I am not terribly sure where to go with the attraction aspect. It was never about not doing housework (cooking, cleaning, laundry, child care, home improvements, groceries) or things for her, aside from seemingly doing too much of it (her claim of insufficiency). Maybe I was doing too much . . .
Yeah, that's more of what I was alluding to. While most (all?) women WANT -- and rightfully expect -- their husbands to do more around the house, it's generally an attraction turn-off if the man does TOO MUCH, especially if it's coming across as supplicating or as a "mental transaction" to get something in return (like sex).
I would try to take one of your old "beta" behaviors a week and replace it with one new "alpha" behavior, as an experiment. Then monitor the results.
Thank you Starsky. She does realize that I do love her, but she does not feel like she can reciprocate, that the love she has for me is more like family or a friend, but not a husband. She says that she enjoys being with me, raising our S3 together, but just cannot get to the physical aspect. She says that there was no passion in our relationship. A lot of what she says, makes it seem like she has not idea what happens in long term relationships, though I am not going to claim myself to know everything. I know I was not always there for her emotionally, though tried. Mounting resentments did cause some issues with both of us. Work and life stressors, they happen.
Any suggestions, and I am all ears. If keep doing what I am doing and be patient is the answer, then that works for me too.
Been here.
Romance her. Lots of non-sexual interaction. Eye contact, gentle touches. Affirming texts through-out the day. She doesn't like surprises, then don't surprise her. Work on making sure she knows she's the only woman in the world for you. The things we husbands all need to work on. Basically, continue working on being a husband only a fool would leave. The rest will straighten itself out providing she has an awesome sponsor and she sticks to her part of the plan.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
Who are the ones who lost trust with her? Stable and loyal relation partners, or singles who were outraged at the depth of her actions?
Stable loyal relation partners - Me, her past friends, and her entire family, especially her mother. All of her energy seems to have gone to her new friends from AA, apparently especially OM. Avoided everyone because of this.
Originally Posted By: DaddyLongShanks
When they are double lifing like this, in the manner required to perform a successful affair, they can literally "say" anything which is required to cause an outcome.
Yes this is the battle I have been attempting to overcome. The big reason why I do not trust anything from her.
Originally Posted By: DaddyLongShanks
Your still banging someone who was just recently with someone else. You have to look @ it the way she does.
I understand.
Originally Posted By: DaddyLongShanks
She probably thinks love is like an obsession or being a fan or seeing a fine dressed man in the club. She doesn't know what real love is like, true of 99% of affair participants. Love is not lust, love is passion, love is love.
Possibly. Either that or she does not understand long term relationships/stages of marriage, or both. It is either the things she says are true 100% with her to me and always have been, or she is justifying her recent actions. I would like to think the latter and that is what I have been doing.
Originally Posted By: DaddyLongShanks
You should probably participate in a few of these sessions to guage his viewpoint. Alot of the counselours shoot after the immediate reaction of making someone "feel better", so they may very well justify their foul actions.
Are you saying the IC?
Originally Posted By: DaddyLongShanks
You don't need patience here. Make her suffer consequence and loss. Cheaters don't understand anything when they are supplicated.
Best of luck to you and I'm not trying to bring you down, just bring you back out into yourself. You should never tolerate anyone "cheating" on you unless you went into it and decided it together with an open mind. It's a very painful and hurtful situation to endure.
Have you guys not agreed to a full transparency plan??
Not to the degree I am comfortable with. Keep revising because new methods come into mind, but they can always find ways to get around everything...
Biggest problem is with AA. I am supposed to be supportive of her getting better and encouraging her to go to meetings and be in lots of contact with her sponsor. Who is to say she is actually doing this or not? Who is to say OM decides to show up to her new meetings? Who is to say she is not continuing to go to her original meeting times when I am not home? Not hard to send messages through other AA friends. They all seem to know everyone else.
It is not necessarily the electronic contacting at this point. It is when I am not home and she is going to the things that she needs to go to (mandated for nothing to occur to her professional license), or claims she is going to (meet with sponsor, different meetings with other people).
