselves, "I know I need to deal with thus and so, but I am going to smoke tonight and then tomorrow I will deal with it." Rinse and repeat this 700 times, and this situation is what you get.

We have no children, so what's the harm, we would say.

Let me tell anyone reading this that if you are doing this and having trouble in your marriage you need to stop this right now. It will cause you to not see the seriousness of your situation. Stop it now - it is like a parasite which takes up space which should be occupied instead by caring for the needs of your partner, your family, your marriage. Trust me, you can deal with painful happenings or circumstances one little bit at a time as they come, day by day. This is the correct path to take - you deal with things as they come up. OR, you can choose to smoke (or drink, for that matter) your troubles away and one day you will find that they are still there, but instead of having dealt with them along the way you will be facing them all at once!

I smoked my last joint the day she moved out.

I shall never write of this again online. I hope I have not violated any policy by admitting this on this very special and blessed online forum, but I feel you all should have some truthful insight as to how a marriage I described as just excellent could have gone so far in the other direction without cause. There was cause, neither of us cared because we were choosing to numb the pain of so much loss we had in the past two years instead of facing it head on.

And tomorrow, I must make my decision as to whether I will cooperate with the divorce by going to the lawyer's office and signing papers (we do not have ay disagreement on the division of our assets) OR if I will stand up for myself by saying no, I don't have time to go to the lawyer's office, you should serve me with these papers instead.

I'm just sad that all of this happened, it is a real loss to our community and to each other that we are in this place and I pray that God will restore our marriage one day with forgiveness and healing and laughter and that both of us will be healthier and happier because of all of this having happened.

Oh, and in pursuit of getting a life I have made plans for a camping trip next month with some friends! I'm already excited about this, hoping to have a really good time!

[pilot]

I still feel like I should put up a fight and have her serve me the papers - even though she told me in a text that this would prevent us from having a friendship.

So in her mind she can have an affair and you are supposed to deal with it and remain friends. However, if you do not help her get a D that you do not want, she says she cannot be your friend. This is just a product of her crazy line of thinking. I would make her serve you. My W filed D a year ago in May. I never went and signed anything. And she never served me. Make her serve you. Once served you normally have 30 days to reply. I would wait as much of those 30 days as you can. You can certainly pick a lawyer in the meantime, but why rush it.

[aNewGuy]

So she told me her father was having surgery this morning and asked me to pray for him.

And then in the next message she asked me if I had decided whether I would go and sign the papers. I wrote back and told her I would be praying for her father throughout the day. And that I had not changed my mind about the papers.

She wrote back a while later and told me I will be served and that this is the last I will hear from her until her lawyer has my signed papers in his hands.

Wow, I think my health could use a break from all of this. I am trying to improve and make other plans and do all the things I need to do to make myself into that guy who anyone would be crazy to leave but days like this make the whole thing so tough to swallow.

[Zelda09]

I'm so sorry, New guy.
As Mark Mansin said, if "Eva Longoria doesn't see the value in me, that's her problem."

Hang in there.

[pilot]

Good for you for not caving to her demands. She is going to be mad at you in part because she cannot control you and she is now figuring this out. Remember, her emotions are going to be a roller coaster as well. Her anger will rise and fall. Just take it for what it is...

[aNewGuy]

Thanks Z and P. I have a lot of work to do on me right now.

Her father had complications in surgery today. Anyone who reads this and prays for others, pray for my father in law.

She got right down to business and had me served with D papers at work today.

I guess now I finally take her seriously that she is the one who is doing this. I plan to keep my distance very much from her - I have enough issues to work on myself.

In reading other peoples situations on here I see many little pieces of myself and my sitch scattered throughout everyone else's. I think I am in the right place here. A lot of learning the real reasons why I act certain ways - I am overall a very good man but reading here and learning bit by bit how some of my actions may be interpreted (based on bits and pieces of other people's sitch's) is causing some concerns for me. I have a long way to go.

[aNewGuy]

For example my making her serve me rather than going down to the lawyer's office really may have set me back in this situation. It makes me feel better because I feel I am making a stand and saying I do not want this D! But my goal shouldn't be just feeling better. I want her to see and know that she is loved. That she married a guy who would do anything for another chance to make babies with her, seriously talking about the babies here not merely the act of making them. Not sure whether I moved closer to, or farther away, from that goal today.

[pilot]

I understand those feelings of wanting her to know she is loved and you will do anything for her. But you really need to understand she is not at a place in her life where she wants love from you. You did the right thing by not participating in the divorce and making her serve you. Sure it upset her, and you are most likely going to do things in the future which upset her again in this process. Dont let her mood dictate your actions. Let your beliefs. You do not agree with the divorce so do not work towards advancing it. Time is your friend.

[aNewGuy]

Time is my friend, but at the same time now have 18 days remaining before I must answer her papers, or else they judge can do whatever the judge wants. I feel like at this point, I am going to be forced to participate, or else I may be agreeing by default to things I would not want to agree to.

I feel as though fighting this will do two things at least:

1. It will cost us both thousands of dollars
2. It will cause her to simply want it even more.

I see on here how others have had success by being friendly and helpful to their spouse, but I don't know how to do that when I am reeling from all of this. She wrote me the other day and said that she wants the remainder of her stuff in the house (she only took one day to clean out her belongings and she left a lot of sentimental things behind).

Here's my side of this: I told her that she was welcome to come back for more, but that I wasn't going to just be bringing her her things to work one item at a time whenever she texts me asking for it. She wrote me the other day saying she was sure I had already trashed all of her things. I wrote her back and told her that there was no way I would have done that, that I have not done that, and that she needs to come help me go through things because all of our things are mixed together.

She responded "Ok", but no further response or discussion.


