Groan, sorry to hear this V. I'd say stay strong but it's clear to me you are already very strong and have a determined plan to make sure you are not in a situation to have to face any kind of abuse.
Positive thoughts to you. Stay safe.
(((((Vanilla)))))
Edz
M:44, W:46, S:10 M 13 years, T 15 BD:23/7/2014 W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014 My new place: 21/11/2014 W/S back to flat 22/11/2014 W coming closer, talking 4/2015 Piecing 5/2015 Moving in again 6/2015
V, just back home now. I'll post an update over the next couple of days. For now I wanted to say ugh! re recent exchange with H. Like Mozza, I feel your situation has wandered into territory that I am very unfamiliar with so it's hard to offer any sage advice. You have certainly opened my eyes to abusive behaviour.
H 37 Me 36 Together 15 years Married 5 years No kids BD Apr 2014 H moved out 2 Jun 2014
Yeah, stanrdard issue behaivour round here. Complete for my h.
Betcha $50 well � that he doesn't even remember he's said any of it and will have some very reasonable justifcation of why h did what he did and why v caused it.
M 46 h54 Both married before T 11y Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads! Ms 18 hs 26
V, just back home now. I'll post an update over the next couple of days. For now I wanted to say ugh! re recent exchange with H. Like Mozza, I feel your situation has wandered into territory that I am very unfamiliar with so it's hard to offer any sage advice. You have certainly opened my eyes to abusive behaviour.
Gan, if my sitch makes anyone see the abuse in their own sitch then I shall be comfortable knowing this has helped others apart from me.
H is of course denying the abuse, spot on Gg, except that V has recordings of it.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 03/23/1505:48 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Groan, sorry to hear this V. I'd say stay strong but it's clear to me you are already very strong and have a determined plan to make sure you are not in a situation to have to face any kind of abuse.
Positive thoughts to you. Stay safe.
(((((Vanilla)))))
Edz
I just need to keep reinforcing my boundaries, strongly...........
I now have a clearer idea on that, this requires more than just ordinary effort.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
originally posted on thread 9, I am struggling to find ways of dealing with Verbal Abuse.
The exercise is in a book which describes abusive communications, so I am journaling my responses here.
These were Vs original thoughts but actually did not really know if I was correct at the time I wrote it.
These have been inserted from two or three sources and after discussion with VSO. I need practice sessions but I will keep adding as I find responses work or not!.
Identify the abuses in your R and prevents you from being your authentic self. (V added the scoring: I like scores)
On a scale of 1 to 10 identify how you enforce your boundaries.
Blaming Level 1 abuse : refusal of responsibility This is the most frequent abuse tactic, intended to control, put down or make another responsible. How much do you accept blame in your R? H=3, V=2 V no longer allows H to blame her, if she is in the wrong she apologises and corrects or atones (12 step 8). No longer works for H.
Response that is best : "Stop accusing and blaming me immediately." "stop it!" "I do not want to hear that again." "You are talking to someone you should respect." " Do not say that in that way."
No justification, these are stories made up by H about my motives. Explaining or justifying continues the abuse cycle. If the criticism is valid that can be acknowledged later. This is like throwing a rock through a window, stopping the thrower from doing more damage. [
Name calling Level 2 abuse: control Insulting and bullying. How much do you use this tactic and accept it in your R? H=3, V=1 V walks away now, screaming banshee used to return insult for insult. No more, enormous progress on this one.
Best response: "Stop that, do not call me names, ever." "I do not want to hear you call me names again ever." "This is inappropriate."
Raging abusive anger/aggression Intimidation Level 6 abuse: attack Designed to intimidate and control. How much anger is in your R? H=4 V=2 V gets annoyed but parks it. H has calmed down a lot since this has happened. H used to use this to get his own way.
According to VSO, the most dangerous of all. Get away immediately and if necessary with evasion. Just leave.
If slight control " Stop, please talk to me calmly." " Do not raise your voice to me." Pay no attention to the words, look at the tone and posture. If threatened : "Stop threatening me." "I do not want to hear this." " Leave me alone." " I am leaving now."
Covert aggressive manipulation Level 4 abuse: unexpected Different from passive aggression. A power play using charm, implied reward, compliments, suggested punishment or withholding, helplessness, guilt, shame,self-depreciation, empty apology or playing victim. A manipulator may appear non aggressive and act aggrieved. Response is guilt, defensive confusion and capitulation. How active is this component in your R? H=10 V=2 This is the new H playbook, dropped the other tactic and this is the new and latest leading. V is often not observant enough to notice and she wants to believe H.
Counter measures need investigating.
Silent treatment, be matter of fact "I am very bored with this and am going to leave."
Sit with headphones More work needed on this, I still do not fully understand the best way to deal with it.
Ordering level 3 abuse: threats Instead of requests instructing, treating another like a 'slave' How much ordering or instruction is in your R? H=1, V= 0 This just does not work with V although H would try it.
Best answer "who are you ordering about?", "please ask nicely" or "I make my own decisions". If uses we as in "we are going" then response is "that is not what I had in mind".
