Complex No. 6 - The turtle and the rabbit

[Starsky309]

Honestly? I think this comes across as needy, controlling and smothering. I am NOT telling you to leave your own house, but I'm talking more about the words you are using and the stance you are taking. You're basically INVALIDATING everything she feels, and saying "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I love you and so I'm not letting go. I still believe in us."

To a wayward wife, that is like NAILS ON A BLACKBOARD to them. Now, you may not CARE about that, but if your goal is to still try and re-attract her, I would NOT advocate going about it this way.

My two cents.


Starsky

[Complex]

And now she told me she contacted a lawyer. And also started threatening me with my greencard. Just wow.
I thought I was very straight forward and calm in the conversation. I don't know...how did this look from the outside?
We continued the conversation for a bit and I think I did an ok job. I'll post some of it later.

It was rough but my detachment is there and it feels sooo good to take the hgh road. I'm really trying also not to sound passive aggressive, but somewhere I must have failed due to her responses. She even tried to bribe me, move out or....greencard. To this I just made clear in not letting myself bribe.
And that I cannot talk to her like this.

Oh man. Super tough BUT SOMEHOW I FEEL GOOD!!! I might not have done the best thing DB wise. Maybe I could have worded things differently, and clearly do more of what works failed because this didn't work at all, but at least I feel good about myself taking the high road. Any criticism is welcome tho. I'm sure I'm still not fully doing/saying the rift things.
Maybe I shouldn't even get into those discussions but for a fact I know that works even worse bc it's building up extreme frustration for W.

[Complex]

Starsky, what should I do instead?
Give in? Move out? Say nothing? Validate more? I'm lost what to say in those situations. She is putting so much pressure on me in those conversations.

Purpose of this is to actually gain respect back for what I stand for. By consistency.
She knows I love her and think differently, it's obvious. ALL forms of reattaching her failed utterly so far. I did a lot of things right, moving forward with a lot of actions, not words. Of course there's no real consistency to it because it's only a month or so but I have to make clear: she made up her mind. Before she doesn't hit fkn rock bottom herself...after i am home, NOTHING is gonna change her mind. Not Amt time soon. Its a fact.
But I utterly fail responding in the best way to her.

[Complex]

*after I'm gone (moved out).

What everyone told me here in the very beginning: life has to teach her a lesson.

I don't mind her knowing that I love her and that I believe in my marriage. That's what I think. I don't want to play games anymore!!!! I stand for my believes. Period. Eventually I will gain a lot of respect for that. For myself, from others and one day from W. She doesn't even believe I love her truly. That I'm selfish.
Only if I truly stand up for myself she might realize one day. I tend to not come across the right way. Language barrier maybe and problems expressing myself the right way.

My W is stubborn like hell, and she can't deal properly with stressful situations. She goes out of control like this.

So I'm taking the high road, stand for what I believe in, but give her the freedom she wants to have. I'll let her go, what can I do? I can make myself feel better, do the right thing, so I can be in peace with myself.

And that eventually IS attractive! In my opinion.

[Complex]

Every day, every discussion with her..she gets more distant for me personally.
I feel incredibly distant and I started doubting again that I actually really want to save my marriage.
I just don't deserve this. Especially now when I see how much I have developed personally. Being a better person, taking the high road..and W is continuing with NO regret, NO change, whatsoever...even more just trying to pick fights, present herself and me in a negative light. This is not the person I know. I really thought she is one that is able to reflect on things. It's so hard. But I already showed so much patience, and I have some more, but I do not know for how long.

[Complex]

I seriously need a game plan. Because I think my marriage is now at the very very brink of D. She wants to move on ASAP. As soon as I'll get my greencard she will file and proceed.
I probably ran into a few cheese less tunnels today and had a bit of a throwback discussing with her. She is a genius throwing me into a defensive position. But I feel better because I simply feel stronger, doing the right thing and handle things very maturely.

But what now? She's gonna file. Nothing, absolutely nothing or no one will stop her anymore. I just know it, and my gut feeling is usually very dependable. Plus she said so, and she means it. Go ahead and tell me it's an assumption. I'll be stubborn and tell you I know better.