I'm lost in all of this. I want for her to have everything that's hers. I have taken steps to get her remaining belongings as organized as possible, but I just don't want to make the effort to move her stuff out of my house on her behalf. I have made it clear that I want for her to have her things, and I have taken steps to protect and organize her things for her, I just ran out of steam and have not finalized packing up and going through to get anything that may important and mine. I don't really want to finalize all of that for her either.

I'm not sure how to show her love and kindness without simultaneously making it appear as though I actually want to split up, is I guess my problem right now. I'm conflicted as heck, basically.

More than anything, I want to learn how it is that I pushed her away and learn how my own behavior and self-righteousness has contributed to all of this, so that I might become better because of it. I am saddened that she felt the need to get out, it hurts me to think I have hurt her deeply enough (one little criticism at a time, I think) to make her leave a marriage that was once so very loving. We always woke up and told one another we thanked God for the other. We always gave generously of our many blessings to those around us. We always spoke of forgiveness, generosity and laughter. I think my contribution to our downfall was that of being "high and mighty". I am not fully sure, but whatever it was I want to fully and completely eradicate it from my personality and replace it with something much nicer. Really true the saying "The road to h#!! is paved with good intentions."!!

I am working on validation in the context of every other relationship in my life, in other words I am working on listening to what people have to say and understanding them, rather that listening and then spewing out a "fix" or "answer" for whatever they have just told me. It seems to be working in my personal life, I just still don't fully grasp the true meaning.


I want to be a better friend to my friends and to be a better husband to my wife, even though the ship seems to have sailed on that one for the time being.

If nothing else, this extremely painful situation has proven effective at making me realize some things about myself that I never saw before. Like the fact that other people's perspectives are at LEAST as valuable as my own, if not more so.

Today I pray for God to guide my steps, words and actions as He sees fit. For me to be able to hear and respond to what He has to say about all of this. I want to know how to show her kindness and respect by finding the right way to get her reunited with those items she wants but has left behind. And I want to be able to do this while respecting my desire to see her come back home one day to find a loving, forgiving, confident and unyielding husband who is happy with his own life to the degree that she can say whatever she needs to say and not worry about hurting his feelings. One who is strong enough to be her man and accept his own responsibility, while not denying hers, for the way our first marriage turned out. I am old enough now to know that true love is just extremely rare and hard to find - and valuable, too.

Thanks you all for the support. Say a prayer that God will touch my wife and myself both today with the wisdom we both desperately need regarding our situation.

[aNewGuy]

Wow I can't believe how much I just wrote.

[aNewGuy]

If I really fight the divorce, it will cost me all of my material possessions and who knows if she would ever come back. If I go along with it, I keep most all of my things, but then she sees I didn't fight. Ugh. Yes...time.

[Cadet]

My advice is to protect yourself financially.

Divorce is just a piece of paper and does not really mean anything in the big scheme of things.

[Zelda09]

New guy, I am so sorry. I can relate to so much of what you have said and how you feel about self righteousness, and all the rest. I haven't had time to get caught up on your search, but have you had any opportunity to sit down and tell heranything along the lines of what you just wrote? I mean, face-to-face. I know that the arm is about non-pursued at this stage, but it really looks as though you will be divorced. So what do you have to lose?I think you are right about how fighting that will push her away and cost you more than help you. Perhaps the only thing you could do at this point is planted seed of doubt for her. Through your actions, show her you are validating and recognizing and not trying to fix. Don't seek to change her or her mind, just let her see you. And let her hear you saywhat is in your heart.

[Starsky309]

ANG, a good rule of thumb is never try to be friends with someone who is suing you (and that's what a divorce action is). Ours is -- by design -- an adversarial legal system, and there's a reason why they put that little "v" between the names of the parties.

Protect yourself.


Starsky

[pilot]

Starsky is correct. Protect yourself. Also, be prepared for some vile and maybe untrue statements thrown at you by her attorney. Try not to take it person as it is just a job to the attorney. Their job is to get the most for their client. So they will take the smallest imperfection on your part and make it out to be monumental.

Also, do not worry about filing deadlines and what not. My example. My W filed last May in our old state. She never served me. I filed in our new state after having lived here for 6 months. She waited till the day before her deadline to reply. Had she not replied, I would have literally had months of legal filings to try and get what I wanted absent her participation. And then even if I got it, she still would have I think 4 months to appeal and in all likelihood would have gotten it as judges do not like ruling regarding kids absent one parent's input. So it would have had to start all over. Again, do not get hung up on dates and deadlines in your D if it is filed. We had a court date a few weeks ago. Missed it. Heck her answers to her discovery questions are nearly 3 months late...and still waiting on them. Luckily for you, nothing moves quick on its own in the legal system and you are more than able to easily slow things down for months and months if you chose.

[HeavyD]

I don;'t view it as fighting, but as protecting. She brought this one with her 2 Affairs right? That was an act of war against you and your children. Protect yourself and them.

She is acting in a selfish and irresponsible manner, you are protecting yourself within the rule of law. That is not vindictive not punative, you have every right to protect yourself and family.

I woudn't worry about it. This process could go on for years if you wanted to stall it out.

Hire the best lawyer you can, have them go slowly, and see what happens. Yes, your wife will be made as heck, but the final end goal is what you are set on, not the short sighted near goal.

Good luck!

Heavy D

[25yearsmlc]

25,
Curious. How is unfriending on FB punitive? As I see it, it's giving space and removing a vehicle that more times than not emotionally harms us LBS.

Unfriending her is an affirmative act, as opposed to simply ignoring her, which would achieve the stated goal of giving her space.

Plus it's not detachment. Detaching would mean he just stopped looking at HER Page and thus, un friending her would be unnecessary.



I did it so as not to focus on XW and I'm not friends with her. We are being fired as spouse's. I agree if someone is just attempting to make a righteous "grand statement" about it. Especially as the WAS doesn't care about us. How does it "hurt" them?

Just questions that popped up to me.

Fair enough.