Judging and criticising Level 1 abuse: lack of responsibility Evaluating, giving unwanted advice, and telling others what they 'should do'? How much criticism and judgement do you accept to keep your R? H=4, V=7 V is very sensitive to H criticisms although she does not react. She is also likely to impute the wrong motives every time to H. That is judgement but she does not criticise much to H directly. H judges everyone and everything, nothing is good enough for H. H expects perfection. V finds this rather amusing.
Needs work by V, V needs to find more that H is doing right. V also sits in judgement and criticises herself too much. She is kinder to others even H than she is to V.
These have been real blows to V self esteem. Constant and endless Defining another is real boundary infringement.
Suggested responses "do you hear yourself" "stop judging me" "cut that out, enough already" "that is not acceptable" "nonsense" " keep your views to yourself" "that is my business" " that is not your concern, it is mine" then disengage, further discussion promotes further abuse.
Play, jokes, sarcasm and teasing Level 1 abuse: denial Wit, ironic, overt praise and always painful to the recipient. Concealed Judgement. How much smiling judgement do you endure in your R? H=8, V=2 H when called on his words or behaviour often says "it is a joke, where is your sense of humour?". Very hard to counter, V needs more techniques to counter this. Considering more IC in March.
This is a I am better than you or at your expense and is very immature. Do try to explain what is unfunny or inappropriate or ask why the 'joke' was said . Do not laugh or wonder about the maturity.
Best response: " I wonder now you have said that, put me down, interrupted me, do you feel more important? I want you to think about it" then disengage. " This conversation is over" or "I will get back to you on that".
Opposing Level 1 abuse: lack of responsibility Treats as adversary and argues against anything, perceptions, opinions, thoughts and feelings. Says "no" outright without discussion closing down constructive conversation. How much opposing is in your R? H=2, V=6 H gets very few requests from V, but not really one of H characteristics. H LL is Acts of Service. V now has a tendency to say no to H almost without thinking and this needs review
Counters feelings or perceptions, deliberately misconstrues, refutes that you have said something. Best response is "stop", "let me repeat my statement".
Do not explain the view or this too will be countered, no arging, "I do not see it that way" "I have a right to my own views". "Hold it, can you repeat that or write it down". "Stop countering me". "As you say". Then leave.
Blocking and diverting Level 1 abuse: denial Abort conversations, make accusations and effectively say "shut up" How often is discussion closed down in your R? H=4, V=1 V talks too much sometimes but has had to learn the difference between blocking, closing and evading. parking is V choice of response. H choice expression "do not go there" but V defers and parks and often the need to boundary enforce is needed. Does not happen very often these days. Much better on this.
This is thwarting in the worst way. Keep repeating the request (fogging) (An answer which is "no" or "I do not know " is neither blocking nor diverting.)
Instead say " you are creating a diversion" and "if you do not know then I reserve the right to find out".
Discounting Trivialising and belittling Level 1 abuse: denial Minimising or trivialising feelings, thoughts or experience. Suggests feelings are not valid. How often are thoughts, feelings or experience discounted in your R? H=3, V=1 Simply does not work and therefore not used by either H or V.
Devalues the self. "I certainly do not feel supported when I hear this" "I have heard all I need to hear".
Undermining and interrupting Level 4 abuse: accusing then criticising Undermining with statements such as "you do not know what you are talking about" speaking on another's behalf without permission How much are undermining and interrupting evident in your R? H=8, V=9 Oh yes a big one this, V wants to do more work on this as H is vulnerable in the work environment. V can be interrupting others at work. V has identified a big issue to work on. However this is not as evident in her personal relationship now, but is a work issue.
This is cruel and covert. "I do not like your attitude" "that was low" " stop, cut that out" "this is the opposite of fun" .
Lying, forgetting and denying Level 1 abuse denial of responsibility Concious lying is manipulation. Addicts and compulsives may deny agreements or promises, a conversation took place, even prior abuse. They may ever declare love and caring. Crazy making, referred to as 'gas lighting' . Particularly evident in gambling and hidden stages of addiction. Can even mean lying by omission. Are you aware of lying and denying in your R? H=10, V=1 As far as V is concerned H is a master at this, V tends not to believe anything that H says without independent verification. H has even lied at GA openly, not disclosing the length of time he has been gambling. Nothing V can do on this but try to separate the wheat from the chaff. Perhaps identifying areas where H may not lie and giving more trust. In 12 steps we learn that love is possible without trust.
Do not believe the denial. Do not say how this hurts frightens or disturbs you. Never try to explain or understand why the lie etc has occurred. No anger, use of authority will help, no try to explain. V did not make H anything, "mad" "hurt" "abandoned" or any other thing. Best response "this is crazy making", "stop it", "I do not believe you. Do not let this happen again"
there is one form of abuse that is not in the above. that is withholding which is a level 5 form of abuse. it is very irrational, no fight, no argument, and no anger. A refusal to respond, no contact whilst active in a R. Whilst carrying on conversations with friends, discover plans only through friends. This is shunning and distain could be evidence of an A. Exceedingly toxic.
Apologies for the long post but I wanted to gather my thoughts all together in one post.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
So sorry you are dealing with all of this, but hang in there, V. You really are doing fabulously well! Good for you. Stay strong. Hugs, prayers and positive thoughts heading your way from here!
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