She did mention that she wanted to go back to her original meeting time to "strictly be with the girls" there because she misses them. I voiced my disapproval (though I do believe her to a degree there - I am calling it a half truth). "There is an understanding" (between her and OM), uh huh, that is believable.
I am not terribly sure where to go with the attraction aspect. It was never about not doing housework (cooking, cleaning, laundry, child care, home improvements, groceries) or things for her, aside from seemingly doing too much of it (her claim of insufficiency). Maybe I was doing too much . . .
Yeah, that's more of what I was alluding to. While most (all?) women WANT -- and rightfully expect -- their husbands to do more around the house, it's generally an attraction turn-off if the man does TOO MUCH, especially if it's coming across as supplicating or as a "mental transaction" to get something in return (like sex).
I would try to take one of your old "beta" behaviors a week and replace it with one new "alpha" behavior, as an experiment. Then monitor the results.
Starsky
Makes sense. Thank you.
I grew up in a house where we had chores actually enforced, and I have been a rather independent person my entire life, and I do enjoy cooking. One of those things that comes second nature, along with my work ethic. In the past I have left things up to her, continually asked her to accomplish them, but she never would. I would wait a couple weeks, depending on the task, then just do it asking her why it never got done. I can clean the entire house in a couple hours. She takes two weeks to fold laundry. A lot of this, I attributed to her depression and chemical use. More recently I learned that her mother would not really enforce any cleaning or chores with her or her sister. She would say to do something, but then an hour later she would do it herself. W has a strong work ethic when she has a job, at home is a different story.
The laundry, I brought the hamper of clean clothes up to the living room and left them for her to fold. Lived out of that for a little while. She finally did fold them over the weekend. There is a huge pile of dishes and the dishwasher needs to be emptied. We were laughing over it last night actually. She can do that.
I will push the groceries when that comes up too. Request her to cook more often. She does make good food, when she actually does do it. She does complain about how small the kitchen is. I told her I would create more counter space for her to cook. Started on some of that this past weekend.
I do home improvements, everything outside, financially support the family, and make sure my stuff is cleaned up. Maybe I should just regress a little and see if she starts getting on me about not doing enough. I do not have a problem taking care of the child. I rather enjoy that normally.
Romance her. Lots of non-sexual interaction. Eye contact, gentle touches. Affirming texts through-out the day. She doesn't like surprises, then don't surprise her. Work on making sure she knows she's the only woman in the world for you. The things we husbands all need to work on. Basically, continue working on being a husband only a fool would leave. The rest will straighten itself out providing she has an awesome sponsor and she sticks to her part of the plan.
This sounds good. Thank you
I have been doing those things when I can, especially after our last talk. Not the text thing too much. I can do more though.
Her sponsor does seem good. Agrees with W's "plan" (so W says) and, in light of her recent mindset, has apparently started her back at the first step of the 12. Hopefully this is truthful and sticks with it.
Without complete NC and a rock-solid transparency plan (and no, none are 100% foolproof, but you're going for that 95%) you're asking for trouble.
Since you're well familiar with AA (I am too), you understand the concept: separate the addict from the source of their addiction.
100% NC and full transparency is for BOTH the formerly wayward spouse AND the betrayed spouse. Not all infidelity recidivism is of the "not willing" variety -- some is "not able." You can have a perfectly well-intentioned spouse, but without a strong NC and transparency plan around them, they may soon find themselves unable to stay away from their affair partner.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
separate the addict from the source of their addiction.
Yes. Good line. I have come across the replacement of addiction with another in my head for awhile by now.
I will up the strength of it tonight. Continue to mention that it is going to take a long time to gain trust in her again, and the more she does to alleviate that mental strain now, the better. She knows that the most important thing for me to have right now is trust. Without my trust, her entire family will have no trust, regardless of whether I say anything to them or not.
Jefe, I have not. I have met her only once. I do know who she is and can get into contact with her if I need to. I should have gotten her number when I met her, did not think about it. Good suggestion though. Thank you.