But I'm not saying she will be hurt, but one would hope so since ONE obvious goal is to get a reaction from her. (In addition to that, might be the belief that she'll feel pushed away from him and thus "not his friend" which might hurt her feelings. But that pain would likely convert quickly, into resentment.

See, the concept that her pain (whether she feels insulted or hurt) will lead to guilt and a change of heart, is very mistaken.

The guilt a WAS feels, IF ANY, almost always converts into resentment of the person "causing" the guilt. No spouse returns and stays in a marriage, because of shame. And it's certainly not likely to spur any romantic feelings.

Those are just some of the reasons MWD and Div Busting oppose the idea of exposing an affair to other 3rd parties.

Furthermore, I'm simply thinking she'll see it as a maneuver on his part, and or an example of more of his "Whatever it is"---

"oh there he goes, acting controlling/angry/judgmental/childish/suspicious" or whatever other term she'd use, to help her justify leaving.

The real goal of DBing at this stage (not later, when this won't matter nearly as much)

is to get the WAS to second guess their choice to leave. How do we do that?


We want to counter their negative images (the ones they used to rationalize leaving a marriage in the first place) with positives.

We want them to believe that their data about us is not valid or is based on faulty (or outdated, b/c we have changed or are changing) data.

Thus, if the LBSer is late often and the WAS complained of it, then the lbs er becomes VERY punctual and starts arriving early for events...

it's ^^ a small fairly painless example but I think it makes the point.

Another would be if the complaint is that "he never helps with the kids/house"

then becoming more involved in both, overtly but authentically, would make sense.

Does that help clarify my position?

[25yearsmlc]

I'm truly sorry you are in such pain. It just sukks.

But before you get all feisty and let your righteous anger steer you onto a path that won't yield you the results you say you want, look at your own insights...

and here is an ironic admonition, "remember to avoid amnesia" about your role in all this.

Otherwise, the terrible pain of this ordeal will not yield the single upside to all this, which is personal growth & self awareness.

Thank you each for all of all of the insight you have provided!

I am still quite new at all of this and it is overwhelming to try and respond adequately, especially with work not quite two hours from now and me wanting to respond fresh off of having read your responses.

First off, I politely declined the invitation from my coworker to go to a concert last night, and no bridges were burned. She made it clear that she wanted a date and that made me especially sure that I wanted to keep about my own business! I agree that I am in no way ready to spend any one on one time with any member of the opposite sex!

Good choice on your part. The separation is very recent. I'm NOT clear on the dates of all this b/c you don't list the date of the bomb.

But you do say herein, that troubles began a few years ago...yet the recency of the separation makes me think dating (on either party's part) is pretty wacky.

I have a lot, no, a TON to think about here.

W texted me the other day (before I posted all of my most recent postings) and asked me if I was dating. I said no. I asked her if she was and she said yes.


May I suggest you demure next time she asks if you are dating and NOT to ask her anything about her social life. There are plenty of good insightful "I care about you as a person" type of questions to ask, like about her work or school or family or friends.


I asked her who was the lucky guy and she declined to share.

Ouch...please don't ask her about it again b/c NO answer is a "good one" for you.


She proceeded to say I should be dating. I responded that I will do so when I am ready and the time is right.
--

I am seeing that perhaps I need to really adjust my thinking about all of this, which is exactly why I'm here. Having a divorce thrust upon me after all of the GREAT times we did have seems like something that requires an answer or response on my part, but I also see where doing so could do more harm than good in my relationship with her.

the legal response need not be mean or nasty at all. It's simply a reply. Silence is also a reply, and it's probably not the one you want to give.


I am angry about all of this. Sad and angry and somewhat bewildered. The saddest part is that she must have been hurting a whole lot to get to this point, and I think my "keeping score" contributed to that pain.

No need to hate yourself for it, but it's KEY that you recall this when you get cheered on by other angry folks in your life who want you to "get MAD!" b/c they were/are, which will NOT help you in any way towards any goal

and when you begin a new R with your wife (or OW) so that you don't find yourself here again.

Plus, Realizing that she was in deep pain (clearly true) which you either didn't see --- or saw - but glossed over, b/c "fixing it later" was just easier than dealing with it then and there,

will keep you aware and sensitive, without being a doormat. It always baffles me to see people really dig deep and "get it" about their shortcomings, only to throw it out the window when their ego gets too bruised.


As I said, the only upside to this whole nightmarish ordeal is growth and self improvement. That's not likely when we get angry and filled with self righteousness.


It is a terrible feeling to feel responsible for pushing your wife away one day at a time. The part that makes me angry is that I failed to see this coming until the bomb was dropped. I really thought I could "fix" this and that we were just going through a tough phase and that we would find our path and things would get back to the good, productive, happier times we both enjoyed.

Not to parse words too much, but what was it you believed needed "fixing", if the bomb was really the first time you realized she was unhappy? Can you recall?

IF so, how would you handle that differently, now?

I'm also angry because she seems to be holding up the divorce proudly like a banner to me as if I were so terrible and she is finally free,

If I'm hearing you, you're saying she's a lot more at peace with this than you. That makes sense. But if you are saying she is "proudly" holding it up, I'm unclear. To whom is she doing this and is it more b/c she must justify leaving a marriage that others thought was fine, or is it simply that you are hurt she isn't torn apart by a decision she has reached, (probably after a lot of time & thought)?

The LBSer is usually stunned (& more hurt) by the certainty some WAS's show in their choice. But to the WAS, it's not a "dilemma" and they are not torn, b/c they have given this a lot of thought that the LBSer did not know about.


aNew guy, it's not that she thinks it was all terrible. But why would she NOW think of all the good times?

Those good memories need to resurface and they will, when she has the time and space to reflect on good moments, when her choices are NOT being challengeed b/c the more you challenge her choices, the more she is forced to defend them...

But know this: there are songs and places and foods and fragrances and events and holidays and people that will remind her of YOU and the marriage and many will be good memories...and if not, if she was unhappy for more of the marriage than you realized,

than so be it. You cannot change that now.