OK, my sitch, retrospectively and looking at my own future: WHAT should I do???? Since I keep running into cheeseless tunnels during Amy serious form of communication and nothing what I do or did, action wise, consistently or not, works. AT WHAT POINT should I change my strategy and/or give in?
I feel like it would be beneficial if I start cooperating finding solutions and not stand in the way of the D or LS anymore. I can stretch it, make it painful and stressful or start cooperating on a level that doesn't cross my boundaries, let her leave and move on, let her learn her own lessons, move on myself and if it happens that we both grow and our paths cross again and the love revives, cool. If not, cool too..at least there will be some sort of a cut. Question remains if I should shoot for LS, which is the better option if I don't want D. But it will leave me with hopes. This will become a very serious and hard decision for me.
Right now it just feels like a fight who is stronger in his opinion, not beneficial for neither one. And since it's only a question of time until she proceeds with legal action, my time is limited. Need advice...or am I overthinking again because of what happened today? I took a stand, but just to see how closed she still is.

[zew]

Complex, I feel you are still acting tactically rather than stragtegically.

But what now? She's gonna file. Nothing, absolutely nothing or no one will stop her anymore.

Listen to yourself here, because this part is true: There is nothing you can do to stop her. Stop resisting. Stop trying to make a decision between S and D. That is entirely her choice - she's going to do what she's going to do.

We keep telling you that the only thing that may attract her back is an independent Complex that is getting on with his life. You have made good progress in that, but you keep wanting to show that off to her to convince her that she is making the wrong move.

Unfortunately, Complex, she has to come to that conclusion on her own, and you trying to convince her is counterproductive.

Loslassen! Sie solten, und Sie mussen.

[Complex]

I agree. I finally feel the detachment I need, but I didn't really let her go yet.
The thing is it feels like such a burden to find the right balance between letting go and cooperation. She basically expects cooperation, or she gets very very frustrated and angry.
She told me yesterday that she wants to get D done asap because she wants to move on with her life and that she is so frustrated because she wants to see some kind of a schedule when we are going to separate physically. Sounds like she is in a limbo herself and this stresses her greatly.

If I could 'convince' her of a LS instead of a D, that would be very beneficial. Health insurance...plus it's still not 100% final. D is. So I think it's ok to move that direction instead of letting her decide it alone.

So part of showing my maturity etc and changing the image she has of me (which is ridiculously bad right now it feels like) would be to at least work on some kind of separation plan, make some financial calculations etc, thinking more about my own future...plus I have to truly let her go. Which I thought I did, but appearantly not enough.
What I did the last couple weeks was building trust back and be easy going and upbeat with her, to at least create a better atmosphere and slowly reconcile at least what's left of our friendship. I was very cautios. But now it more seems like even that is completely destroyed...by her. She wants to get away from me.
She gave me a feeling as if I would be such a bad person. This crosses my boundaries because I'm not going to let her talk me down like this. I know what I am worth and what a good person I am. Not going to let that anyone take away from me anymore.

And honestly. I did/am doing all the right things action wise. Communication wise I'm still a little cheeseless. So I have to be careful.
Time to focus some more on my things and blending out the M.
Right now I DO all these things for myself, but I also do them because I want to save my M. Maybe I should give that up and be completely over my M. The end.
I think this would reallybhelp me. Whatever happens then, no one knows anyway.

[Complex]

We made 'friends' again yesterday and W was more friendly and I actually learned one more time how to understand her better.
I can really see why she thinks we are not made for each other.
The discussions we had the last couple days really showed that we talk around each other still. Wheh there is just the slightest of heat we cannot communicate properly. We are on such a different level. Still I'm trying, she's blocking then.
Still in my opinion nothing for me personally to give up already, but we all know that.
Hard part: making friends with her makes me love her. Seeing the person she can be doesn't help me letting her go. it was easier to not like her...but that's always the easier way. Love is the harder one.

Good I have a DB coach session on Monday. I feel a little lost right now...not sure what my 'strategy' should be...not my tactics.
...besides continuing my own stuff..

[Starsky309]

Your strategy should be to build yourself into the best man and the best potential husband for someone (if being married is what you enjoy) that you can. You pray that that's with your wife, but you don't focus on it -- you focus on YOU.

Even your recent post of 3/21 is still WAY too much about her, your statement at the end of it notwithstanding.


Starsky