Newbie needs advice and encouragement

[Kramer]

Kramer, I am not a vet. All I can tell you is I feel for you. It is hard to know what to do. But I have just recently found out how to start thinking about myself in this mess and my children. My wife is throwing the guilt trip on me also. I really got it tonight when I told her my plans for the next week. But I am thinking of myself now just like she has thought about herself all this time. I have also come to terms with whatever happens. I don't want a divorce either. But I also don't want to be someone plan b or share my wife with someone else. Maybe you should decide what YOU want. Not sure if that helps, but we are here for you. Hopefully some of the vets will help you out also.

Joe,

Thanks for chiming in. I agree that I need to start doing things for myself, and to quit thinking as a married person. It is so hard to do, because that's what I identify myself as. Definitely a learning process.

[raliced]

Is it best to go COMPLETELY dark? Part of me worries that this will push her away once and for all, but then again, she's pretty much gone already.

Regarding lawyer, no I do not have one yet. Our case is so straightforward that it doesn't make a lot of financial sense to spend $5000 on a lawyer. However, it would allow me to defer the legal conversations and get me out of the loop.

Kramer- I'm no Vet and would defer to one here - but the conversations with your wife don't seem to be helping anything, right? I'd be inclined to at least try more darkness.

As to the lawyer, yes your situation may be straight forward. But as an outsider reading about you retrieving an SUV by removing the steering wheel lock and her sending her son to retrieve it...I dunno....that sounds like lawyer territory to me.

[Kramer]

raliced,

You make a lot of sense. I have been dealing with such a high level of dysfunction within her family for so long that this just seems normal. It obviously is not. That's also part of my frustration in our sitch. I am as straight laced and non-confrontational as they come, and have stood by her and provided emotional support for years during legal issues with her kids. I have always justified my actions by rationalizing that you support your family, no matter what. In reality, I'm beginning to realize that our moral compasses are polar opposites. She was always a loving, kind, and sweet person when we were married, but perhaps this is the real person underneath?

[Kramer]

Well, it finally happened. I got officially served divorce papers yesterday. She had filed on Jan 9, 2015, and I had held out hope that she was having second thoughts about going through with it. In retrospect, that was pretty stupid of me. I should have been looking at the facts: she moved out into her own place, she is still with OM, and she has not made any attempts to reconcile with me.

We had a financial meeting yesterday, and it was the first time I have seen her in over a month. She brought the process server with her because she knew that I would be present and would not be able to leave. Score 1 for her! We made it through the meeting, and I was cordial but not overly friendly (especially after being served papers).

We walked to our cars together, and when we got to her car, she became tearful and asked why I was so cold. I calmy looked at her, and said "Really? You actually have the nerve to ask me that?" More tears, and a lengthy conversation ensued thereafter. She apologized for having an affair and lying to me, and said that I didn't deserve that treatment. I apologized for my emotional distance that led to her feelings, and opened the door for her affair. Of course, I was hoping for some sort of spark or epiphany that she wanted to fix things between us, but it never came. She went on and on about how tough it was for her financially to live alone, and how busy she was, and how she was sleeping on an air mattress...BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. I reminded her that it was HER that initiated this whole process and had the affair, but of course it did not register with her. It was a cathartic conversation, and involved tears on both our parts. We ended with a hug and went our separate ways.

I have replayed the interaction many times since then. Initially, I was thinking that there was some doubts entering into her head regarding divorce and OM, as evidenced by the crying, expressions of loneliness and sadness, and her living alone vs full time with OM. But then, I realized that she purposefully brought her process server with her to the meeting. If she were truly having doubts about divorce, then she would not have done that. I suspect that the tears and talk of "loneliness" were all script, and meant to play on my heartstrings, and keep me hanging on. And it worked, at least for the short term.

I also find it interesting that she remains adamant that we not get the lawyers involved, and she insists that we can work things out between us without lawyers. A quick review of her papers indicate that she expects me to take on all the debt and for us each to keep our own retirements. She conveniently omitted her $150,000 403B account, while listing my military retirement and asking for half, even though we were only married for the last 2 years of military service. Obviously, she is trying to stick it to me. California is a community property 50/50 state, and our case is very straightforward without biological children or property. I really do not relish the thought of hiring a lawyer since the end result will be the same, but it looks like I will not have a choice since there is such a disparity.

I am hoping others can offer their opinion regarding this most recent interaction. Am I wrong to write this off as guilt on her part and following script? Am I wrong in turning things over to lawyer and completely pissing her off, and driving her further away? Am I missing signs of her having second thoughts?

Sandi, I am hoping you will weigh in as well, with your first hand knowledge and experience with WW.

Thank you all!

[Starsky309]

Hire the best, most bada$$, cutthroat "men's rights" family law attorney you can afford.

You won't regret it. Remain cordial and courteous with her, but refer EVERYTHING to your attorney.

There's a reason why they put that little "v" between the names of the parties. Ours is, by its design, an adversarial legal system.

I'm sorry, Kramer. At least you have clarity now.

starsky

[Sotto]

Hi Kramer, it doesn't read to me as though she's having second thoughts right now. In the longer term though - who knows - D or not.

Presumably you are going to see a L as you have concerns about some of what she is suggesting?

Sorry you had a tough day....

[Starsky309]

Am I wrong in turning things over to lawyer and completely pissing her off, and driving her further away?

Kramer, she just served you with divorce papers. How much "further away" can she be, really?

NO, she's not having second thoughts. Don't keep making the same mistake you've been making since January. Accept it for what it is, and move on. I know it's killing you, but it will NOT kill you and in fact you will emerge STRONGER from this, I promise you.

[Kramer]

I hear what you are all saying, and I know it is the correct advice. I just keep fixating on the bread crumbs that she drops. She says she doesn't want anybody at work to know she is divorcing. She wants to keep my last name. She wants to keep our family gym membership together and sees no problem with us exercising at the same time. She wants to keep our car insurance together because it is cheaper (for her, not me). She talks about never wanting or seeing herself divorced at this age (and yet it is her who initiated it). And of course, the tears.

She only sees OM every other weekend and her kids want nothing to do with him. He doesn't like animal or travelling, both of which my wife and I love. I'm taller and better looking than he is. And yet, here we are. WTF???

[Starsky309]

She needs to know that if you're out, you're OUT. If you divorce (and she has now, officially, FIRED you as her husband) you will be of course seeking a new relationship at some point, and no emotionally healthy woman is going to tolerate a boyfriend who's still totally entangled -- emotionally and financially -- with his ex-wife, beyond certain realistic necessities. You should tell her that this isn't what you wanted, but she should understand that when you're done, you're DONE.

Do you have a good attorney yet? When I asked you previously, I think you just said you were getting legal advice on the side, from a friend or something. It's time to retain a bulldog, and protect your interests.


Starsky

[Sotto]

"I just keep fixating on the bread crumbs that she drops. She says she doesn't want anybody at work to know she is divorcing. She wants to keep my last name. She wants to keep our family gym membership together and sees no problem with us exercising at the same time. She wants to keep our car insurance together because it is cheaper (for her, not me). She talks about never wanting or seeing herself divorced at this age.."

Kramer, I think the above are:

a) Indicators of her own negative feelings about D, and embarrasment at being D

b) Convenience and saving money

None of what you post above should give you reason to hope she may be having second thoughts. I would get myself a good L and stop worrying about what she may think..