All you can do is change who you are when you are around her. But if your perception of the past is accurate, then you want her to recall the good moments and to believe that there'd be more of those good moments and few or none of the bad times.

Make sense?


while I am just extremely sad over the whole situation and wish I could find a way to right all that I did wrong.

Yes, I was judgmental and I was always trying to "fix" things that weren't broken. I can be a perfectionist, and when something came up where I felt my experience would benefit her I made it known. She often came back at me with phrases like "You are talking to me like you're my father".


telling someone that your experience might benefit them...well, how does that sound to you, now?


I really wish the board rules here didn't prohibit an occasional cuss word because just thinking about what a tool I have been in all of this makes me want to cuss out loud!!

I can't imagine what it would have been like for her to live with a husband who acted in that manner toward his wife, good intentions or not. We had a lot of laughter and we shared a whole bunch of good times, but one night about three years into our marriage we got into an argument over something which we couldn't resolve at the time, and things have slowly but surely snowballed downhill from that point.

So, are you saying that you are less bewildered now?

It makes me sad to think she likely feels that she is not what I need, is not right for me, that she is somehow doing me a favor because I feel I spent too much time tending the weeds in our garden instead of tending the roses. That's perhaps the hardest part in all of this is knowing that by FAILING TO FOCUS ON ALL THE BLESSING THAT WAS OCCURRING ALL AROUND US, and focusing instead on the unimportant minor frustrations like the doing of the dishes and similar stuff, I really choked out the good in our marriage and I believe that is my part in all of this, or at least the core of it.

This^^ is a brutally sad realization, but it's a valuable one. Don't lose sight of it when you start to feel anger. It's too painful a lesson to throw away.

I want now to focus on recognizing these destructive behaviors for what they are and replacing them with better, much more productive and user-friendly behaviors.


This^^ is THE REAL GOAL of Dbing for you at this time. Make the most of it.

I have a long way to go, clearly.


Thank you each for your input, your insightful responses hit home with me and I feel like are the beginnings of answered prayers. I don't know how it is possible to go through life so blind to our own problems and yet see someone else's so clearly. My eyes need more opening.

I recall being here 8-10 years ago and wondering how in the world so many people (half of all marriages, after all) could walk around and not cry all the time. How'd they go to work and do their jobs? How'd they drive a car?

Heck, there were times i wondered how they got out of bed, b/c I sure didn't feel like it.

But we do get up, we do drive our cars and go to work and somehow, generally, we function and we make progress and keep one foot in front of the other.

And we grow. And we love again...and we laugh again, and so will you.


I intend to put all of my energy into me, none of it going out toward her right now, and any energy going out will be toward GAL and becoming the best man I can be! And fir the next nine hours or so, toward me job!

^^ Good idea

Thank you all for your insights and please don't let up. I am still asking for prayer for my wife, myself and my marriage that we would learn what God is trying to teach us and become what He is trying to make us.

Amen!

[Karma12]

You are getting some great advice from vets on your thread. Follow the DB principles. I was a young wayward once. She needs space to breath and learn what life without you feels like. Plus she most likely has an interest if not an affair. He wanting you to date is really to make her feel less guilty. Best you can do it to keep GAL. She will sense when you are moving on in your own life. She will find that single life is not fun for long. You want to be the safe place to land. Not the guy that has know life sitting around waiting.

[aNewGuy]

Wow this is a lot to absorb. The responses especially you 25Yearsmic and Karma12 - are truly answers to my prayers for wisdom.

Focusing on my work and home life right now.

Looks like if I want to hire an attorney of my own for this whole deal, I'm going to be in to it for at least a couple thousand dollars, of which I want to spend exactly zero.

My wife has told me that she won't go after me for any more assets than those she has already left here with, but the divorce takes 90 days and if I don't respond within 16 days from now, I am going to waive all right to respond any further. Ugh.

If only I could know that she means what she says and won't try to take anything that's not hers.

Thank you 25yearsmic again for taking the time to provide your insights. I hope to be able to answer some of your questions in a future post. Like my bomb drop date which was Feb 23, 15.

[pilot]

If only I could know that she means what she says and won't try to take anything that's not hers.

DO NOT TAKE HER WORD! She is suing you. Her lawyer is out to get the absolute best he can for his/her client. You give her any ground they will take it and try for more. That is why settlement negotiations always start with absurd requests on both sides. Each side shoots for their best case scenario. Please protect yourself. Yes it is expensive and no one here wants to spend money on an attorney when we all have many better things we would rather spend it on. But a little money now can save you a fortune in the future. She filed using an attorney. You MUST have your own attorney reply.

Understand this is not going to be a quick process unless you want it to be a quick process. Her lawyer, your future lawyer, the judge...they all have a million other things they are working on besides your divorce. It is a priority for her, a concern for you, but just another stack of papers on already crowded desks for them. Tell your attorney, whomever you hire, that you want to drag your feet on this. He/she will probably be more than happy to comply because it gives them time to work on their other cases.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

The guilt a WAS feels, IF ANY, almost always converts into resentment of the person "causing" the guilt. No spouse returns and stays in a marriage, because of shame. And it's certainly not likely to spur any romantic feelings.

The "cause" of the guilt is the infidelity. NOT the reaction to infidelity. A betrayed spouse could do absolutely nothing. Behave completely stoic and the wayward spouse would FEEL ashamed.

People that behave badly SHOULD feel ashamed.

My wife came back to me in shame. She still feels guilt to this day and overwhelmed by what she put me through and yet I remained. I didn't "shame her" back and I never held her betrayal over her head. But I did fight the affair and I did do a non-vindictive exposure to a small group of friends and family. Like Starsky I merely asked for prayerful support for her, myself and our children.

ANDDDDDDD ~ we are romantically in love with each other and recovered over a decade.

I know you said "almost always" but I know plenty of other exceptions to this rule in my real life besides just us.

Other instances where short term shame and guilt helps motivate struggling lost "wayward" type persons would be any kind of intervention for drugs and alcohol. Nobody would tell those families NOT to intervene because the target addict will most certainly come to resent them for trying to shame and guilt them into treatment.

Besides, IMO, IF a wayward spouse's shame converts into resentment against the spouse they completely devastated instead of bringing her to repentance they PROBABLY aren't worth reconciling with in the first place. Some people are just shameless.


Add ~ it is possible to have righteous anger AND reflect and grow. The posters wife just filed for divorce and you want him to reflect on his role in her banging another man

Add ~ good job aNewGuy not going on that date. You are married until you are not married. Just because your wife thinks spouses and vows are disposable doesn't mean you have to or should agree. Your vows included "in good times and bad, sickness and health". At least one parent needs to model to your children that they will stick to their commitment until such time as they are released from that commitment by a court of law. Adultery is adultery.

[25yearsmlc]

[quote=25yearsmlc]
The guilt a WAS feels, IF ANY, almost always converts into resentment of the person "causing" the guilt. No spouse returns and stays in a marriage, because of shame. And it's certainly not likely to spur any romantic feelings.

The "cause" of the guilt is the infidelity. NOT the reaction to infidelity. A betrayed spouse could do absolutely nothing. Behave completely stoic and the wayward spouse would FEEL ashamed.

Georgia Bull Dog

Please note that I put the word "Cause" in quotes b/c I'm saying it from the perspective of the WAS, not you or the LBS. I guess I need to make that more clear...but if a woman has had an affair (which we do NOT know here)

Statistics show us that they tend to feel justified. Unlike some men (more of whom can have casual affairs) married women tend to have rationalized, rightly or wrongly, their behavior. They often describe themselves as feeling "forced" or "pushed into the arms" of OM By behaviors or neglect of their h


Only a stubborn fool would refuse to look at their own role in this perspective. That's not to "Blame" the h, it's to objectively own our part in our marital situations.


I commend NewGuy for digging deep b/c it's a brave thing to do and the real journey in life is an inward one.

I still believe condemning his wife does not serve any good purpose.

I also think it plays right into her narrative (and HIS OWN!) of him being critical and judgmental (and what's more judgmental than declaring that someone we have NO proof of having cheated, "Should be ashamed"?

No one is here to be "declared right" or "the TRUE victim".

Sometimes we have to choose whether we want to be "right", or happy.

People that behave badly SHOULD feel ashamed.


The focus in DBing is on doing what works. Shaming them or pronouncing that they "should feel ashamed" is not effective very often. Usually It backfires, which is what my original point was. And there's data supporting that in the DB books.

Besides, self righteous fury takes so much energy, energy that could be spent on our own growth.

Speaking from personal experience,

I wasted a year of my life being furious & justifying it - and becoming an angry bitter woman - not better -

AND asking questions that had no "good" answer. That's a year I'll never get back. And life is too short.

Why surrender to or champion the cause of anger? How that does help him?

And for the record, there is a real difference between remorse and shame.

If and when a woman cheats and IF and when she feels remorse for it, that's a crucial milestone. That is a cross roads.

if she feels shame, the data suggests she will NOT stay there wallowing in it for long (most people can't wallow in shame. For one thing, it's not healthy and so

They either make changes in their life and turn over a new leaf

AND OR they blame the person that they BELIEVE "caused" the guilt/shame.

Plus, there is usually an element of self righteousness in the LBSer who declares that their spouse "Should be ashamed". It's just not as likely to lead to reconciliation and that is still THIS MAN'S goal.

I'm not a believer that "only cheaters seek out divorce". There's such a thing as an unhappy marriage, without adultery.

And fantasizing about an unknown but kinder, more loving spouse is not adultery; it's wishing (praying) for more.

I think a lot of this is more complicated sometimes.

My wife came back to me in shame. She still feels guilt to this day and overwhelmed by what she put me through and yet I remained.

Well goodness, Does it sound to you as if she has recovered

or does she have some PTSD?

I'm being sincere. If she "still feels guilt"a decade later, it sounds as if she does not feel forgiven.

Can you discuss more of that aspect?

And before this gets awkward or tense, this is not a contest and there is no competition here.

FTR, I'm a DB follower. I don't come here and suggest other alternative methods to marital crises. (There are other sites for those approaches, and they're plenty fine!)

But DBing does Not stress or focus on shame or guilt.
In my sessions with my DB coach (a true Godsend)

I found A LOT of focus on [b]forgiveness and how to do it. I never saw forgiveness growing up - so I had to learn it.

Without forgiveness on both sides along the way, I cannot see long term marriages lasting happily.



I didn't "shame her" back and I never held her betrayal over her head. But I did fight the affair and I did do a non-vindictive exposure to a small group of friends and family. Like Starsky I merely asked for prayerful support for her, myself and our children. [/b]

Last I checked I could not find your thread, but perhaps you have posted it since. There's little data in your signature block so I can't really comment on your situation in an informed manner.

In any case, Asking for prayerful support is wonderful; it's one thing most of us do.

Exposing to 3rd parties is NOT encouraged here; it's opposed.

Not to sound insulting, but I've read a lot of your posts & you tend to presume affairs before evidence of them appears, and you suggest the same "Exposure" theme

so I wonder whether you have read the book(s). No offense.

However, DB's author MWD opposes exposure -and There are lots of reasons for that which she gives and which I could add to.

Yet I believe that none of those reasons are going to persuade you, or you'd already be persuaded. And I see no point debating that here.

What worked for ME is what I learned and followed in the DB teachings. So that's what I post about here.

And since Newguy is not asking for us to comment on the subject of exposure, (and since what his wife is presently doing now (dating) will NOT be seen as "cheating" by most people "out there" b/c she has filed for divorce ---

I'm not sure how productive or relevant this piece of the story is. Again, it's about the DB approach and doing what works. Not doing 'anything that works" - but DB's methods...

As for Starsky, shoot, he and I have gone around and around about this. But Starskys' case has lots of dimensions to it, and among them is his own personal growth.

Anyway, for sure Starsky doesn't need me to speak for him.

ANDDDDDDD ~ we are romantically in love with each other and recovered over a decade.

I know you said "almost always" but I know plenty of other exceptions to this rule in my real life besides just us.

Other instances where short term shame and guilt helps motivate struggling lost "wayward" type persons would be any kind of intervention for drugs and alcohol. Nobody would tell those families NOT to intervene because the target addict will most certainly come to resent them for trying to shame and guilt them into treatment.


As a person in recovery now for 17 years, let me say I utterly & totally disagree with this^^ analysis.

It's shame that kept my secret hidden and shame/guilt that prevented me from seeking help much sooner.

it was love, HOPE and compassion that spurred me to believe I could get better and that motivated me to seek help.

I cannot stress this^^ enough.

.
-

Add ~ it is possible to have righteous anger AND reflect and grow. The posters wife just filed for divorce and you want him to reflect on his role in her banging another man

How can you read what I wrote and THEN put that twisted spin on it? That's not at all an accurate summary of my words.

Period.

I see that this is pointless now.

[Bob723]

Hello aNewGuy,

I've been reading thru your thread, and don't have any big advice to offer right now (it's 11:00 PM and I'm tired) but I do agree with you that the advice your were given is "a lot to absorb."

One thing that comes to mind is to please do your best to find time to absorb the advice from karma12 and 25yearsmic. "25" has helped me very much, as have many others on this wonderful forum.

I posted this bible verse in several threads and people have seemed to really love it:

‘For I know the plans I have for you,’ declares the LORD, ‘plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future’” (Jeremiah 29:11).

It helps me feel hopeful.

Don't forget to take care of yourself.

Bob

[aNewGuy]

I keep re-readng all of this each day, and taking a little bit more with me on the way each time.

Reconciliation IS my goal, and I don't ACTUALLY KNOW if she is / was having an actual affair, though most would look at my situation and think that an EA has been occurring for some time. I trusted implicitly that divorce was not something she would ever consider, and I also trusted her that she would not ever leave me for another. So I was stuck in a rut of thinking she was the one who needed to make changes. Today, I realize that I am the one who needed changing. I realize this while not denying that she also played a role in all of this, some *might* say her role was more critical than mine while others *might not*. I can only hope that God is working on her right now just like He's working on me. He is certainly capable of fixing even this situation.

Still not sure about the divorce and how I am going to proceed so far as responding to the case goes, but I still have a few days to figure that out.

My wife seems to be sending me more positive things in text. She asked when she could come over to go through things, which is the first time she has taken any responsibility for that. Obviously I am going to let her have anything that's hers!

I gave her a date when I will be available, she responded, and I asked her how her father is doing (he recently had surgery). She told me he is recovering and doing OK and I told her I am glad to hear it and she responded "Me too!!" and I left it at that.

More prayer and more time is needed. Thank you for your response Bob723, I want to convey how much it means to see someone else who aligns with 25yearsmic and Karma12, like I do, on the things I have presented.

[25yearsmlc]

Hey Newguy

God does do amazing things. Not always what or when we want, but at a minimum, he gives us the strength to face whatever may come.

As for the legal aspects of this, there's no advantage to ignoring the filing. At the very least ask your attorney (whom I hope you have hired) what a non response would mean. I don't know your state but I'm a lawyer myself (but a nice person!) and sometimes the non response does amount to concessions you would not want to make.

(Sometimes it's less meaningful so do check)

Mainly I want you to consider 2 things, from a LEGAL/Marital perspective...

1) protecting your Financial/Legal interests is NOT "escalation" (unless you choose to seek property that no reasonable person would, which I'm sure you won't).

It's just business and you need to look at it that way. Divorces DO costs money and it's not "mean" to allow that reality to occur; it's not as if you are shoving it in her face or punishing her.

Indeed, if you do too much of this "no response", you might be enabling her to avoid actual costs that she'll probably face later on anyhow. Make sense?

2) I strongly suggest you keep ANY & ALL discussions of legal matters and financial matters to the lawyers. That is what you pay them for AND it's a way to separate the dirty pieces of this, the parts that can lead to emotional escalation and bitterness between you two, from the way you interact with her, emotionally.

So you can GAL and Detach and move forward while treating her the way you wish you had before (without pursuing and yes that is possible)

and without mixing it up with the painful ugly parts of this. Let the lawyers do their jobs. Refer her to your lawyer if she begins to seek more than you believe is reasonable and or if she gets upset.

Referring her to your lawyer (or having hers call yours, etc) will also reduce the chance of a blow out with her.

When my h realized that a divorce would cost what it would cost, he got angry and he seemed to think that telling me he was "going to see a lawyer" would upset me.

It was just the opposite. I wanted him to hear a lawyer tell him some reality. (I told him to "Please see a lawyer asap so you don't have to take my word for it")

For me, seeing a lawyer was incredibly calming as I confirmed my hopes, not my fears, about how I would not be "on the streets with the kids"...

DO see a lawyer as soon as possible. You need not "do" anything but pay a lawyer for some time, but do get information. Truly knowledge is power.

How is your GAL? I don't think you can detach without GAL and truly it makes you obsess less and you will become a happier person

and that is attracting, as is a man with interests and hobbies and passions, it helps you bring a lot to the table.

Keep posting and keep on keeping on!

[aNewGuy]

It is so hard to treat her the way I should have been before, when she has filed for divorce! I am just not being very available to her right now. Not that she is really reaching out to me...

She had left a purse here. An old one with a broken clasp. It has been sitting on my dresser for some time. That along with other random odds and ends - some earrings, some makeup and some other things that a lady would enjoy but for some reason she left behind.

So today I filled the purse with a bunch of these items and strutted in to work with this very obviously women's purse over my shoulder like I owned it, walked up to her and handed it over. She thanked me very much for it and told me to text her to remind her to put some of my clothes (which she inadvertently took when she moved) into her car to bring to me tomorrow.

I haven't written her that text yet. I'm not ready to be texting back and forth with her when I am still reeling over all of this and trying to get my own life in order. She moved out and had me served with divorce papers at work and since this has left me feeling sad and pretty desperate and needy compared to my normal self, I really don't feel safe in engaging her in much conversation unless it is something that just happens naturally in passing or it is something which must be discussed.

Obviously I could change my thoughts on that, but I really want to be focused on taking care of me right now and it is tough - I don't want to hire a lawyer but feel your advice is right and will be doing so by this time next week.

So far as GAL activities are concerned:

1. I have gotten a "gym membership". Why the quotes? Because it's not really a gym membership. Gym membership is what I am calling my second job, which is working part time in a local big box home improvement store. I had applied at this place last December for a supervisory role. I had interviewed well for the job but in the end an internal candidate got the job. So when the hiring manager saw me in the aisles the week after my separation he asked me if I would be interested in part time work in their garden center. I told him yes - not because I need the money, but because I need the new scenery. It has been a good decision - I get to work independently, have already received a $250 bonus along with an award for some of my work there, and am getting a far better workout on most days than I would ever get in a gym because motivation does not exist for me personally in a gym.

2. I am taking care of my yard better these days.

3. Because I am taking better care of my house, I am able to entertain friends over here more often. I host bonfires in the backyard by night, and by day I have my buddies over for target practice.

4. There is still something missing. I guess I don't fit in to any easy category. It feels like GAL for me is plagued with too many options so none of the options ever get my time during the more routine times in life. I enjoy singing and climbing and photography and shooting and swimming and watching Netflix and airplane rides and hiking and yard work (some of it!) and entertaining and cooking and fixing things. I swear I either enjoy or have enjoyed all of these things in the last year, but on a day to day basis none of them seem to rise to the top to be that one reliable part of a good healthy GAL routine for me.

I want to renew my request for prayers for myself, my wife and my marriage. I would say that we have indeed made some progress in that we are having more positive interactions these days than we are negative ones, but there are still relatively few interactions.

I also want to add that it looks and feels to me like God is at work here. I had to report to jury duty here this morning. An old flame was there too. The chances of that occurring are pretty poor in this county. During the lunch break, we were both able to settle a couple of things that had been left hanging when we split up years ago. It also made me love and miss my wife that much more! Prayers needed. I have a lot more to learn and a lot more growing to do. Nowhere near out of the woods here, my bride is still not home!

[aNewGuy]

Indeed, if you do too much of this "no response", you might be enabling her to avoid actual costs that she'll probably face later on anyhow. Make sense?

Could you elaborate on this a bit? What sorts of actual costs are you describing here?

So you can GAL and Detach and move forward while treating her the way you wish you had before (without pursuing and yes that is possible)

^^THIS is something I am working on doing. I think my ego is public enemy number one here. Not sure yet how to keep THAT guy in check!

and without mixing it up with the painful ugly parts of this. Let the lawyers do their jobs. Refer her to your lawyer if she begins to seek more than you believe is reasonable and or if she gets upset.

Makes me see the value in spending money there rather than spending mental energy on all the stuff THEY could be talking about instead.

Referring her to your lawyer (or having hers call yours, etc) will also reduce the chance of a blow out with her.

When my h realized that a divorce would cost what it would cost, he got angry and he seemed to think that telling me he was "going to see a lawyer" would upset me.

It was just the opposite. I wanted him to hear a lawyer tell him some reality. (I told him to "Please see a lawyer asap so you don't have to take my word for it")

For me, seeing a lawyer was incredibly calming as I confirmed my hopes, not my fears, about how I would not be "on the streets with the kids"...

DO see a lawyer as soon as possible. You need not "do" anything but pay a lawyer for some time, but do get information. Truly knowledge is power.

Thank you for this advice. Along with other advice I have gotten recently, I understand now why I need to lawyer up.

How is your GAL? I don't think you can detach without GAL and truly it makes you obsess less and you will become a happier person

and that is attracting, as is a man with interests and hobbies and passions, it helps you bring a lot to the table.

^^ Working on this!
Keep posting and keep on keeping on!

[aNewGuy]

So this morning I received a text from my wife, she has received the paperwork I would need to sign for a divorce to be settled after our state's waiting period passes. She is asking for me to go sign it with her next week. Basically the paperwork states we have no children, and that each of us has all of our possessions in our possession. In other words, she is not asking for anything from me.

Here is the deal.... I want reconciliation, not divorce. If I go and sign the papers, then basically we both walk away scott free as far as possessions and future liabilities are concerned. If I do NOT go and sign the papers, then basically a judge WILL still grant the divorce, but can and will decide for us whatgoes where.

So financially it would be in my best interest to go sign, assuming that she will be doing this no matter what.

I am so tired, y'all! Seriously wish I could just put this nightmare to bed and wake up tomorrow with a new beginning to our marriage.

Not sure how to respond to her request for us to both go together next week to sign the papers. Basically, it does NOT MATTER leagally whether I sign them today or I sign them in July, the divorce cannot be final until mid July no matter what.

So not sure if I should just say, "Yes, I will go sign with you next week", or "No, you can go sign whenever you want and I will sign whenever I want". Or something along those lines.

For that matter, my attorney points out, I could actually go and file a motion to waive the waiting period in our state and we could be divorced tomorrow. She could do the same.

I am not sure how to respond to her on this. She is asking for my signature on divorce papers and to make her wait is "More of the same" behavior on my part, but to go sign immediately will look as though I actually want this, which I don't. But if I don't want to spend a fortune fighting this then signing is the financially correct thing to do. Here's the thing.... even if I fight it, she will still eventually get the divorce, but we will both just be much poorer and no idea if fighting it would make "the road home" a lot more bumpy.

So no idea how I will respond to this request for me to go sign next week. Again, financially dumb for me not to sign this...

[Winhamn]

Well, I don't have any answers for you.

I am in the same boat though. Wife wants a divorce, like yesterday, I don't want one at all.

It's really hell.

Hopefully someone more useful comes along to respond

[pilot]

Just remember, a divorce is just a piece of paper. 20% of all who D end up remarried to each other. If signing it protects you financially, vs not signing it and potentially exposing yourself, then sign it. If you do not have to sign it until mid July, then acknowledge that she wants to sign it next week and you you will go on our own when you have some time.

I know it seems like the end. Maybe it is, maybe it isnt. Just remember to keep the focus on being the best you possible. If your W is to want to reconcile, you need to be a person she wants to be with. Whether or not your signature is on a piece of paper is irrelevant.

Best of luck to you.

[bravo61]

sorry, divorce is not just a piece of paper. otherwise it wouldn't be such a big deal when people that divorce reconcile.

hold on as long as you can. there is still hope after divorce too. just not as much. not trying to be a negative nancy but i don't want to cause you to have those "expectations".

[aNewGuy]

Hey Pilot, Thanks for that. I find myself coming here to write about this situation and it's a great outlet for me to blog about this situation here.

It's been a tough couple of months, but I am felling some better every day. I agree - being the best person I can is the right response to all of this. I'm doing pretty well at it. I am slowly but surely building up strength physically and emotionally.

It continues to be a roller coaster... I can't believe how much I love this woman and how quickly a song can come on the radio and make a grown man cry - or laugh - in remembrance of some special moment or event we associated with it.

My second job is far more physically demanding than any other job I have had in the past seven years. I am starting to see the results of this new found physical regimen from my second job in the mirror, and starting to feel it in my head too. The confidence is slowly building and I look forward to more of the same in the future.

One day, I hope my wife will decide to call me up. We still have all of the holidays this year, and all of the family events we used to go to together, and many more reasons why I will be missed by her in the future. I would say that if ever there was a case where a divorce might not actually be the end, mine is it.

What a learning experience this all is... I think perhaps it is time for me to pick back up Divorce Remedy and re-read it through eyes that are a couple months further down the road and see how differently it reads today compared to in February.

Thank you for your feedback, as always it is an answered prayer.

ANd Winhamn - hang in there man, I will be saying a prayer for you - and your wife - tonight. I know the hell you speak of on a first name basis!

[aNewGuy]

So, I hired an attorney to review the case. My wife is not asking for anything more, asset wise, from me.

What she is doing, however, is continuing to pester me about the papers. Every time she writes me a text message about something else, anything... it is followed up with questions about when I will sign the papers, have I read the papers, did I get the papers to my attorney (since I just hired one, her lawyer did not know he needs to communicate with my lawyer), can we go together to sign the papers (Yes, she asked me that!), etc. about the papers!

I cannot begin to describe what a knot it puts in my chest to see these messages coming from my wife! Yesterday I was doing quite well at work and having a very good day when she again asked me something about the papers!

I responded by saying, "Look, there is nothing I can do in our state from getting what you want, and there is nothing that either one of us can do to make it go any faster, geez! What's the rush?"

Obviously, she responded angrily. She said she felt slighted that I had an attorney because she was still the same person and wouldn't cheat me and that it's already hard enough that she has to see me every day while trying to work through this.

A little while later she wrote again and said she was sorry she got angry.

I responded to that saying "How come, it was honest. I am sorry you are hurting".

She wrote back to that saying she is not necessarily hurting but that the failure of our marriage does hurt and looking at me and knowing that this is not what I want makes her feel guilty. She goes on to say that she made the right choice but that doesn't mean it was an easy one.

It really is hard to focus on GAL when all this is occurring, but I am liking the fact that while she is talking on facebook about her gym membership, I am quietly walking several miles and doing a ton of rigorous exercise (moved about 5000 pounds of block and soil by hand the other day) at my second job. I can't believe the difference I am already starting to see in the mirror, at first I was tired and literally in pain but now I am actually seeking out those tasks that require strength. It's a far cry from the office jobs I have held over the past seven years!

So here is what's next: I can either sit back and not go sign these papers until they absolutely must be signed (sometime in July). Or I can go in and sign them right away. The only thing she is asking for that I don't agree with is the divorce itself. In fact, with her being in such a hurry, I think I might protect my interests financially ...by asking the judge to waive the waiting period. She really expects me to make this difficult on her - that's not my goal, my goal is to reconcile. But if she is going to continue stinking up all of our more pleasant interactions by talking about these papers every time, why should I not just go ahead and give her what she wants while the only thing she wants is nothing? I guess I just fear that waiting this thing out till the end of July with her repeatedly asking me about these papers is risky for me - 1st because something might change and cause her to ask for things that aren't hers, and 2nd because I might literally have a heart attack and die because of all the stress related to even thinking about signing these papers!

I guess basically I am saying there is nothing to fight in this besides the divorce itself, and in this state there is no stopping it. Slowing it down will only serve to tick her off, right? I can't make her stay, she does not want to do counseling so asking the court to require it would likely only make her resent me, and right now the agreement she is proposing would be approved by the court and would properly cover both of our behinds.

Ugh.

Writing that out makes me feel like perhaps my best option here is still to just delay signing the papers and tell her she will just have to trust me that if July gets here and she still wants them signed, I will do so.

Along with a note asking her to not ask me about them again until that time comes.

[aNewGuy]

I'm thinking along the lines of if you love someone, set them free.

And if I ever have another chance with her, then never ever forget what a tough time it was without her!

I'm going outside to read a few chapters by the fire. Good night everyone, I will be saying a prayer for God to work in your lives tonight!